Plastic bags, climate change, renewable energy,

Calvin27

Calvin27

Eats Squid
pharmaboy said:
Bringing your own coffee cup, having govt laws to get rid of plastic bags, recycling bottles with a 10c scheme etc, are always going to be marginal - as much about people feeling like they are doing some good rather than doing some actual good.
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This highlight the real problem. CC is a frog in boiling water. You can't see CC, but you can see when there is rubbish everywhere. Plastic bags I maintain are more about litter than waste. Not about to but i could tell you why it makes squat difference in environmental terms.

In other news I saw a few days ago that Chinese industries were traced to be using outlawed CFC products and reopening the ozone. FFS.
 
cokeonspecialtwodollars

cokeonspecialtwodollars

Fartes of Portingale
Calvin27 said:
This highlight the real problem. CC is a frog in boiling water. You can't see CC, but you can see when there is rubbish everywhere. Plastic bags I maintain are more about litter than waste. Not about to but i could tell you why it makes squat difference in environmental terms.

In other news I saw a few days ago that Chinese industries were traced to be using outlawed CFC products and reopening the ozone. FFS.
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This bit, not the bit about the Chinese industries but the bit about them being outlawed, this is what we need. I was young at time but the hole in the Ozone layer and the CFC ban is probably my first memory of anything climate change, if I remember correctly it was unpopular policy at the time but eventually it was begrudgingly accepted and now it is lauded, similar to Australian gun reform, but this kind of global action is what we need now if we're to have any hope.

EDIT: Had to look it up, it was called the Montreal Protocol.
 
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Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
Sorry it’s late and I’ll read the previous posts later properly and apologise maybe. But I’ve worked in cc professionally for nearly 20 years and I’m done. It was too late to make a difference before I started to be honest and news corp etc won about then too.

I’m only seeing my personal future racking a massive carbon footprint travelling and seeing shit while I can and being glad I don’t have kids to explain it to.

This election was the last straw. It was Australia’s last chance and it fucked it up. So don’t help those that don’t want to be helped and enjoy the end times.
 
Dales Cannon

Dales Cannon

lightbrain about 4pm
Staff member
So you have a go at people voting for their own benefit and not the planet and admit you are going to add to the shit for your own benefit?

Fucking pathetic.
 
Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
Dales Cannon said:
So you have a go at people voting for their own benefit and not the planet and admit you are going to add to the shit for your own benefit?

Fucking pathetic.
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Nah man, just broken. Spent my life trying to do the right thing and convincing people it was in their own interests and the world was worth saving.

But the last local election, and the us and the uk and Brazilian and Indian election all tell me it’s wasted effort. So go nuts fuckers, you win. Enjoy it.
 
silentbutdeadly

silentbutdeadly

has some good things to say
Dales Cannon said:
So you have a go at people voting for their own benefit and not the planet and admit you are going to add to the shit for your own benefit?

Fucking pathetic.
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Actually...he makes a point that I can relate to. I too have been working in the water management and climate adaptation space since the early 90s. And I too have largely given up on worrying about my fellow humans, their political masters and their collective response to CC. So much so that I've quit...

Insubstantial policy, insufficient money, reactive management...

In NRM, we called it 'Managing the Decline...gracefully'.

It's not all doom and gloom as I've been part of some very good stuff that has had some wins over the years...but practice change is hard and the ongoing simplification of our natural world because of our collective indifference is relentless. So after 25 years... it's good to know when to step back and just say to everyone else...Fuck it.

The world won't go to hell in a handbasket anytime soon directly because of climate change but indirectly...maybe.

Our son is 9 years old. When I was his age, nuclear destruction was a big bogeyman. Climate change may well be his. The best we can do is try to educate our kids to be resilient and adaptable in the face of uncertainty by always looking out for good options and good choices and never being afraid to try them even in the face of negative peer pressure. It may not work out but what else can you do? Personally, I'm quietly confident...but I can't say that about everyone else's kids. And I'm not sure I care anymore about that.
 
Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
Calvin27 said:
In other news I saw a few days ago that Chinese industries were traced to be using outlawed CFC products and reopening the ozone. FFS.
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Yeah we’ve known about that for quite a while. I first saw the graphs many years ago at an IPCC thing, it just took a while for the studies to be completed to a point where a formal finger pointing was possible. Lots of other stuff going on too...
 
hifiandmtb

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
Terrific article stating what's going on in the Arctic:

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ns-demise-the-end-of-the-arctic-as-we-know-it

The US, China, Russia, Canada and Korea are more focused on the commercial and strategic opportunities that are emerging as the Arctic melts and opens. Fishing, mining, tourism and cargo shipping could profit, but any gains will be far outweighed by the costs of a diminished Arctic. A recent study found melting permafrost alone would cause $70tn of damage, 10 times the expected revenue from resource extraction and new trade routes.
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Ah fuck it, we'll just exploit it while we can...
 
pharmaboy

pharmaboy

Eats Squid
That election result just shows you have to take the people with you and also reject green political philosophy if you want to win the climate war.

There is little fundamental reason why climate change has to belong to the socially progressive high taxing, anti business and growth crowd.

There is the problem - wedded to ideals, not pragmatic reality. The Greens are completely incapable of leading this or any other country forward towards a low carbon future
 
Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
pharmaboy said:
That election result just shows you have to take the people with you and also reject green political philosophy if you want to win the climate war.

There is little fundamental reason why climate change has to belong to the socially progressive high taxing, anti business and growth crowd.

There is the problem - wedded to ideals, not pragmatic reality. The Greens are completely incapable of leading this or any other country forward towards a low carbon future
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They’re good in theory I think - the whole “moral conscience” of politics caper. Problem is politics in Australia (and the world) has swung to roundly reject such posturing.
 
wesdadude

wesdadude

ウェスド アドゥーデ
Recycling does matter for reducing CC. There's an appreciable difference in energy consumption between producing shit from recycled materials and producing shit from scratch. It won't save us alone though.
 
pharmaboy

pharmaboy

Eats Squid
Haakon said:
They’re good in theory I think - the whole “moral conscience” of politics caper. Problem is politics in Australia (and the world) has swung to roundly reject such posturing.
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The problem with “good in theory “ is that it’s good from your perspective , and not from a majority perspective - that majority then mistakenly believes climate change is also that left wing progressive stuff, and chucks the baby out with the bath water. What we really need worldwide is a centre right party of climate change, that broadly has policies that everything is great except for stuff that drives carbon dioxide - it’s worth remembering that global warming very much belonged to Margaret Thatcher once, before it seemed to have been taken by Greenpeace and other green movements then subsequently dropped by the next generation of conservative politicians .
 
hifiandmtb

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
As far as I understand, recycling shit makes no material difference to CO2 emissions.

The world uses 100,000,000 barrels of oil per day. That's 184,027 litres every second.
The world uses 10,224,657 tonnes of coal per day. That's 118.3 tonnes every second.

Recycling campaigns generally just mean peeps think they are making a difference.

BTW...we need to half those figure by 2030 & eliminate them by 2050. Bit of a pickle.
 
Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
pharmaboy said:
The problem with “good in theory “ is that it’s good from your perspective , and not from a majority perspective - that majority then mistakenly believes climate change is also that left wing progressive stuff, and chucks the baby out with the bath water. What we really need worldwide is a centre right party of climate change, that broadly has policies that everything is great except for stuff that drives carbon dioxide - it’s worth remembering that global warming very much belonged to Margaret Thatcher once, before it seemed to have been taken by Greenpeace and other green movements then subsequently dropped by the next generation of conservative politicians .
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Yep, agreed. The Greens have been missing the point and decrying the good in pursuit of the “perfect” for a long time.

It pisses me off, they could have achieved so much if they got down off their high horse once in a while...
 
pink poodle

pink poodle

気が狂っている男
hifiandmtb said:
As far as I understand, recycling shit makes no material difference to CO2 emissions.

The world uses 100,000,000 barrels of oil per day. That's 184,027 litres every second.
The world uses 10,224,657 tonnes of coal per day. That's 118.3 tonnes every second.

Recycling campaigns generally just mean peeps think they are making a difference.

BTW...we need to half those figure by 2030 & eliminate them by 2050. Bit of a pickle.
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Is it ethical to sell our cars to join the car free revolution?
 
pink poodle

pink poodle

気が狂っている男
hifiandmtb said:
Going car free would make a bigger difference than putting a milk container in a yellow bin, yeah.
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But is it ok to sell the car and allow someone else to drive it?

Was having a car free life discussion yesterday. Australia really isn't designed to make it easy.
 
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