Pre WW1 roadie?

stewyh

stewyh

Likes Dirt
Was recently given this old clunker by my dad. It was his grandfather's originally & he reckons it would date to about 1910 or so. Trying to find out what year/make it is and its country of origin but I can't find any identifying marks on it. It looks like the frame was originally red & the forks/removable seat-stays were chrome.

The other thing I'm trying to ascertain is whether it's worth restoring or not. It's pretty rusty but looks to be mainly surface rust & flaking paint/chrome. The original 28" wheels are toast & cranks/headset are seized but with some gentle heat and penetrating lube I reckon I can pull it down. Even if the frame & fork are the only salvageable bits it might be worth a shot.
RB might not be the best forum for this kind of thing but, hey it's a bike & we all like bikes! At any rate I'm not a member of any other forums because RB is the best and the admins are undoubtedly extremely attractive.

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Any help much appreciated.
Cheers.
 
Freediver

Freediver

I can go full Karen
Just did a quick google and it looks like 1904-1908. British Small Arms made BBs cranks chainrings for a lot of manufacturers so took a punt, got lucky in it being BSA and that's when the chainring is from.
 
stewyh

stewyh

Likes Dirt
Freediver said:
Slap forehead, Birmingham Small Arms.
Click to expand...
It's ok I knew what you meant! Thanks heaps for the info it's narrowed it down quite a bit. Found some old parts catalogs and bb & hubs are definitely 04-08 bsa as you say. By sheer luck I found the weirdo rear brake to be an Applehans which might have been fitted a bit later on in the 20s. The frame & fork are still a mystery though. Further digging required...
 
Mr Crudley

Mr Crudley

Glock in your sock
Could come up great. Go the oxalic acid.

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Sent with added typos from a tiny mobile keyboard and spellchecker that makes a mess of everything.
 
Nautonier

Nautonier

Eats Squid
Wow, they were using higher profile teeth on the chainring way back then. What went wrong to cause all those years of frequent chain drops pre narrow/wide?

The headset bearings might be a tad crunchy.
 
stewyh

stewyh

Likes Dirt
Nautonier said:
The headset bearings might be a tad crunchy.
Click to expand...
The headset, bb & hubs are totally seized... I got my work cut out for me but hey I like a challenge!
What about that brake caliper though... looks like it could have yer fingers off if you weren't careful...
 
silentbutdeadly

silentbutdeadly

has some good things to say
Get hold of Wyvern on the bicycles.net.au forum. The bloke is a wizz with the elderly bikes. It's possibly fixable but sourcing a new chain will be expensive. Don't kill the stem if you can help it. Personally, I'd treat it as a wall hanger...
 
stewyh

stewyh

Likes Dirt
Ok I now have the bike in my hot little hands so thought I'd add a few more pics & info on the frame. Have a thread going over at Bicycles.net forums but it's proving to be a head-scratcher so far.
Unfortunately I'm still not able to find any numbers, letters or logos anywhere on it, inc. cranks & chainring (It's still pretty gunky though, a bit more scrubbing might unearth something). It was certainly red, I know that for certain if nothing else :lol:

The following might provide some clues to those more knowledgeable than me.
DT & ST are 1" diameter. TT is 7/8" or thereabouts.
Stem, bars, fork & headset were all chrome or nickel plated
Chainstays were chromed to about halfway along.
Bolt up seatstays appear to have been chromed to about halfway along, then paint up to the brake bridge, little chrome section then paint at top.
Looks like the TT and DT were chromed right at the end where they meet the headtube lugs.
Guessing hardware is Whitworth standard as none of my metric or imperial tools seem to fit properly.
The rear hub has 3 gears of differing teeth count, 2 on one side, one on the other.
The headset lugs are quite fancy, maybe they can provide a clue? Or maybe they were just the style at the time like wearing an onion on ones belt :lol:
It does seem to resemble various mid '20s racers I've found on Google but nothing an exact match.

Anyhoo if anyone reckons they have a clue as to marque or approx. year of manufacture, please do chime in!
Finishing up another project over the next week or so but will get stuck into pulling this one down after that.
Cheers.

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ForkinGreat

ForkinGreat

Knows his Brassica oleracea
Nice lugwork. Best as a wall-hanger IMO.
Slowly, Slowly cottonbud pace on the major rust removal. Would have been a leather saddle. Brooks would probably make something to fit.

Does depend on the clamp dimensions. or use a brooks saddle as a template and get some thick leather shaped to suit??
Probably easier to butcher a new Brooks saddle though :)
 
Freediver

Freediver

I can go full Karen
Wheels from the day when changing gears meant getting off and turning the wheel around. Le tour had a rule that that was the only gearing allowed until WW2. Usually they were 2 a side though, not 2 and 1.
 
stewyh

stewyh

Likes Dirt
ForkinGreat said:
Nice lugwork. Best as a wall-hanger IMO.
Slowly, Slowly cottonbud pace on the major rust removal. Would have been a leather saddle. Brooks would probably make something to fit.

Does depend on the clamp dimensions. or use a brooks saddle as a template and get some thick leather shaped to suit??
Probably easier to butcher a new Brooks saddle though :)
Click to expand...
Yeah I'd probably go with new brooks seat as it has straight seat tube rather than the diamond shaped horizontal bar some of those old bikes had.
The extent of corrosion on the seatstays/chainstays
Will determine if it's a wall hanger or rider. Really hoping for the latter!
 
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