Pro's/ Con's of the 29er
- Thread starter Ev81
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{ScarFace}
Likes Dirt
Millions of threads about this already, for more info. Google Trek G2
rearviewmirror
Likes Dirt
Ride one and draw your own conclusion.... and as far as I'm concerned, there are no "cons", especially if you get the right bike with the geometry you're after.
harmonix1234
Eats Squid
pharcyde
Likes Bikes and Dirt
My 2c. I am 6ft, 120kgs and an intermediate rider.
Last year, I was in the market for a new bike. Test rode a few 29ers. Both dual and HT. Namely Scott Scale Pro and Giant AnthemX29 both on and off road around trails I know very well. I was 100% SOLD on the idea........
...... until I test rode the Trance X2. Deal done ... bought the 26" Trance. Best decision Ive made, despite my buddies (and wife!), completely getting the shits with me constantly wondering what if about the 29er concept. Too many times over the last year of social riding and club XC racing, have i found myself being glad I was on the smaller more nimble wheels and frame. If you are a downhiller, then i am suggesting strongly that you go ride one OFFROAD!!
Last year, I was in the market for a new bike. Test rode a few 29ers. Both dual and HT. Namely Scott Scale Pro and Giant AnthemX29 both on and off road around trails I know very well. I was 100% SOLD on the idea........
...... until I test rode the Trance X2. Deal done ... bought the 26" Trance. Best decision Ive made, despite my buddies (and wife!), completely getting the shits with me constantly wondering what if about the 29er concept. Too many times over the last year of social riding and club XC racing, have i found myself being glad I was on the smaller more nimble wheels and frame. If you are a downhiller, then i am suggesting strongly that you go ride one OFFROAD!!
Electric Panda
Likes Bikes
Funny question to ask a 29er forum... like asking if a ham sandwich is good for you at a Bar mitzvah...
In the scheme of engineering and physics a bicycle is neither expensive, nor complex, nor difficult to find power input. So it is suspicious that the amount of published power data regarding the 26 v 29 wheel is small in comparison to the debate. For whatever reason bike companies do not give out their figures. Never have. Even when the HT v Dually debate was going on Specialized never gave out power figures for their dually v ht… They just bought the best mtb rider around at the time to ride for their team. To their credit the marketing strategy worked as Specialized is one of the big brands in mtb’ing.
The two sets of even somewhat relevant figures that are available are from Dave Harris which most observers would agree, while from a (24hr) race which is good, the amount of data wouldn’t normally make it a considered test in the engineering world. To be fair it was never meant to be – the guy just wanted some objective analysis on two bikes he wanted to race in enduro’s. But he gave details of bikes, most of the data and the method he used to analyse it. The figures are all posted on his Healthfx site. The analysis for that series of data (175w v 188w) came from a 24hr race ridden by a pro rider returned a 7% advantage to the 26in bike. He used a Salsa softail 29er v a Trek Fuel 26er (pre equi-link)
The other is from AMB magazine. Their published figures do not give much background in the analysis of data collected and the same thing goes - the data set itself does seem to be larger. However it did take the data from multiple riders and they did multiple runs over a few days. They returned these figures … 26in 234w and avg speed of 13.9km/h: the 29er 238w and 12.9km/h…. so a little less power used by the 26in yielded a 7.7% increase in speed. They used identically spec’ed Giant FS bikes.
While far from ideal they are the only pieces of objective analysis going.
Many people here seem to be commenting on the enduro scene which has different criteria to the short course XC races. The smaller approach angle of the 29er would change the perceived/real comfort/control and therefore perceived and real speed especially after longer enduro type rides for some riders.
As yet there is no published power data from a 29er HT v a 26FS which many of the enduro/marathon racers would probably like to see.
As a foot note I am rather taken aback by the attitude of some folks towards the science. This data does not say you personally will not have more fun on your 29er full suss or that you personally will be not be fast on an enduro or marathon course riding a 29in wheeled bike.
In the scheme of engineering and physics a bicycle is neither expensive, nor complex, nor difficult to find power input. So it is suspicious that the amount of published power data regarding the 26 v 29 wheel is small in comparison to the debate. For whatever reason bike companies do not give out their figures. Never have. Even when the HT v Dually debate was going on Specialized never gave out power figures for their dually v ht… They just bought the best mtb rider around at the time to ride for their team. To their credit the marketing strategy worked as Specialized is one of the big brands in mtb’ing.
The two sets of even somewhat relevant figures that are available are from Dave Harris which most observers would agree, while from a (24hr) race which is good, the amount of data wouldn’t normally make it a considered test in the engineering world. To be fair it was never meant to be – the guy just wanted some objective analysis on two bikes he wanted to race in enduro’s. But he gave details of bikes, most of the data and the method he used to analyse it. The figures are all posted on his Healthfx site. The analysis for that series of data (175w v 188w) came from a 24hr race ridden by a pro rider returned a 7% advantage to the 26in bike. He used a Salsa softail 29er v a Trek Fuel 26er (pre equi-link)
The other is from AMB magazine. Their published figures do not give much background in the analysis of data collected and the same thing goes - the data set itself does seem to be larger. However it did take the data from multiple riders and they did multiple runs over a few days. They returned these figures … 26in 234w and avg speed of 13.9km/h: the 29er 238w and 12.9km/h…. so a little less power used by the 26in yielded a 7.7% increase in speed. They used identically spec’ed Giant FS bikes.
While far from ideal they are the only pieces of objective analysis going.
Many people here seem to be commenting on the enduro scene which has different criteria to the short course XC races. The smaller approach angle of the 29er would change the perceived/real comfort/control and therefore perceived and real speed especially after longer enduro type rides for some riders.
As yet there is no published power data from a 29er HT v a 26FS which many of the enduro/marathon racers would probably like to see.
As a foot note I am rather taken aback by the attitude of some folks towards the science. This data does not say you personally will not have more fun on your 29er full suss or that you personally will be not be fast on an enduro or marathon course riding a 29in wheeled bike.
Electric Panda
Likes Bikes
No... definitely not... for some riders the bigger wheel may aid comfort and control ... also a 26FS can do the same... no data available to say which is more effecient... a 26fs with a proper lock out shock ie dt swiss or Scott, may well be an option...
jathanas
Likes Bikes and Dirt
They are far from ideal...
The AMB study is probably better as they used more than 1 rider but only the Anthems as test bikes. The other test is using the power figures of 1 rider, 1 26", and 1 29er. Too many factors where N=1 for this to be considered in any way conclusive.
I'm not a 29er evangelist BTW, and I enjoyed reading your write up. Thanks.
jathanas
Likes Bikes and Dirt
What makes a road bike better than a hybrid with drop bars?
To answer:
Frame geometry,
Frame materials,
MTB Specific Groupset,
Wheelset,
Suspension,
Brakes...
But other than that they're the same thing...
You are officially the only person in history to have said anything remotely sensible about this debate :clap2:
slippy
Likes Bikes and Dirt
It's not that sensible, it smacks of bias. Quoting only studies that support your argument isn't objective.
There are plenty of criteria by which to measure the "perfect bike" - power output in an experiment with N=1 is one way of assessing the deal. For my personal riding I'm not aiming for optimal power output. I've owned about 30 MTB's over 20+ years (yes, I'm old), both 26ers and 29ers. I have more fun on 29ers. How do you measure that? For me it's the no 1 criteria, so the 29er wins. Your personal criteria may be different, if your thing is dirt jumping you may not be happy with a 29er.
If you're racing to win the world cup the power output may become a factor. Hang on, aren't 29ers starting to win world cup rounds and world championships? Hmm, maybe there's more to this...
Comparing full sus 26ers with hardtail 29ers is like comparing apples with chalk. How would you know which factor had the bigger influence, the wheel size, the suspension, the overall weight? An objective test would pitch multiple pairs of bikes that were essentially the same with different wheels sizes against each other, with multiple riders, multiple runs, multiple locations, multiple conditions. Then maybe you might start to get some meaningful data.
Then again, if the 26er proves faster but I have more fun on 29ers will I care?
There are plenty of criteria by which to measure the "perfect bike" - power output in an experiment with N=1 is one way of assessing the deal. For my personal riding I'm not aiming for optimal power output. I've owned about 30 MTB's over 20+ years (yes, I'm old), both 26ers and 29ers. I have more fun on 29ers. How do you measure that? For me it's the no 1 criteria, so the 29er wins. Your personal criteria may be different, if your thing is dirt jumping you may not be happy with a 29er.
If you're racing to win the world cup the power output may become a factor. Hang on, aren't 29ers starting to win world cup rounds and world championships? Hmm, maybe there's more to this...
Comparing full sus 26ers with hardtail 29ers is like comparing apples with chalk. How would you know which factor had the bigger influence, the wheel size, the suspension, the overall weight? An objective test would pitch multiple pairs of bikes that were essentially the same with different wheels sizes against each other, with multiple riders, multiple runs, multiple locations, multiple conditions. Then maybe you might start to get some meaningful data.
Then again, if the 26er proves faster but I have more fun on 29ers will I care?
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Electric Panda
Likes Bikes
Gee, kind words in a 29er forum (I’ll send you the 10bucks as soon as I can get it
) While I have at least some kudo’s I’ll drop another … I chat to a coach of a well known XCO world cup rider from time to time. And the subject of 26v29 came up. Now these guys test all the time but he said it really wasn’t an issue per se. The reason being is that most XCO 26in bikes run around 2.2 tubeless or tubs with stiff strong wheels … no-one would think to put the same tyre on a 29er rim – they use skinny skinny tyres at higher pressures on light (flexy) wheelsets – often the complete wheel is lighter than the 26in next to them – obviously they suffer on the tech sections (and replace wheels a lot) but are able to keep up on the uphill. Kulhavy used a duall sus to get around this to some degree… Todd Wells just has superb skills. In his view Kulhavy had a super strong season and was the best rider on the day and it would be churlish to say that it was the bike that did it. (funny that!)
Just as it would be churlish to say Catherine Pendrel (XCO female World Champ) had a big advantage riding an Orbea 26er – she is a super smooth rider and was the best on the day
And if anyone thinks World Cup courses are smooth buffed single track have a look at Mt Saint Anne on youtubed – one Steve Peat was heard to mumble ‘ I just wouldn’t ride that on a hardtail’. It was pissing cold rain and one section was 200m of broken slippery slab rock down the side of a mountain. Check out the Champery cct – the 1m drop onto roots was nuts. Stromlo was considered, by him, to be a very tame course compared…
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jathanas
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Agreed. Sauser, Wells et al can climb & descend wet rock with 1.95" Renegades. The skill they possess is mind-altering. They run pretty low PSI though; around 25 if I remember.
P.S: The Specialized 29er Rovals are actually pretty stiff. Not as stiff as the 26er version, but adequately so. I won both variants.