Port to Port 2018.... and a great ride was had by all!

pink poodle

気が狂っている男
Passion Pop ?
Safe as ever!

Ignorant me had only thought that was for champagne and feta!

Im annoyed at the name now too. Stages 2-4 are probably here to stay, with 1 the jury is still out.....

Sort that one out and its an epic 4 days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Given a lot of the race looks like it is for cx riders may as well just continue the trend of fire roads and windy bits...easy transition from vineyards to sugarloaf.

No idea about names though.
 

cokeonspecialtwodollars

Fartes of Portingale
No but most of the arrows are. You prob need a good idea of where it goes though just to be sure.
I've ridden most of it before, just figured that it would be prime after 400 odd sets of wheels have been over it. I'll take a .gpx of the course with me so coupled with the arrows should be able to work most of it out.
 

flamin'trek

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Thanks for the detailed report Minlak.

I only went for day 4. Time didn’t allow for more, but I’m keen to have a crack next year. Not so much for the trails, I can do that anytime really, but for the challenge of coverin the distance and riding with a massive group of strangers suffering the same fate.

I thought he course was pretty good for day 4. I got caught in the end of a long train in the single trail. It did spoil it a bit, but once I’d had a little rest was able to pass about six riders, including the two that were holding us up. They had pace but not skill, a common theme in long distance MTB events like this. I often get caught behind a slower descending riders (less skill) then have them pass me (less fitness) on the next open section - rinse, repeat, it’s part of the experience of a mass event. Learning to pass is part of that too.

Yes, the beach sucked, but in reality for me wasn’t too harsh on the gear (including a clip stack lay down). I walked (hobbled with cramping) most of it, and so did many others around me. The Marshall off the beach reckoned it was because they wanted to put a big climb in, and it worked. I didn’t bother with the bike wash as there was a good possibility that it would wash sand into my drivetrain that was working fine. In the convict 100 a few years ago I stacked in sand after the creek cross and made a sandcastle in the cassette and that was pretty horrid, didn’t want to repeat that!
 

cokeonspecialtwodollars

Fartes of Portingale
The Marshall off the beach reckoned it was because they wanted to put a big climb in, and it worked.
I don't know the full logistics of it but there is a way to get to that climb from a reasonably popular section of sweet downhill single trail of which you rode right past the entrance, maybe they wanted to add the extra distance of the beach as well or perhaps they deemed this bit of single track too technical to put in the course.
 

pink poodle

気が狂っている男
I believe that piece of single track is not official and suspect this event would be restricted to official trails.
 

cokeonspecialtwodollars

Fartes of Portingale
Not that I have an issue with "ride all of the things", just interested to know why they would choose to ride the sucky beach thing rather than the other awesome thing.
 

pink poodle

気が狂っている男
Not that I have an issue with "ride all of the things", just interested to know why they would choose to ride the sucky beach thing rather than the other awesome thing.
Perhaps less informed types think it is lovely? It is a nice beach...also there was a trail over that way long ago that was specifically removed. Perhaps there is a deliberate avoidance.
 

Quency

Likes Dirt
Not that I have an issue with "ride all of the things", just interested to know why they would choose to ride the sucky beach thing rather than the other awesome thing.
I reckon the beach is probably a throw back to the big sister event (Cape to Cape) in WA, which has incorporated a beach section for most of it's 10 years. Earlier editions of Port to Port had worse sections of beach to deal with. I didnt find this one too bad. could ride all of it except getting from the firm stuff up to Dudley Beach carpark.

Similar sentiments to that above though. would've much preferred to descend that other bit of trail and get to the exact same climb. The glenrock singletrack loop seemed short. could definitely have incorporated more to make up lost distance if the beach was skipped.

I did all 4 days. I reckon it was pretty sweet. With Ironman taking over the event promotion, everything seemed to run smoothly without any hiccups. Yeah the Stage 1 moto track was a bit of a chore, but the rest was pretty awesome. will do again
 

JoshB

Squid
I don't normally weigh into forum discussions such as this but after spending the last 12 months as part of the team planning this event and the whole week of the event busting my balls to put it on I thought I might pipe up and set a few things straight:

-This event is now owned by Ironman Group but the team behind it is essentially unchanged for the past 2-3 years
-This event relies on a significant amount of funding from Tourism NSW and Local Council support to make it financially viable
-To this end it needs to fill a certain brief for each stage - mainly that it needs to showcase a certain tourism-worthy aspect of the region - hence for this year it was Stage 1 Vineyards, Stage 2 Mt Sugarloaf, Stage 3 Watagans and Stage 4 Newcastle and beaches
-Yes Stage 1 was challenging - you try to find some decent trails near the vineyards that dont get raped by the moto crowd - we spent the Saturday before the race up there with a team of 5 guys sorting out the trails - they looked mint - then on Sunday they were ruined - we know this as we went back on Monday to mark it and saw the damage - we are looking for other trails in the area that we can use - yes there are some at Kurri but there is another charity event that uses these and we do not want to steal entries from their event - plus we need a hill toward the start to help spread riders before any singletrack, and ideally a loop course because it is an arse to have to set up seperate start and finish locations - got a better idea? We are all ears (just in case you were wondering why we lost Rabbit Hole it is because this went through private property and should not have been ridden outside of the event - the people that own the property got sick of being told to "get f'd" by groups of MTB riders as they illegally went through despite being told by the Event not to)
-Stage 2 was awesome - very much a favourite for the majority of the field - about 5-6km of road, maybe about the same of firetrail and the rest singletrack - yes there was a MF of a hill at the start but again this is needed to somewhat spread the field for the singletrack, plus the Mt Sugarloaf icon aspect - this course uses a LOT of private property - mostly owned by Newcastle Development Corp and Hunter Water - I know this because I had to sit through a site induction to be able to access and work in the area to clear and mark the trails - basically everywhere after the Killi Gravity trail is on this land and is technically not to be ridden at other times as it is trespassing (tell the motos and 4WD guys that!) - even the newer trails at Holmesville are technically off limits outside of the event (Hunter Water land) - we get formal permission to use it for the event by providing insurance coverage to indemnify the owners - think this is easy convincing them that all will be good then think again. During the event some MTB goons put a lot of effort in to go through Holmesville and remove a heap of directional arrows before Riders came through - unfortunately for them they wasted their time - it is so worn in now and has it's own arrows that all bar about 3 or 4 riders made the correct course - but see what sort of shit we have to put up with
-Stage 3 - improved this year with a new start alignment through private property that can only be accessed during the event - this meant less congestion in Awaba for all to enjoy - yes it is another big climb but it does link over to an awesome descent - once again finishing through private property that needs to be left alone (starting to get my drift about the PP?) - yes we could include a heap more moto singletrack from the Pines onward but people are broken by then and we just want to give them the best run down using some of Sawmill where we can
-Stage 4 - this one really gets me - you try to design an MTB course that finishes with Glenrock and does not have some shit bits in it - it does need to be a certain distance (40-45k) and again we need to have a bit of a Tourism brief - the start is near Swansea Head so that ticks off some Lake Macquarie Council stuff, but Police dont really want us on roads and Council dont want us on the Fernleigh track, and Riders winge about too much sand, and the general public have things they want to do on Sunday Morning and........list goes on, so we are fortunate we have the help of an awesome local that has created most of the Redhead Whitebridge trails - these are on Crown Land and once again we have to apply for special permission to use the 'old moto trials' for the event - we avoid Fernleigh as much as we can so as not to upset the Cyclists training for the next Olympic qualifications but have to follow the directions of the Police and Council as to where we can go and what roads we need to use to get there - now if I had a dollar for every person that tells me about the 'Busstop trail' I could probably buy a new Yeti :) Yes, we know it is there, we have known about it for years, we have asked NPWS every year if we can use it, we have been told every year that it is not a sanctioned trail and we can't use it, we have said every year that we are happy to assist with trail repairs or whatever is needed to get it sanctioned, we have been told every year that it is on their radar for the updated plan of management for the south, we have been told that there is no set timeframe for this to occur - and Police don't want us travelling along Burwood Rd to Scout Camp Rd, or down the Dudley Beach Rd - so where does that leave us for being able to access Glenrock - say hello to the Beach - yes there is some hangover from Cape to Cape, yes it does look great in the drone shots on the video - yes there are a lot of people that hate it - but again I bring you back to the question of how do you link Whitebridge trails to Glenrock and keep all the major stakeholders that could otherwise shut down the event happy - you send riders down an awesome firetrail and across the rock platofrm and a few hundred metres of sand - it's then up to us to manage the locals on the beach and in the carpark - and unfortunately that leaves you with the climb back up to Scout Camp Rd - yes those trails from Banksia Ave ll the way through to Scout Camp Road are illegal to ride a bike on at all times except for the event as they are designated horse trails, but you see that is where we get to argue with NPWS to get permission because the Police wont let us go any other way and if you just let us use Busstop this wouldn't be an issue and ...you get the picture!
-Yes Glenrock was a bit shortened this year because we knew the loopy singletrack would sap a bit of energy from the back half of the field and we wanted to get most of the field to the best bits of Grock, not where they were burning off

So I hope that this gives you a bit of insight into some of the decisions that are made that affect the course - most of the times when someone suggests that we are missing the best trails or that they know a better section of singletrack that links here to there we have already looked into it, asked the question of the landowner and been told no. NPWS are a great example - formed and sanctioned trails only - doesn't matter if it is flogged to death by motos every weekend - if they give us permission it is like they are condoning it's use.

We are not stupid - we dont try to make courses that people cant or dont enjoy to ride - we have to provide a course that is somewhat challenging for a current national champion but not too stupidly hard for a newcomer to the sport - that ain't easy and sometimes we dont get it right - sometimes we do but then someone comes along and f**ks it up just before the event - it takes a huge amount of time and effort that a bunch of us put in because we love the sport and we love showing other people what we have in the area - don't forget that by organising this for others we dont actually get to participate in the event itself! Sometimes we get someone come up to us at the event and say thank you for the awesome work we do and how much of a good time they had - sadly more often we just read about people bitching because they had to walk 500m along a beach on a perfectly sunny 20 degree Sunday morning and how if we had only sent them down that other trail their life would have been perfect :(
 
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Minlak

custom titis
I don't normally weigh into forum discussions such as this but after spending the last 12 months as part of the team planning this event and the whole week of the event busting my balls to put it on I thought I might pipe up and set a few things straight:

-This event is now owned by Ironman Group but the team behind it is essentially unchanged for the past 2-3 years
-This event relies on a significant amount of funding from Tourism NSW and Local Council support to make it financially viable
-To this end it needs to fill a certain brief for each stage - mainly that it needs to showcase a certain tourism-worthy aspect of the region - hence for this year it was Stage 1 Vineyards, Stage 2 Mt Sugarloaf, Stage 3 Watagans and Stage 4 Newcastle and beaches
-Yes Stage 1 was challenging - you try to find some decent trails near the vineyards that dont get raped by the moto crowd - we spent the Saturday before the race up there with a team of 5 guys sorting out the trails - they looked mint - then on Sunday they were ruined - we know this as we went back on Monday to mark it and saw the damage - we are looking for other trails in the area that we can use - yes there are some at Kurri but there is another charity event that uses these and we do not want to steal entries from their event - plus we need a hill toward the start to help spread riders before any singletrack, and ideally a loop course because it is an arse to have to set up seperate start and finish locations - got a better idea? We are all ears (just in case you were wondering why we lost Rabbit Hole it is because this went through private property and should not have been ridden outside of the event - the people that own the property got sick of being told to "get f'd" by groups of MTB riders as they illegally went through despite being told by the Event not to)
-Stage 2 was awesome - very much a favourite for the majority of the field - about 5-6km of road, maybe about the same of firetrail and the rest singletrack - yes there was a MF of a hill at the start but again this is needed to somewhat spread the field for the singletrack, plus the Mt Sugarloaf icon aspect - this course uses a LOT of private property - mostly owned by Newcastle Development Corp and Hunter Water - I know this because I had to sit through a site induction to be able to access and work in the area to clear and mark the trails - basically everywhere after the Killi Gravity trail is on this land and is technically not to be ridden at other times as it is trespassing (tell the motos and 4WD guys that!) - even the newer trails at Holmesville are technically off limits outside of the event (Hunter Water land) - we get formal permission to use it for the event by providing insurance coverage to indemnify the owners - think this is easy convincing them that all will be good then think again. During the event some MTB goons put a lot of effort in to go through Holmesville and remove a heap of directional arrows before Riders came through - unfortunately for them they wasted their time - it is so worn in now and has it's own arrows that all bar about 3 or 4 riders made the correct course - but see what sort of shit we have to put up with
-Stage 3 - improved this year with a new start alignment through private property that can only be accessed during the event - this meant less congestion in Awaba for all to enjoy - yes it is another big climb but it does link over to an awesome descent - once again finishing through private property that needs to be left alone (starting to get my drift about the PP?) - yes we could include a heap more moto singletrack from the Pines onward but people are broken by then and we just want to give them the best run down using some of Sawmill where we can
-Stage 4 - this one really gets me - you try to design an MTB course that finishes with Glenrock and does not have some shit bits in it - it does need to be a certain distance (40-45k) and again we need to have a bit of a Tourism brief - the start is near Swansea Head so that ticks off some Lake Macquarie Council stuff, but Police dont really want us on roads and Council dont want us on the Fernleigh track, and Riders winge about too much sand, and the general public have things they want to do on Sunday Morning and........list goes on, so we are fortunate we have the help of an awesome local that has created most of the Redhead Whitebridge trails - these are on Crown Land and once again we have to apply for special permission to use the 'old moto trials' for the event - we avoid Fernleigh as much as we can so as not to upset the Cyclists training for the next Olympic qualifications but have to follow the directions of the Police and Council as to where we can go and what roads we need to use to get there - now if I had a dollar for every person that tells me about the 'Busstop trail' I could probably buy a new Yeti :) Yes, we know it is there, we have known about it for years, we have asked NPWS every year if we can use it, we have been told every year that it is not a sanctioned trail and we can't use it, we have said every year that we are happy to assist with trail repairs or whatever is needed to get it sanctioned, we have been told every year that it is on their radar for the updated plan of management for the south, we have been told that there is no set timeframe for this to occur - and Police don't want us travelling along Burwood Rd to Scout Camp Rd, or down the Dudley Beach Rd - so where does that leave us for being able to access Glenrock - say hello to the Beach - yes there is some hangover from Cape to Cape, yes it does look great in the drone shots on the video - yes there are a lot of people that hate it - but again I bring you back to the question of how do you link Whitebridge trails to Glenrock and keep all the major stakeholders that could otherwise shut down the event happy - you send riders down an awesome firetrail and across the rock platofrm and a few hundred metres of sand - it's then up to us to manage the locals on the beach and in the carpark - and unfortunately that leaves you with the climb back up to Scout Camp Rd - yes those trails from Banksia Ave ll the way through to Scout Camp Road are illegal to ride a bike on at all times except for the event as they are designated horse trails, but you see that is where we get to argue with NPWS to get permission because the Police wont let us go any other way and if you just let us use Busstop this wouldn't be an issue and ...you get the picture!
-Yes Glenrock was a bit shortened this year because we knew the loopy singletrack would sap a bit of energy from the back half of the field and we wanted to get most of the field to the best bits of Grock, not where they were burning off

So I hope that this gives you a bit of insight into some of the decisions that are made that affect the course - most of the times when keyboard warriors suggest that we are missing the best trails or that they know a better section of singletrack that links here to there we have already looked into it, asked the question of the landowner and been told no. NPWS are a great example - formed and sanctioned trails only - doesn't matter if it is flogged to death by motos every weekend - if they give us permission it is like they are condoning it's use.

We are not stupid - we dont try to make courses that people cant or dont enjoy to ride - we have to provide a course that is somewhat challenging for a current national champion but not too stupidly hard for a newcomer to the sport - that ain't easy and sometimes we dont get it right - sometimes we do but then someone comes along and f**ks it up just before the event - it takes a huge amount of time and effort that a bunch of us put in because we love the sport and we love showing other people what we have in the area - don't forget that by organising this for others we dont actually get to participate in the event itself! Sometimes we get someone come up to us at the event and say thank you for the awesome work we do and how much of a good time they had - sadly more often we just read about people bitching because they had to walk 500m along a beach on a perfectly sunny 20 degree Sunday morning and how if we had only sent them down that other trail their life would have been perfect :(
Because internet Disclaimer:- I say none of the below to dismiss your opinions and or your feelings and I can understand exactly how you feel the work that was put in was truly amazing however we were customers not just participants and as consumers of the product we are going to offer opinions on what we did and didn't like.

First off let me say something I did forget to mention in my posts is how awesome every single volunteer or marshal I came across was awesome. Even the ones that lied about it all being downhill from here :). I wish I could remember the names of the Sweeps they were awesome at encouraging the tail end people A.K.A me.

You seem very passionate about what you have helped create and you had me enthralled with all of the insight into the event until you started calling people "Keyboard Warriors". I understand how disheartened you must feel especially when you see this "sadly more often we just read about people bitching because they had to walk 500m along a beach on a perfectly sunny 20 degree Sunday morning and how if we had only sent them down that other trail their life would have been perfect :(".

People are entitled to have their opinions as much as you are are entitled to not agree with those opinions this is where the opportunity to educate comes about which is what I was excited to see in your post.

All of the marketing leading up to this event this year included the phrase "we have listened to you and made this event even better" Listened! that means they took onboard feedback. Every person I interacted with around the event understood why the beach would have been included it doesn't mean we have to like it. When I got there it was high tide with a surfing contest taking place in the middle of it.

Everybody that participated was aware of the beach section and participated knowing that but the very fact that out of 4 days of amazing scenery and trails the fact that people single out the beach so much should tell you something.

I encourage everyone to do this event for the experience.
 

Minlak

custom titis
Did you get a bunch of sand in your kicks @JoshB ? You sound so chaffed...what with all the sobbing and whinging.
Usually I can just wash past most of poodle but sometimes your just a dick.

The man helped create something he is proud to have been a part of and is passionate about the perceived attacks on what he has done.

Now I understand its the internet and maybe Josh is a good friend of yours and it is light hearted ribbing but you still just come across as a dick.
 

pink poodle

気が狂っている男
sometimes your just a dick.
Yes I am. More often than not too, deliberately even. Especially I'm this instance. His post is an excessive sook about not having his butt kissed for organising a race ("waaa waaa waaa...it's all so hard and difficult, but we keep doing it because Rea$on$"). You can kiss if you like, I think he should've been a little more profession, especially as he implies some level of representation of the event itself.

I'll give @JoshB a pat on the back though for something very specific and important. These guys left the place very clean after their event. The best I've ever seen. Other event organisers seem to struggle or not care and that is disappointing.
 

Minlak

custom titis
Yes I am. More often than not too, deliberately even. Especially I'm this instance. His post is an excessive sook about not having his butt kissed for organising a race ("waaa waaa waaa...it's all so hard and difficult, but we keep doing it because Rea$on$"). You can kiss if you like, I think he should've been a little more profession, especially as he implies some level of representation of the event itself.

I'll give @JoshB a pat on the back though for something very specific and important. These guys left the place very clean after their event. The best I've ever seen. Other event organisers seem to struggle or not care and that is disappointing.
See this is the bit about educating I am trying to get across. Poodle is still a dick for lacking compassion for some one clearly invested in the event but he goes on to educate with his reasoning. Perhaps going forward he could combine the two?
 

DMan

shawly the least hangeriest guy on rotorburn
See this is the bit about educating I am trying to get across. Poodle is still a dick for lacking compassion for some one clearly invested in the event but he goes on to educate with his reasoning. Perhaps going forward he could combine the two?
Poodle you are a naughty boy!! But my very soon to be wife and I are going to do the 2019 P to P and can't wait!
 

Dales Cannon

lightbrain about 4pm
Staff member
Did you get a bunch of sand in your kicks @JoshB ? You sound so chaffed...what with all the sobbing and whinging.
That is not how the post comes across and I too think this is a dick post.

Have you ever tried to organise anything that used big corporation lands? Unlikely or you would be less critical.

Well done @JoshB and the rest of the organisers and volunteers etc.
 

cokeonspecialtwodollars

Fartes of Portingale
I don't know the full logistics of it but there is a way to get to that climb from a reasonably popular section of sweet downhill single trail of which you rode right past the entrance, maybe they wanted to add the extra distance of the beach as well or perhaps they deemed this bit of single track too technical to put in the course.
Yes, we know it is there, we have known about it for years, we have asked NPWS every year if we can use it, we have been told every year that it is not a sanctioned trail and we can't use it, we have said every year that we are happy to assist with trail repairs or whatever is needed to get it sanctioned, we have been told every year that it is on their radar for the updated plan of management for the south, we have been told that there is no set timeframe for this to occur
Fairly certain that the climb also falls into the unofficial category... not to mention virtually every piece of single track ridden prior to that on the day.
so we are fortunate we have the help of an awesome local that has created most of the Redhead Whitebridge trails - these are on Crown Land and once again we have to apply for special permission to use the 'old moto trials' for the event
Not that I have an issue with "ride all of the things", just interested to know why they would choose to ride the sucky beach thing rather than the other awesome thing.
yes those trails from Banksia Ave ll the way through to Scout Camp Road are illegal to ride a bike on at all times except for the event as they are designated horse trails
Thanks for taking the time to respond, it was reasonably insightful... looks like I'm going to buy one of those plastic horse heads to stick on the front of my bike.
 
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