Re-Instate Mt. Tamborine Downhill Trail Campaign

[fallboy]

Count me in

Count me in. Post up the what, wheres and whens as appropriate.

This is the best track around the GC in my opinion and needs to be kept open.

 

[ponchos]

I'm in

Count me in.

 

[Deadman]

Thanks MerryPrankster

I am not the member with the Lobbying experience but along with my riding crew I regard the Dump Run is my local DH run. My riding crew put many man hours into it over the last 2-years and so it is with the same dedication and passion that we apply ourselves to getting it re-openned on behalf of all the DH'ers that love the Dump Run. I'm sure we've met or been on the track with you at some time or other over the last couple of years - let's hope we can meet again on this great track.

Join the Mountain BUG along with as many Mtn Bikers as possible. My crew and I are heading up the Dump Run Campaign. I expect that there will be many more campaigns for Mtn Bikers and DH'ers in the future. That's why the Mountain BUG need members and support.

Cheers, Dave

 

[Kingswood]

If we can show to those that oppose the trail through a proactive and intelligent piece that we are not all degenerates, then I think that would be a major battle won (potentially one that could mean going higher up to local government is not necessary to get the trail reopened).

I would say that the responsible riders outnumber the knobs. But how do we 'self-police' all riders so that the knobs dont just keep being knobs and keep getting trails closed down?

 

[Burrito_Boy]

Im down, something like this has been a long time coming.

SNIP
3. Lobby for access to Local Government land on vehicle management trails (multi-use trails) to be open unless there is a compelling evidence based reason not to.

This grabbed my eye, as you'd be surprised by the "evidence" Brisbane's green lobby groups can find.

 

[kawaug]

I feel the love

I'm in, I didn't know this had happened, what a pain in the arse. Riding Clear mt and tambo is the only exercise i get, only it's not exercise when you love it. So I'll help.

 

[Oppy]

I would say that the responsible riders outnumber the knobs. But how do we 'self-police' all riders so that the knobs dont just keep being knobs and keep getting trails closed down?

The same way cross country riders do. Through education and "peer policing" (read peer pressure). Mountain bike riders, downhillers especially should be able to understand the idea of progression. It's time to take it to the next level.

 

[iridedh]

nice plan

count me in!!!!

 

[Deadman]

All mountain bikers need to think as one to get this over the line

The same way cross country riders do. Through education and "peer policing" (read peer pressure). Mountain bike riders, downhillers especially should be able to understand the idea of progression. It's time to take it to the next level.

There is no doubt that every DH'er is SEQ will get on board because the first fight concerns DH'ers, but we need XC folk too. We (DH'ers) have felt the sting from being the 'outlaws' of the MB community. DH'ers have had tracks locked up while XC have had tracks openned up. This Tambo campaign marks the start of a new era for SEQ DH'ers. In public we need to be the air of respectability, leaving us to unleash our passion and express ourselves while we smash the trails.

 

[Deadman]

We are not the only stakeholders in this issue

Im down, something like this has been a long time coming.



This grabbed my eye, as you'd be surprised by the "evidence" Brisbane's green lobby groups can find.

Good point Burrito Boy - Green lobby groups are the oldest and most entrenched and they have done a lot of good work. Their mission is most aligned with National Parks and Wildlife Service. Motos have also a lobby group that has had some achievements around SEQ. Another successful Lobby Group is the Horse Lobby. National Parks have to somehow manage this. Throw in issues like locals and access etc. you can see the complexities that confront our campaign.

Cheers, Dave

 

[BB1]

Think this is a great idea, if nothing else it's probably the opportunity we needed to get organised. Be aware that the ranger that looks after the place is not a fan of mountain bikers and has very negative experiences of dealing with us at present, so that will be a hurdle to overcome. Deadman, unfortunately I'm away for a couple of weeks but happy to provide more info and help out when I return.

 

[Deadman]

The Mountain BUG Update

Re-instate the Dump Run Campaign Progresses

To his credit our man has made contact with Queensland Parks and Wildlife (QPWS) and it has been encouraging. He spoke to the local Ranger in Charge (RIC) of the area and he is willing to have a site meeting to discuss the issues surrounding the mountain bike use of the area. We thank the RIC for his valuable time and for hearing us out.

We will attend the meeting on your behalf, but we need your input. Now is the time to put your thoughts together and let us know. We will distil them into a succinct list of issues and wishes. You will get another opportunity for further comment after we post-up the final draft copy. Then we can take it to the park management.


The QPWS have already flagged a few issues such as user conflict, safety and erosion. Basically these issues are typical of any visitor management and there are any number of proven solutions to these problems out there, we just need to identify which ones best suit our situation.

It is also important for riders to understand this is a negotiation. We are not negotiating from a position of strength, although both parties should expect that there will need to be give-and-take. We need to identify those things that we consider essential to have and those that are nice to have if we can get them. We need to understand that we have to share with other users and this has to be managed. If we are successful and this becomes an official track - more issues arise.

As you can see we have embarked on a complex task, there are many issues that will need to be resolved but we are confident that we can find the solutions.

It’s time to get the BUG – The Mountain Bug

 

[PirateKing]

This is truly amazing, and what seems like groundbreaking work for DH in south east queensland. However, should we (or is there any possibility we could) include the old Tambo track in the discussions. Some may not want to try and stretch and ask for too much at the moment while negotiations are still fairly one sided to their side, but two legitimate official down hill trails in close proximity would make a huge difference.

A good point to raise would be that if there were two trails the rider load would be split and thus not as strong on each.

I'm about to send an email to the email provided, If you want help from a student engineer who has spent the last 4 years of his life doing feasibility\environmental\constructibility studies for free, I'm happy to do what I can to help.

 

[Stint]

Re-instate the Dump Run Campaign Progresses
We will attend the meeting on your behalf, but we need your input. Now is the time to put your thoughts together and let us know. We will distil them into a succinct list of issues and wishes. You will get another opportunity for further comment after we post-up the final draft copy. Then we can take it to the park management.

I feel you're correct when you say that we're not coming from a position of strength on this one. It would be good if we can get an understanding as to what the issues are from all the stakeholders involved, so that we know what parameters and constraints we face. Surely we can find solutions to these issues.

From the points of user conflict, safety, and erosion, the first point of user conflict would probably be the trickiest as it would involve discussions with the locals, and other stakeholders that we have upset. Points of safety and erosion can be solved once we know the parameters we are working with. I am not familiar with the IMBA trail building design "code", but there are resources that are available out there we surely can approach for trail building expertise (e.g. Glen Jacobs, Roadie Rob, Gap Creek Trail Alliance, GCMTB etc).

Added to the fact that should this campaign be successful, then we have precedence we can work from, and apply the framework and principles on future track campaigns.

May I suggest that if there is an action list that comes out of the meeting with the local Ranger in Charge, that it be posted up on this thread, so that if there are any forum members that have expertise in the area, then they can lend a hand. Many hands make light work, yeah?

 

[theMerryPrankster]

This is truly amazing, and what seems like groundbreaking work for DH in south east queensland. However, should we (or is there any possibility we could) include the old Tambo track in the discussions. Some may not want to try and stretch and ask for too much at the moment while negotiations are still fairly one sided to their side, but two legitimate official down hill trails in close proximity would make a huge difference.

A good point to raise would be that if there were two trails the rider load would be split and thus not as strong on each.

I think this is actually a solid idea to build from.

Given that part of the complaint from the residents was the congestion caused by shuttles, and riders behaving erratically on a small street, re-opening a second trail in the area would allow disperse numbers between the two spots.

This would reduce traffic in each individual location, as well as distributing the environmental impact - 2 trails with (presumably) the same number of riders = half the impact on each individual trail.

 

[Deadman]

Thanks Stint

I feel you're correct when you say that we're not coming from a position of strength on this one. It would be good if we can get an understanding as to what the issues are from all the stakeholders involved, so that we know what parameters and constraints we face. Surely we can find solutions to these issues.

From the points of user conflict, safety, and erosion, the first point of user conflict would probably be the trickiest as it would involve discussions with the locals, and other stakeholders that we have upset. Points of safety and erosion can be solved once we know the parameters we are working with. I am not familiar with the IMBA trail building design "code", but there are resources that are available out there we surely can approach for trail building expertise (e.g. Glen Jacobs, Roadie Rob, Gap Creek Trail Alliance, GCMTB etc).

Added to the fact that should this campaign be successful, then we have precedence we can work from, and apply the framework and principles on future track campaigns.

May I suggest that if there is an action list that comes out of the meeting with the local Ranger in Charge, that it be posted up on this thread, so that if there are any forum members that have expertise in the area, then they can lend a hand. Many hands make light work, yeah?

Well said. We aim to keep everyone informed on this thread every time we have news of some kind. Keep the input coming.

Cheers, Dave

 

[andy]

Keep up the good work Dave, signing up to lend a hand in any way I can.

 

[Jimmy]

Do we appreciate what we have.

This is a great attempt to move forward on the trails for South East Queensland. I have seen usable trails been closed over the years for one reason or another. Great trails that were built and constantly improved over the years by riders and trail builders closed. There are a few reasons for this, all that have been covered but the main thing is to stand back and see what is going on here as a whole.
Just through this thread it is apparent that there has been substantial amount of work and time that people have given to try and get a great track back. The track has been there for years and improvements have been carried out hence the question why is it now that the track closes?
While recently discussing this issue with a environmental engineer (also a Dh rider) it was quickly highlighted what we already know. To gain permission for a trail is just the start. This is followed with an environmental impact study, followed by correct trail planning using building IMBA principles and then actually carrying out building the trail would not only take months of planning and building but a quick calculation shows a extreme amount of money. Quite possibly a few hundred thousand dollars. Bare in mind that the overall cost does included businesses to carry out the detailed studies, pay for professionals to research the idea to see if it sustainable. Volunteers who have gratefully put their spare time into making this happen is priceless and these people do it because like you and I love the sport. I think until this is highlighted and it hits people pocket and their personal time some riders don't put any value on what they are given or have.

I hope this shows just a quick glimpse of what is required to make a trail happen.


The question is then DO we appreciate what we have? If Not then lets not waste everybody's time and money. The trails that are already usable are limited but we have got the use of them. The people who allow access or locals to the area do require RESPECT as we are only visitors to the tracks and often have to travel to get to them. Small things like doing cutties down to the start of a track over the locals flowers may seem like fun but where is the RESPECT for the locals. Surly you can practise cutties on the track? Obeying road rules is also a point to take into consideration when there are other road users and tourists around. Locals quickly get upset and quite rightly so. Lets not mention what a DHer did at the BBQ at the top of the trail when there is a public toilet there.

Question - Are the riders who carried out the above items taken responsibility and saying they will put their TIME and MONEY into discussions, meetings and track building?
Do they have money to buy land and put a DH track in and then make a usable shuttle road?

Do you think that we deserve new tracks or the opening of old tracks when we are viewed by people like this. Why would they say yes lets open more trails for riders when the trails that have been there for years are quickly closed without consideration for us. Well it goes both ways and we can start with what has always been part of the DH rule and start using the outdoor rules.
The locals, councils and rangers are not to blame, we have to look at our sport first and show that we appreciate the land access we have and to treat it, locals, councils and rangers etc with respect that they are due. Until then we will never get more trails.

Ask yourself this question - Is Australia behind the rest of the world when it comes to MTB trails and parks?

A lot of you will have been oversees to bike parks all over the world and you will agree that it is heaven when you take your bike over and ride their trails. One thing that is apparent is the attitude that the locals have towards riders and riders have towards the locals etc is very much different to Australian.

So different attitudes can lead to great things. Most of us do take consideration for others and have respect and it's the same old story a small minority can do a large damage. So the responsibility falls on all of us to lead by example. Why not make Australia one of the best mountain bike places in the world, we have some of the best riders and the DH World Champion. Great riders, great land and great weather. There is so much going for us, lets get the fundamentals sorted and then show that we can work with the locals, councils and rangers a like and make this sport grow and get bigger and better. Come on let's not loose what we have and support a great cause like this that is actively trying to get this awesome track back and usable for us.

Please include me for any help that is required.

Thanks

Jimmy

Bikeology

 

[Deadman]

Jimmy speaks of a new paradigm

This is a great attempt to move forward on the trails for South East Queensland. I have seen usable trails been closed over the years for one reason or another. Great trails that were built and constantly improved over the years by riders and trail builders closed. There are a few reasons for this, all that have been covered but the main thing is to stand back and see what is going on here as a whole.
Just through this thread it is apparent that there has been substantial amount of work and time that people have given to try and get a great track back. The track has been there for years and improvements have been carried out hence the question why is it now that the track closes?
While recently discussing this issue with a environmental engineer (also a Dh rider) it was quickly highlighted what we already know. To gain permission for a trail is just the start. This is followed with an environmental impact study, followed by correct trail planning using building IMBA principles and then actually carrying out building the trail would not only take months of planning and building but a quick calculation shows a extreme amount of money. Quite possibly a few hundred thousand dollars. Bare in mind that the overall cost does included businesses to carry out the detailed studies, pay for professionals to research the idea to see if it sustainable. Volunteers who have gratefully put their spare time into making this happen is priceless and these people do it because like you and I love the sport. I think until this is highlighted and it hits people pocket and their personal time some riders don't put any value on what they are given or have.

I hope this shows just a quick glimpse of what is required to make a trail happen.


The question is then DO we appreciate what we have? If Not then lets not waste everybody's time and money. The trails that are already usable are limited but we have got the use of them. The people who allow access or locals to the area do require RESPECT as we are only visitors to the tracks and often have to travel to get to them. Small things like doing cutties down to the start of a track over the locals flowers may seem like fun but where is the RESPECT for the locals. Surly you can practise cutties on the track? Obeying road rules is also a point to take into consideration when there are other road users and tourists around. Locals quickly get upset and quite rightly so. Lets not mention what a DHer did at the BBQ at the top of the trail when there is a public toilet there.

Question - Are the riders who carried out the above items taken responsibility and saying they will put their TIME and MONEY into discussions, meetings and track building?
Do they have money to buy land and put a DH track in and then make a usable shuttle road?

Do you think that we deserve new tracks or the opening of old tracks when we are viewed by people like this. Why would they say yes lets open more trails for riders when the trails that have been there for years are quickly closed without consideration for us. Well it goes both ways and we can start with what has always been part of the DH rule and start using the outdoor rules.
The locals, councils and rangers are not to blame, we have to look at our sport first and show that we appreciate the land access we have and to treat it, locals, councils and rangers etc with respect that they are due. Until then we will never get more trails.

Ask yourself this question - Is Australia behind the rest of the world when it comes to MTB trails and parks?

A lot of you will have been oversees to bike parks all over the world and you will agree that it is heaven when you take your bike over and ride their trails. One thing that is apparent is the attitude that the locals have towards riders and riders have towards the locals etc is very much different to Australian.

So different attitudes can lead to great things. Most of us do take consideration for others and have respect and it's the same old story a small minority can do a large damage. So the responsibility falls on all of us to lead by example. Why not make Australia one of the best mountain bike places in the world, we have some of the best riders and the DH World Champion. Great riders, great land and great weather. There is so much going for us, lets get the fundamentals sorted and then show that we can work with the locals, councils and rangers a like and make this sport grow and get bigger and better. Come on let's not loose what we have and support a great cause like this that is actively trying to get this awesome track back and usable for us.

Please include me for any help that is required.

Thanks

Jimmy

Bikeology

Great words from a much respected member of the mountain bike community. Thanks Jimmy.

Dave

 

[bennymac]

Think ppl think

Jimmy well said mate could not agree more so jump on borad pepole and help out where ever you can this will be a starting point for SEQ tracks