Plastic bags, climate change, renewable energy,

[Plankosaurus]

I think in the next 10-20 years a violent revolution could take place in somewhere like the USA, gross inequality , lots of poor, drugs and too many guns, similar to the French revolution without the guillotine.
Climate change will then have contributed to killing thousands maybe millions in places like Bangladesh so migration will be a big issue in a crowded world.

Why no guillotines? Effective and provide a spectacle for the masses. I don't subscribe to your anti-guillotine agenda...

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[Calvin27]

I think in the next 10-20 years a violent revolution could take place in somewhere like the USA, gross inequality , lots of poor, drugs and too many guns, similar to the French revolution without the guillotine.
Climate change will then have contributed to killing thousands maybe millions in places like Bangladesh so migration will be a big issue in a crowded world.

Handmaids Tale is not real buddy

 

[leitch]

Except we already cut ~$78 billion in taxes to the rich (admittedly this also includes the middle class, but hey, if they keep pushing the status quo because it benefits them) this July. But no, everyone should pay $200 each, that way we'd get $4 billion.
What is the ABC anymore if not just another mouthpiece for neo-liberalism.

100% those tax cuts are total bullshit, but I didn’t read everyone paying $200 each as neo-liberalist. Our current system which sees energy efficiency works (for example) as on par with any other home improvement investment and therefore largely the realm of middle class home owners (who tellingly don’t invest the same money in the energy efficiency of their two negatively-geared rental properties) is more neo-liberal than the hypothetical proposal in the article that really is just suggesting that the addition of a climate change tax or levy, at a level that their survey indicates is palatable to the general public, could make a real difference. We all pay the Medicare levy, should chuck a 1.5-2% pa climate levy on too.

 

[gillyske]

100% those tax cuts are total bullshit, but I didn’t read everyone paying $200 each as neo-liberalist. Our current system which sees energy efficiency works (for example) as on par with any other home improvement investment and therefore largely the realm of middle class home owners (who tellingly don’t invest the same money in the energy efficiency of their two negatively-geared rental properties) is more neo-liberal than the hypothetical proposal in the article that really is just suggesting that the addition of a climate change tax or levy, at a level that their survey indicates is palatable to the general public, could make a real difference. We all pay the Medicare levy, should chuck a 1.5-2% pa climate levy on too.

Everyone paying $200 instead of heavily regulating and taxing capitalists is modern neo-liberalism which I just equate to protecting capitalist interests rather than trying to keep a free market as the concept of a free market has been completely subverted to mean corporate welfare with a free labour market.
Also making everyone pay a 1.5%-2% climate levy is a joke too when corporations are the main cause of climate change and not the working class.
This is not to say that I don't believe we should take actions against climate change as individuals whilst we sharpen the guilotines.

 

[leitch]

Sure, I probably should have been clearer in saying that I’m 100% not advocating for an either/or situation. Big polluters and industry need to be regulated and taxed to fuck to get even a fraction of the way to the levels of change we need, and it infuriates me that our bullshit political environment is such that to even mention that “hey maybe that carbon price we had was, um, a good thing?” is grounds for summary execution.

But consumer-level action also has a place and the idea of a wholly distributed network of small scale solar generation across households within a decade from a minor investment while ScroMo is still scratching his ass wondering “where the bloody hell is my Sharks hat?” is kinda nice.

 

[Haakon]

such that to even mention that “hey maybe that carbon price we had was, um, a good thing?” is grounds for summary execution.

You can see the electricity sector emissions rising for decades, start to fall for the first time ever when the CPM was introduced, and crank instantly back up again after Abbot's election. They're coming back down again now just because its economic suicide to invest in fossil power generation and super profitable to invest in renewables.

Imagine how good a position we'd be in if the Greens had voted for the CPRS... It pisses me off they're still the only option to vote for.

 

[Calvin27]

Imagine how good a position we'd be in if the Greens had voted for the CPRS... It pisses me off they're still the only option to vote for.

Basically lost confidence in the greens from that point on. Was the inflexion point from when they cared to becoming just another political party out to make themselves relevant.

 

[Flow-Rider]

Calling on the Governor General to dissolve the house.

 

[Haakon]

Basically lost confidence in the greens from that point on. Was the inflexion point from when they cared to becoming just another political party out to make themselves relevant.

Yep, me too. Shame there is nothing better to vote for, bloody shallow talent pool in Oz politics!!

 

[hifiandmtb]

You can see the electricity sector emissions rising for decades, start to fall for the first time ever when the CPM was introduced, and crank instantly back up again after Abbot's election. They're coming back down again now just because its economic suicide to invest in fossil power generation and super profitable to invest in renewables.

Imagine how good a position we'd be in if the Greens had voted for the CPRS... It pisses me off they're still the only option to vote for.

And what the fuck are we doing about all the other sectors?

Chart 8. Australia’s energy consumption and electricity generation in 2017. Data: IEA.7 The dashed segment in the left hand most pie chart represents the equivalent share of electricity if the quantity produced in 2017 was produced within a 100% wind/water/solar (WWS) energy system, serving to demonstrate the remaining change needed for full electrification. The 23.5% in 2017 equates to 55% under WWS, as shown. The share of electricity becomes greater because total energy consumption of a 100% WWS system reduces to 42.9% of business-as-usual.15 16 This is due to: (a) using heat pumps for building heat; (b) using electricity for industrial heat; (c) using battery and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles; (d) eliminating mining, transportation and processing of fuels, and (e) efficiency improvements. AlsoNote: (i) Non-energy use of energy sources excluded (e.g. oil used for lubrication); (ii) Transport & Distribution Losses include gas distribution, electricity transmission, and coal transport, and (iii) Examples of Electricity Industry Own-Use include energy consumed in coal mines, own consumption in power plants and energy used for oil and gas extraction.17

Yeah, almost nothing mother fuckers.

Can't touch the oil & gas industries...sacrosanct.

Might stop me going to Bali. Won't vote for that.

[edit] Won't stop us digging up coal & floating it about the world. We like to share.

 

[Haakon]

And what the fuck are we doing about all the other sectors?

Yeah, almost nothing mother fuckers.

Can't touch the oil & gas industries...sacrosanct.

Might stop me going to Bali. Won't vote for that.

[edit] Won't stop us digging up coal & floating it about the world. We like to share.

Yes. What’s your point?

 

[hifiandmtb]

Am I not being clear enough?

CPRS was a load of shit in the big scheme of things. Baby steps are not what we need.

But too late now.

 

[Haakon]

Am I not being clear enough?

I think so. I just wonder why you're not aware of what's actually going on though? Honestly, seriously and genuinely not trying to be a dick here, but there is sooooo much more to this than railing against the man.

Don't get mad, get smart. You clearly care, get involved! Join the Greens and put a rocket up them on reality.

 

[hifiandmtb]

I see myself being more aligned with the XR.

Fuck the mainstream political parties - democracy won't fix this problem. Anyone who thinks we can influence voters to think about abstract issues other than their own is totally deluded.

 

[Haakon]

I see myself being more aligned with the XR.

Fuck the mainstream political parties - democracy won't fix this problem. Anyone who thinks we can influence voters to think about abstract issues other than their own is totally deluded.

Yeah, I get that. But you’re locking yourself out of some options...

XR. Yes, it’s valid and valuable and we need a lot of bodies on the ground. And we need people to organise them - that’s a better bang for buck use of your time.

And then there is the “mainstream” angle. Like or hate it, it’s the current means of social decision making and I still think your best shot at driving change is through that.

But if you subscribe to the idea that politics needing changing from the outside, then get smart and get organised.
Don’t get mad - get even.

 

[hifiandmtb]

Locking myself out of useless options, fine by me!

 

[Haakon]

Locking myself out of useless options, fine by me!

Ok. So what useful options are you pursuing? seriously, you’ve got passion - how is that being translated into something?

 

[hifiandmtb]

Polluting every thread in every forum I frequent with fun CC facts.

I even bring CC into most conversations I have with people who I've determined not to be completely full of (their own) shit.

Hence not many people.

People who have just told me about their next/last/planned trip to Europe for two weeks are full of (their own) shit.

 

[Haakon]

Polluting every thread in every forum I frequent with fun CC facts.

I even bring CC into most conversations I have with people who I've determined not to be completely full of (their own) shit.

Hence not many people.

People who have just told me about their next/last/planned trip to Europe for two weeks are full of (their own) shit.

Thats cool, me too Although I’m going to keep flying...

But ranting (while obviously fun) isn’t going to get any of us far...

 

[hifiandmtb]

Stopping flying will.