Project Car / Motorbike thread. Let's see 'em.

Haakon

Keeps on digging
BMW is done I think. That documentary previously linked about the German car industry was about right I reckon, BMW are not serious and are going to fade away. This is a very weak effort - ICE car converted to a dead end tech for passenger cars. And its Toyota tech anyway, access to fuel cell tech is why they build the Supra fro Toyota, but even Toyota are refocusing on battery electric.

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/09/10/bmw-i-hydrogen-next-frankfurt-motor-show/#slide-2167772
 

link1896

Mr Greenfield
The new BMW ceo needs time to find his feet. Vast majority of profit still comes from high performance combustion engined cars.
 

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
The new BMW ceo needs time to find his feet. Vast majority of profit still comes from high performance combustion engined cars.
Which is fucked.

BMW says there's "no single solution that covers the complete spectrum of customers’ mobility needs worldwide,"
Customers should only be able to choose a product that provides CC solution pathways.
 

SummitFever

Eats Squid
It will be interesting to see how this all pans out. If they want to, there's basically nothing the Germans can't build and build at least as good as everyone else. They are experts at building things and an EV is just another thing (indeed a thing less complicated to make than an ICE vehicle).

The problem with EVs is that they are much less complicated than normal cars but the price does not reflect this. EVs would be lapped up by the masses if they were significantly cheaper than other vehicles. This is probably the main reason the Germans don't want to get into this space because "cheap" is probably the only thing they can't/don't do well.

China, on the other hand, are the experts on cheap and maybe we'll see EVs from China that will drive the cheap revolution that the market needs.
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
ID.3 production line. Only shots or decent pictures I’ve yet seen of the mechanicals.

Drum brakes :( But rear drive :)

 

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
Drum brakes? Looks like some sort of energy recuperation hub thingo to me, with drums in there too for backup safety most likely.

And people who faff about FWD vs RWD, whatever packaging makes sense, do it. FWD or RWD chassis can both be set up to be fun.

I want his torque wrench.
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
Yep, drums for sure. Makes sense, 90%+ of braking will via regen so these are really there for the last bit and are plenty good enough for one big panic stop. To be fair modern drums are fine, my Clio has tiny ones on the back and pedal feel was still really good.

Agreed, I like a well set up FWD. But RWD is a better packaging choice for a proper EV dedicated platform, although disappointed they didn’t pack stuff in more tightly in the nose and give a froot. Guess they went for more cabin space instead.

Me too :) Make the noise!
 

SummitFever

Eats Squid
I'm must have never driven a "well set up FWD" because I can't say I've ever experienced one that I did not seriously dislike. Having the one set of tyres handling the steering and the acceleration is a disaster. I don't think any car manufacturer has ever done this for performance or safety. FWD is only ever a way to save money.'

Bring on the RWD (or 4WD) EVs.
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
I'm must have never driven a "well set up FWD" because I can't say I've ever experienced one that I did not seriously dislike. Having the one set of tyres handling the steering and the acceleration is a disaster. I don't think any car manufacturer has ever done this for performance or safety. FWD is only ever a way to save money.'

Bring on the RWD (or 4WD) EVs.
Driven a RenaultSport Megane or Clio? Peugeot 306 GTi? Honda Integra?

Neither is better or worse IMO, just different.

FWD has many advantages, improved production line efficiency is jsut one. It has packaging advantages and traction advantages. It’s also preferable in ice and snow prone countries as it pulls itself straight.
 
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SummitFever

Eats Squid
No. Not driven any of those, but unless they've figured out a way to modify the laws of physics I'm skeptical about how good they might be. They're probably great (for a front wheel drive car)...
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
FWD for sporty driving in road cars can be awesome fun as they are quite safe when driving at the limit - they must be manual though (or DSG I guess...) and have good chassis balance. The engine braking with a FWD manual car is awesome as the weight transfer gives the front so much grip, and you can use it to do mild Scandinavian flicks and get the car sliding (most of the time with minimal or nuetral steering) and when you feed the accelerator back in it helps by pulling it through the corner and there's no risk you're going to overpower the rear tyres and loop out - worst case you'll push the front a little wide if it spins up hard. It's all about using weight transfers to get the car sliding around how you need.

TBH though I wasn't at all sold on FWD's until I bought a manual '09 Civic sedan for a commuter. Once I'd adapted my driving style I realised just how hard I could push it. Was such a deceptive car with all the kerb appeal of the average Camry, but it was ridiculously planted when throwing it into nuetral steer slides at the upper end of legal speed limits in corners with posted speed advisories 30km/h lower. Small but willing N/A 1.8 and 5 speed and a kerb weight below 1100kg made it such a fun package that'd then just purr quietly through the next town you came to drawing no attention to itself. Sold it after 5 years of constant abuse as the synchros in the gearbox were getting pretty hammered after 1000's of full throttle shifts with nothing but a fleeting and sharp kick of the clutch. Many happy memories driving that car. ;)
 
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