Plastic bags, climate change, renewable energy,

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
I'm talking feedback loops that cannot be brought back under control.

I don't smile about fun rides...I'm terrified, and feel guilty that I'm also to blame. I wish we all would realise we are part of the problem.
 

Haakon

Banned
I'm talking feedback loops that cannot be brought back under control.
So am I :) CH4 release from tundra is one obvious example. Its a snowball that cannot be stopped. Buckle up kiddies!

I smile. In the sort of smile that hides the sobbing at all thats been lost. Losing humanity is a net positive I suspect though. It was a nice planet the way it was. It will still be nice for the next tranch of species that adapts over the next millions years.
 

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
Any studies that show CH4 release is now unstoppable?

You will still get on an aeroplane for an overseas trip. I won't.

I guess that's the difference in our personal attitudes to this...
 

Haakon

Banned
Any studies that show CH4 release is now unstoppable?

You will still get on an aeroplane for an overseas trip. I won't.

I guess that's the difference in our personal attitudes to this...
I’m cynical and depressed and beyond the point of having any faith in humanity whatsoever. So yeah, I’ll get on a plane to have a look at the nice stuff while i Still can.


Methane release from permafrost - it’s get la released as temperatures rise, which helps temperatures rise, etc.
 

Calvin27

Eats Squid
The Greens are annoying... They’re looking like they’re trying to repeat their CPRS own goal and destroy the good in pursuit of perfect...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/01/greens-blast-key-part-of-labors-climate-policy-as-fake-action?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I found it a bit rich that they also last week claimed they wanted 100% EVs by 2030 but refused to back the fuel excise increase because it would hurt low income folks....

When your environmental party is kicking own goals, you know we are stuffed.
 

Haakon

Banned
I found it a bit rich that they also last week claimed they wanted 100% EVs by 2030 but refused to back the fuel excise increase because it would hurt low income folks....

When your environmental party is kicking own goals, you know we are stuffed.
It’s very frustrating. They’re an important party with a very important role to play. I wish they’d join the game and get some shit done instead of playing the idealist. Or at least be clear their position is the ideal one and they’ll work constructively to achieve it and not shoot down intermediate steps because they’re not perfect...
 

rowdyflat

chez le médecin
I fully support the Greens cos what looks to us now as idealism , will be commonsense in 20 years + 100 years time when people look back at a wasted opportunity.
Unfortunately most humans have only self interest at heart and little vision.
Newscorp controls about 70% of the media in Australia and are a bunch of right wing farts, anti conservation and hate the Greens and happily keep their readers as dumb as possible.
Businesses + Labour give lip service to climate change but dont want to do much about it .
I am cynical and pessimistic about the future of humans.
Apparently Mars had flowing rivers 1 billion years ago who can say there if there was a civilization there that died out ?
Earth in 1 billion years may look similar with no atmosphere and only rudimentary life.
 

Flow-Rider

Wheel size expert
I found it a bit rich that they also last week claimed they wanted 100% EVs by 2030 but refused to back the fuel excise increase because it would hurt low income folks....

When your environmental party is kicking own goals, you know we are stuffed.
People are living a fantasy life thinking EV will be a great solution, it will just close one door and open up another spectrum of problems. I'll bet you the electricity price will go through the roof eventually just like it did with LPG and diesel when it became a common fad. The best way to save the world is be less reliant on multiple vehicles and electrical products. Things like glass and oil are a fairly easy product to recycle but it's uneconomical to do so in a lot of cases so I'm going to hate to see what the end result will be of all these left over batteries from EVs considering it's a lot more complex in recycling them.
 

Calvin27

Eats Squid
People are living a fantasy life thinking EV will be a great solution
My line of thinking is even more primitive than that. If we can't get the easiest challenges - stationary energy - right, then let's not stuff around with unintended consequences we might create.
 

John U

MTB Precision
I found it a bit rich that they also last week claimed they wanted 100% EVs by 2030 but refused to back the fuel excise increase because it would hurt low income folks....
When your environmental party is kicking own goals, you know we are stuffed.
This is consistent for the Greens. The Gaurnaut Report suggested that any type of CPRS should not disproportionately impact the less well off. When the CPRS was introduced by Labor and the Greens it had reimbursements, or something similar, for the less well off. The policy you mentions sounds like it should be stated/executed in a similar way.

It’s very frustrating. They’re an important party with a very important role to play. I wish they’d join the game and get some shit done instead of playing the idealist. Or at least be clear their position is the ideal one and they’ll work constructively to achieve it and not shoot down intermediate steps because they’re not perfect...
The Greens are prepared to negotiate. They do so regularly. Labor/Green alliance which gave us the very effective CPRS was evidence of this. Not sure how this lines up with being idealist. They're more pragmatic than other parties in many circumstances.
 

Scotty T

Likes Dirt
EV batteries last 6-12 years depending on how hard they are driven. Then they kick on as house batteries for another 5-10. Then much of the much more valuable material than oil or glass has can be used for more batteries and other things. I've heard of tech being developed to keep the energy costs of recycling batteries low and profitable.

And of course these are not the last batteries we are looking for. Storing renewable energy is a huge step imho, EV's can store renewable energy, and we have to start with what we have and stop making excuses.
 

Flow-Rider

Wheel size expert
EV batteries last 6-12 years depending on how hard they are driven. Then they kick on as house batteries for another 5-10. Then much of the much more valuable material than oil or glass has can be used for more batteries and other things. I've heard of tech being developed to keep the energy costs of recycling batteries low and profitable.

And of course these are not the last batteries we are looking for. Storing renewable energy is a huge step imho, EV's can store renewable energy, and we have to start with what we have and stop making excuses.
Once they start going into the full swing of making EVs the cost of batteries will be less to manufacturer, I think things will then change. It's the same route that followed glass many years ago.

Why don't governments offer people incentives through tax rebates for living within 10kms of their work place and companies they work for supply share cars for the weekend. Make CBDs more affordable for workers and liveable so that it reduces vehicle transport.
 

rowdyflat

chez le médecin
Electric vehicles will be really important as they can be recharged at home w PV solar so the price of electricity wont be such an issue. Certainly I know someone that does this .
Obviously on a long trip you need charging stations along the road.
Car batteries plugged in a home can also be a form of household storage.
The big users of energy are electricity, transport ,agriculture and industry.
So far its mainly electricity production that we have addressed.
In agriculture its possible to have electric tractors but animals producing methane are a greenhouse problem too.
 

Calvin27

Eats Squid
And of course these are not the last batteries we are looking for. Storing renewable energy is a huge step imho, EV's can store renewable energy, and we have to start with what we have and stop making excuses.
Lithium to store renewable energy would actually be a disaster. Plenty of other technologies that can be applied. I mean we haven't even scratched the surface of thermal storage yet and that is as cheap as it can get and comprises of a huge chunk of our energy needs.
 

Haakon

Banned
Lithium to store renewable energy would actually be a disaster. Plenty of other technologies that can be applied. I mean we haven't even scratched the surface of thermal storage yet and that is as cheap as it can get and comprises of a huge chunk of our energy needs.
Sure, but its not here RIGHT NOW... Go nuts in a very urgent manner with what we have, and by all means also commercialise the other ideas at the same time. But don't delay by dissing the good because there might be better around the corner.
 

Haakon

Banned
The Greens are prepared to negotiate. They do so regularly. Labor/Green alliance which gave us the very effective CPRS was evidence of this. Not sure how this lines up with being idealist. They're more pragmatic than other parties in many circumstances.
That might be so, but they have to be seen as negotiators - their PR to date is just critical. Which to be sure is justified, but it needs to be more conciliatory.

CPRS was a Greens screw up. They opposed it in the end because the actions were not strong enough - so we ended up with no action. Good work... Had they let it through, it was to have started out for a while softly softly and then once it was part of the scenery it would be slowly turned up.

Chances are Abbot wouldn't have even worried about it, it would have been old news.
 

Calvin27

Eats Squid
Sure, but its not here RIGHT NOW... Go nuts in a very urgent manner with what we have, and by all means also commercialise the other ideas at the same time.
Renewable energy storage is not currently a major issue. Battery plants that have been commissioned are more to resolve grid issues rather than actually store renewable energy. As it currently stands I don't think aside from QLD that other states have had more renewables than they can consume at any given time.
 

Haakon

Banned
Renewable energy storage is not currently a major issue. Battery plants that have been commissioned are more to resolve grid issues rather than actually store renewable energy. As it currently stands I don't think aside from QLD that other states have had more renewables than they can consume at any given time.
That's right. Batteries are always about grid management.
 
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