This thread seems to be hijacked by Glenrock, but it is pretty relevant to all of NSW as I believe the success (or failure) of Glenrock will shape what happens elsewhere.
To be honest, all I am hearing in here is that you were never going to be happy with the Glenrock POM unless the status quo was maintained.
Where we got to involved compromise from both sides. It had nothing to do with legal fears about user conflict. That issue really didn't come up from any of the user groups. NPWS have never discussed it with me, other than to request we don't have gap jumps.
The issue with the south according to NPWS related to it being a lot less disturbed than the north with a lot more remnant pre-European bushland. It also is the area that has the higher concentration of environmental groups working. Thats why they have tried to restrict recreational use to the north.
Other than management trail there is no trails allowed for in the south. I think the horse inclusion on these trails was wrong, but I am not there to advocate for the exclusion of any group and I won't do it. Horses are a declining use in Glenrock anyway and I think NPWS believe it will just fade out.
I am yet to see a compelling case for bus stop that would have made any land manager keep it open. Certainly Log on Log off is a mess of a trail that should never have been built. Would you care to share your argument or case for its retention?
I saw a lot of arguments pushing for the conservation zone to be pushed back to Scout Camp Road. I think that had a lot of merrit. It would have closed the legal trails nicely, the boundary would have been definable unlike the POM and we would have retained some nice trail, but again the trail from the second creek to Scout camp has always been slated as being upgraded to an all access walking trail.
Yes, the advocacy is worth it. With out it we wouldn't be legally riding in the park. I know that wouldn't stop the majority of people (me included) but its nice to know we can ride and work on the trails without fear of fines or other ramifications. Part of the POM was always to have the North upgraded and made sustainable, rationalising the network as it went. World Trail have been involved since well before the POM (this is their third visit) and I would say it won't be their last. I think this has been achieved pretty well so far.
The NPWS have to make the north work given the departure from normal policy to include single trail. Its been argued, and I agree, that once the north is fixed, working well and numbers increase we will see the south reopened or additional trails added in the north. I've heard comments that indicate this may be closer than we think.
That said, the GTA has been given the light to do the works that are needed as well which reduces the need for funding. The works to Upper Jumping the Gun (or Double Barrel) were completely GTA work so the quality is there, it just takes longer.
It may not need to be. While the new line is running to the top of the quarry to link with the new tip site trail, there is serious discussion about keeping the trail back to the picnic table open.
Even after the POM came out, we have been continually discussion this and a few other trails and this is one that looks like it may be re-routed and retained.
The NPWS are not here to screw us over in glenrock, they have not screwed us over. Far from it. As we continue to work together more doors and trails will open, we are already seeing that. Even the guidelines for trail works have relaxed a long way.
To be honest, all I am hearing in here is that you were never going to be happy with the Glenrock POM unless the status quo was maintained.
Where we got to involved compromise from both sides. It had nothing to do with legal fears about user conflict. That issue really didn't come up from any of the user groups. NPWS have never discussed it with me, other than to request we don't have gap jumps.
The issue with the south according to NPWS related to it being a lot less disturbed than the north with a lot more remnant pre-European bushland. It also is the area that has the higher concentration of environmental groups working. Thats why they have tried to restrict recreational use to the north.
Other than management trail there is no trails allowed for in the south. I think the horse inclusion on these trails was wrong, but I am not there to advocate for the exclusion of any group and I won't do it. Horses are a declining use in Glenrock anyway and I think NPWS believe it will just fade out.
I am yet to see a compelling case for bus stop that would have made any land manager keep it open. Certainly Log on Log off is a mess of a trail that should never have been built. Would you care to share your argument or case for its retention?
I saw a lot of arguments pushing for the conservation zone to be pushed back to Scout Camp Road. I think that had a lot of merrit. It would have closed the legal trails nicely, the boundary would have been definable unlike the POM and we would have retained some nice trail, but again the trail from the second creek to Scout camp has always been slated as being upgraded to an all access walking trail.
Yes, the advocacy is worth it. With out it we wouldn't be legally riding in the park. I know that wouldn't stop the majority of people (me included) but its nice to know we can ride and work on the trails without fear of fines or other ramifications. Part of the POM was always to have the North upgraded and made sustainable, rationalising the network as it went. World Trail have been involved since well before the POM (this is their third visit) and I would say it won't be their last. I think this has been achieved pretty well so far.
The NPWS have to make the north work given the departure from normal policy to include single trail. Its been argued, and I agree, that once the north is fixed, working well and numbers increase we will see the south reopened or additional trails added in the north. I've heard comments that indicate this may be closer than we think.
That said, the GTA has been given the light to do the works that are needed as well which reduces the need for funding. The works to Upper Jumping the Gun (or Double Barrel) were completely GTA work so the quality is there, it just takes longer.
It may not need to be. While the new line is running to the top of the quarry to link with the new tip site trail, there is serious discussion about keeping the trail back to the picnic table open.
Even after the POM came out, we have been continually discussion this and a few other trails and this is one that looks like it may be re-routed and retained.
The NPWS are not here to screw us over in glenrock, they have not screwed us over. Far from it. As we continue to work together more doors and trails will open, we are already seeing that. Even the guidelines for trail works have relaxed a long way.
Last edited:
lets just hope the future of 2012 will allow us to work with npws and have many more sustainable legal trails opened up. 