Oxy falls.

[nrthrnben]

Feedback appreciated, and I see where you're coming from.

My take on the issue with trail styles is that there are a lot of DH style trails around with rock gardens and long senders. There's a few tracks like that at oxy, and there's the moo around the corner. And personally, I don't like riding those tracks. There is really only one track in Sydney (that I'm aware of) which has some freeride type jumps, and let's riders try tricks on their big bikes. And that's road track at oxy. This year I've seen a bunch of rad shit, including no-foot cans, supermans, and even a backflip. Gets me stoked.

I know a lot of the DH crew don't really like road track. But there's a lot of other riders who do like it, and are stoked with the way it's evolving. And a lot of them put in some serious effort help out with shovels. So it would be really nice if the DH crew could leave road track to the riders that maintain it and enjoy it, and let us get stoked on riding bikes the way we like to. After all, it's one of five options for the first half of oxy, and we're not going around trying to impose our style of riding all over the place (although we do maintain and fix other sections as required). Hopefully that isn't asking too much.

No worries mate thats what I was thinkn you could really start to see two different styles of trails being created at oxy.

We where worried the whole place was headin that direction.

Maybe some signs a few meters in:

Road: Freeride/DJ, double black diamond
Berm: Downhill/Freeride, blackdiamond

Bottom half main trail: Downhill/Freeride

or something similar.

Would help to educate all about whats what,reduce complaints and show trail fairies whats expected on that trail.

 

[bikesarefun]

Those shots you took today remind me,any plans for those tall skiny things on right after creek on road run.By the looks of them,a rider or two each week must be gettn nailed on em.Old A and B line Jumps were angled so you would miss em, however id hate to see a newby get nailed.

Not sure which ones you mean. But newbies getting nailed is always a worry. It's a tough call - I often take the view that it's better to have a few "squirrel catchers" at the top (kind of like what is there with the little annoying transfers) to try and make sure riders have a certain level of jumping skill before proceeding. Lots of arguments for and against that approach through. But I think one of the biggest threats to the place is the guys at AMBC running the "learn to fly" course at oxy. Last time I saw one of these courses, the instructor decided to send a lot of VERY underskilled riders off a jump on road track, and it ended with a hospital visit. From what I hear, most of their courses end in hospital visits. Clients of companies like AMBC are the sort of people likely to start legal action (as they're not always part of the MTB culture), and that worries me.

Really, there needs to be a beginner track. Berm track might end up being the candidate - it has some small easy jumps and with the new-and-improved road gap line, maybe the builders over that side will agree. We're all picking up shovels for some work over that side today.

The two new wallride berms on berm track are insane(wow),we could ride that all day,however have to dab the brakes for the kicker after,and reason this couldnt be a sender so you could hit it flat out?

The lip might have been modified since you last saw it - the builders shaved it back a fair bit last weekend. I don't hit that jump myself (as I'm worried about overclearing, and my bike only has a couple of inches of travel). I try not to have too much input on that track - there are enough good builders that love riding it at the moment and I'm sure it will get dialed in to be amazing (thinking of you D-man).

 

[SaabG]

He's talking about the trees that the new jump is aimed at. I think they are the reason why a lot of people are missing the down ramp. No one wants to aim at a tree when hitting a kicker so people are aiming left and missing the down ramp. I think if the kicker had the left half of it removed it would force people to take off further right allowing you to pull left (away from the trees) and still hit the down ramp.

I've heard that two people have been hospitalized on the new jump and the two guys that I would consider to be the best oxy riders both have crashed on it as well.

It is definitely a fun jump as you can hit it straight and really whip the sh1t out of it to the left but it washes off to much speed. On a 4" dirt jumper that's not a big deal as they pedal well but most people ride heavy downhill rigs which require a lot more effort to get your speed back up again. So IMHO you are building jumps that suit your bike, not the majority of people who ride Oxford falls. But that's just the opinion of a local fuckw1t haha.

 

[bikesarefun]

He's talking about the trees that the new jump is aimed at. I think they are the reason why a lot of people are missing the down ramp. No one wants to aim at a tree when hitting a kicker so people are aiming left and missing the down ramp. I think if the kicker had the left half of it removed it would force people to take off further right allowing you to pull left (away from the trees) and still hit the down ramp.

I've heard that two people have been hospitalized on the new jump and the two guys that I would consider to be the best oxy riders both have crashed on it as well.

It is definitely a fun jump as you can hit it straight and really whip the sh1t out of it to the left but it washes off to much speed. On a 4" dirt jumper that's not a big deal as they pedal well but most people ride heavy downhill rigs which require a lot more effort to get your speed back up again. So IMHO you are building jumps that suit your bike, not the majority of people who ride Oxford falls. But that's just the opinion of a local fuckw1t haha.

I'll say it again. I modified the lip last weekend. It does not wash off speed like the first incarnation. The landing will get even bigger, and extend to the tree to keep you from hitting it.

 

[SaabG]

I rode it on wedbesday and I was heavy on the brakes and still over hit it. It will get better when it gets extended but you'll never be able to hit it flat out like you could before. Still a fun jump though.

 

[Cuthbert]

Feedback appreciated, and I see where you're coming from.

My take on the issue with trail styles is that there are a lot of DH style trails around with rock gardens and long senders. There's a few tracks like that at oxy, and there's the moo around the corner. And personally, I don't like riding those tracks. There is really only one track in Sydney (that I'm aware of) which has some freeride type jumps, and let's riders try tricks on their big bikes. And that's road track at oxy. This year I've seen a bunch of rad shit, including no-foot cans, supermans, and even a backflip. Gets me stoked.

I know a lot of the DH crew don't really like road track. But there's a lot of other riders who do like it, and are stoked with the way it's evolving. And a lot of them put in some serious effort help out with shovels. So it would be really nice if the DH crew could leave road track to the riders that maintain it and enjoy it, and let us get stoked on riding bikes the way we like to. After all, it's one of five options for the first half of oxy, and we're not going around trying to impose our style of riding all over the place (although we do maintain and fix other sections as required). Hopefully that isn't asking too much.

And yet another oxy thread degenerates into an e-shit fight, and the quote above pretty much sums up the issue. There are many DH riders who also like to jump & liked the road track the way it was. The angst is now being generated because these riders feel like they're being forced out of their local track that they have ridden and helped maintain for the last six years, even helped to create in the first place in some cases, just because they like 8 inches of travel and wear normal size jeans .

Matt's post above is valid. Yes, there are very few local tracks that cater for those that get stoked on crankworx and provision should be made for those riders. But at the same time agreements were set between the local builders at oxy a number of years ago and these should also be honoured. Just to refresh everyone these were:
a) Do not cut new lines & avoid large wooden structures where possible - this was paramount to keeping local residents from causing giref for us by either interfering with trail features themselves of stirring up the Aboriginal Land Council.
b) The commonly used tracks should be designed/maintained for the good of all riders. This means that there should be b-lines so that those just starting out can ride the tracks unimpeded and that features such as jumps should be built/shaped so they can be ridden safely on a range of bike types by intermediate riders and up.
c) If you did not build a trail feature, no not modify it unless first discussing this with those who constructed in initially.
d) If you wanted to do something different, ressurrect one of the abandoned lines and do it there.

Its all about compromise, and for the most part these agreements have been adhered to. However, the recent issue is stemming from riders considering the transitions of new road track jumps to be too short and too steep to hit on an 8 inch bike without fighting to maintain control and flow. IMO some are not ideal for a DH bike, but for the most part they can be ridden ok - that is, appropriate compromise has been shown. Although I have to agree that the initial incarnation of the new creek jump was an issue, however, the builders seem to have now modified this. Haven't seen the new version yet myself but I'm sure it has been created with regard to points a) to d) above?

I'd hate to see a repeat of the arguements in the past where riders/builders were destroying each others work. If you want a say in how the tracks are maintained/developed Matt has set up a facebook page for this, or for those that don't do facebook (like myself) why not have a chat to the guys at the track or swap email addresses. This would be far more productive than sniping away on internet forums where those who have little understanding of the issues tend to chime in and fire things up.

Must say though Matt, some of the recent road track stuff is causing some serious discontent - I will email you in the next couple of days to discuss.

 

[Daniel69]

id just like to say that the jump to begin with was abit sketchy..... but now its sweet i have no worrys with it and can hit the big jump after it. Frankly im happy if i can clear the whole track with no worrys which i am doing now, and im not a very experienced rider at all.... but i think if you have a problem with it there are other tracks to ride aswell and wait for the builders to actually work on it... dont start having a rage at us because we are doing our best to cater for all..

in conclusion be PATIENT and things will get done and be ready to shred in NO TIME :fat:

 

[SaabG]

If you look through the thread mate its "the builders" that are "having a rage". The question is who gave you guys the authority to drastically change a track that had been cut in, ridden and enjoyed by others for years? That jump may not have been fun for someone on a short travel bike because you needed to pin through some rough stuff to clear it but on a dh bike (what 99% of riders ride at oxy) it was a fun, fast jump. Now its a slow jump that can be over hit very easily making it not only flow but its down right dangerous but as you say we just have to wait for the finished product before we lay judgement. Probably little comfort for the people already in hospital but what can you do.

 

[bikesarefun]

If you look through the thread mate its "the builders" that are "having a rage". The question is who gave you guys the authority to drastically change a track that had been cut in, ridden and enjoyed by others for years? That jump may not have been fun for someone on a short travel bike because you needed to pin through some rough stuff to clear it but on a dh bike (what 99% of riders ride at oxy) it was a fun, fast jump. Now its a slow jump that can be over hit very easily making it not only flow but its down right dangerous but as you say we just have to wait for the finished product before we lay judgement. Probably little comfort for the people already in hospital but what can you do.

Yep. The builders are having a rage. We put in a whole lot of work up there on maintenance. Yep - not just building new jumps - maintenance. It takes a whole lot of work to get that track running again after heavy rain, and just as much after a busy dry weekend when the track takes a beating and turns to dust and sand. It takes a lot of effort and a lot of hours. And we're sick and tired of people who never help out running their mouths off with disrespectful comments. We're sick and tired of people riding the track when it's wet and closed off with caution tape at the top. And lately, a few of us are at a point where we have very little tolerance left.



When the current road track crew started out, the track had deteriorated to a point where is at almost unridable. First we spent months getting it back to its best, and since then we've been gradually upgrading features. And, so you know, pretty well everyone who does work at road track has been helping out over at the road gap line, which is perfect for pinners on massive DH bikes. And yes, we have spoken with guys who originally cut these lines in. A bunch of us are also involved in advocacy efforts at oxy and elsewhere, pushing for facilities for all disciplines of riders. But is's f#cking hard to keep motivated when people keep trying to shit all over what we do, and go apeshit every time a new feature isn't perfect on the first attempt. And that converts to rage.




A general comment to all riders: we always need more hands on shovels to help out. If there's something you're not happy with, speak to the builders nicely, provide a suggestion of how you might be able to help us change it for the better, and together we can make things happen.




Edit: Not all builders are having a rage. I shouldn't generalize.

 

[SaabG]

We put in a whole lot of work up there on maintenance. [/I]

No one can argue with that which is why I've made a point to thank you when ever I've seen new work get put in.

 

[SaabG]

And we're sick and tired of people who never help out running their mouths off with disrespectful comments. We're sick and tired of people riding the track when it's wet and closed off with caution tape at the top. [/I]

I hope that wasn't directed at me because I haven't said anything disrespectful. In fact YOU called ME a fuckwit and I didn't even respond. As for people riding when it's wet that pisses me off too. Such a selfish thing to do. Infact I didn't attend a prepaid ambc course held at oxy the day after it rained knowing I wouldn't get a refund.

 

[SaabG]

And, so you know, pretty well everyone who does work at road track has been helping out over at the road gap line, which is perfect for pinners on massive DH bikes. And yes, we have spoken with guys who originally cut these lines in. A bunch of us are also involved in advocacy efforts at oxy and elsewhere, pushing for facilities for all disciplines of riders. [/I]

The new work on road gap is sick so thanks for that. Really good effort to help work on a line that I know you don't ride. Props.

 

[SaabG]

If there's something you're not happy with, speak to the builders nicely, provide a suggestion of how you might be able to help us change it for the better, and together we can make things happen.[/I]

I thought that's what I was doing but instead of making things happen I get called a F wit. Oh well, I've got tough skin.

Anyway, this is going no where. I have the rest of the day off and I'm keen to get the road track at the very least back to being a safe place to ride so if you guys are heading there today or tomorrow for some more building pm me. I still have a wheel barrow at home but my shovels are littered around some local am tracks but I'm sure I can borrow one and start doing what needs to be done but I don't want to touch other peoples work without them being present.

 

[unitec]

Please go to Facebook

Could we PLEASE close this thread & take it onto Facebook or face to face as it's making us all look like dickheads.
Our trails will only ever be as good as our community so lets start building some community

 

[Ridenparadise]

No doubt some touchy issues here. Whenever I hear about a new jump/feature affecting flow a few things come to mind.

First is that everything contracts after being built (or gets scrubbed down), so sharp lips etc do change for the better.

Second is that sight lines and trailside "hazards" may need to be changed to make riders feel more comfortable on the new design. Trimming branches and removing debris that seems to be quite distant to the feature and tread does relax riders and encourage better flow, which then hardens the riding line rather than creating a number of them etc. Braking bumps don't develop as quickly and so on. Obviously the Oxy riders are not beginners, so don't take this as any disrespect for your skills.

Thirdly, new work can create political flack as mentioned above. We have recently had to change work done by someone else. They did not know there was a trail inspection coming up and that what they had done was going to be a problem. They may have been going back to do more, but the timeline was not available, so I guess we pissed them off by doing what had to be done to remedy.

In this thread it sounds like there has been communication, but there is almost never going to be global agreement unless the trails are "authorised". Given that is the aim of the crew at Oxy, perhaps some of the available energy on this forum would be better put into cooperative building - by that I suggest with the guys who have been doing it recently. There is little point in the builders getting aggravated and other riders being disappointed. It's only dirt. Why have people walk away and leave a trail that does not turn on the DH riders when everyone could chip in and potentially develop complementary lines for different styles? ie A, AA and AAA lines rather than the typical A,B and tyro lines we normally think of.

 

[RUDENESS]

Could we PLEASE close this thread & take it onto Facebook or face to face as it's making us all look like dickheads.
Our trails will only ever be as good as our community so lets start building some community

A mtb community with NO unity turns into a bitchfest, everyone has their opinion on what is right or wrong with certain tracks / features at Oxy, and that's fine.
I believe Cuthbert's and Unitecs comments address what should be happening at Oxy.
I use to love riding this place, great tracks that are very well maintained, but having my own land with access to 200+ acres in the Goldy hinterland 20 minutes from the beach makes for great private tracks.
Hope you work it out down there guys.

 

[Daniel69]

Putting this out there since you cant read tone of voice i wasnt having a go at anyone kinda neutral but im liking it as it is like matt said few more barrows of dirt and then every one can be happy cause it will all work out for the best.

DANNYS OUT....

 

[my02]

What are the chances of:

Publicise on here or Facebook or an e-mail group or <insert appropriate medium> a well-in-advance gathering - pub for example (a beer or two always helps to lubricate discussion I think). Request anyone who wants to improve / alter / change tracks bring with them some constructive, clearly articulated ideas as to what they want or think could help.

Discuss what would work best for each track and decide what best suits considering skill levels, gradual logical progression, environmental impact, feasibility and sustainability.

Decide on the most appropriate plans.

Then arrange a designated build day/s to work on these plans.

Is it not reasonable to presume that if you have made the effort to provide input into the state of the tracks, you will be more likely to to attend a build day to ensure that your vision is correctly realised?

Some unity would go a HELL of a long way into providing a great riding location that could ultimately pave a better way into making Oxy officially recognised. We need to greatly elevate our public perception in order to improve MTBing in this area/city/state/country and showing how organised and democratic we can be in looking after this location would be a good start.

If someone could confirm the correct Facebook, gmail address etc to register, I'd be very grateful as I'd like to see Oxy continue to improve as a facility.

Ok, wheres a good pub close to Oxy?

 

[MtbDjRidaSachaz66]

Just a few people going "apeshit" in here...

First things first - MASSIVE respect to the builders whom put their dedication and time towards the maintenance and building at Oxford Falls.

Now regarding that new jump, yes it does seem like as though it needs quite some adjusting to it, but man I found it VERY disrespectful to read some people on here saying some very stupid and somewhat rude comments towards the jump/track whereas it is the builders who are putting their time and effort into it to make Oxford Falls function. Like Matt said, instead of actually making a complaint, cut the builders some slack, and pick up a shovel. If you're not a local who can't do so (like myself ), then just at least be more 'polite' and more 'constructive' when posting about a particular feature.

<3

 

[SaabG]

Can you please quote were anyone but "the builders" have been rude or disrespectful?