Rider etiquette sticky?

[Sneebyl]

I guess there is just the few that think they are all it, and I don't think that is going to change.

Yeah, I've had more than a few close calls with people like that. Just a week ago, in fact, on The Oaks, going down one of the early, slower but still pretty fast downhills a young (but still older than me) rider who thought he was so amazing came behind me at breakneck speed, so I started to go to the left of the track to let him pass, but surely enough, he tries to pass me on my left, so I have to rapidly turn a bit to the right almost causing a serious crash. He braked and ended up locking up his rear wheel, losing traction, but somehow not crashing, and so he then sped up, cursing me as he went, not even a simple apology. Heck, even I apologised, and it wasn't even my fault!

Seriously, there are some people that need a serious walloping to teach them some BASIC etiquette, but I don't think a 55kg guy like me would be up for that, but I guess that guy's time will come.

 

[Warwick]

I have been intrigued on a couple of occasions at night at Lysterfield, when saying 'Hi' to the only other rider in the 50 square km park, under lights, and being ignored. I'm there to get away from it all too, but I find that really strange.

 

[EddieVedder]

Capital Punishment

I did the 50km in the recent CP. I finished in the top half of the field. I'm much better at climbing than I am at downhills. Having said that, I still came down Stromlo at a reasonable pace. I was conscious of the fact that others behind me were more competent on the downhill run and called riders through at every opportunity. Even after calling riders through, I was still abused by two who passed me. Pretty poor form in my opinion. As the second rider went through and called me a pussycat, I suggested that I would take him seriously when he was able to beat me in a climb. A shame that fools like this turn a great day into an ordinary day.

 

[casnell]

I have been intrigued on a couple of occasions at night at Lysterfield, when saying 'Hi' to the only other rider in the 50 square km park, under lights, and being ignored. I'm there to get away from it all too, but I find that really strange.

Perhaps it was the mad pooer?

 

[matty87]

Offroad is far nicer than on road.

Im new to dirty stuff and do have some aspirations to get in a few races but ill never be a world beater. and as yet am just playing on the trails. All the guys and girls iv bummped into so far have been really nice and wanna have a chat and point out new trails etc. I think the majority of the offroad crew are like this well from my experience.

the same can prolly be said for roadies (which i have been on for a good decade and do more passing than being passed) but i must admit that just about every decent ride i go on during peak cycling times of the day i will encounter a number of people that will do something dangerous/stupid and then blame it on the rider not at fault. (the arrogant groups are the worst). and it is very rare to get a hi out of anyone even when you say hi or give them a nod.

For this reason im liking the mountain biking its far more friendly and easy going. I think tho no matter how well rules and common courtesys are implemented/taught there will always be mr im better get out my way douch bag. just be nice to them and make them feel stupid when they stop and think about it.

 

[tony1234]

Rider Etiquette

Great to see heaps more riders out since the re-opening of the You Yangs, however why should I cop a mouthful of abuse from DH riders simply because I want to climb the Cressy Climb track. Sure there have been a few berms and jumps put in, but the track is there for all to use, in whatever direction you want to ride it. It is not solely a downhill track. If parks management decide at some point to change it to a single direction track for safety reasons then fine, I will abide by whatever rules they want to put in place, but until then remember this is a public park for anyone to use.

 

[DaSchmooze]

Great to see heaps more riders out since the re-opening of the You Yangs, however why should I cop a mouthful of abuse from DH riders simply because I want to climb the Cressy Climb track. Sure there have been a few berms and jumps put in, but the track is there for all to use, in whatever direction you want to ride it. It is not solely a downhill track. If parks management decide at some point to change it to a single direction track for safety reasons then fine, I will abide by whatever rules they want to put in place, but until then remember this is a public park for anyone to use.

Tony you're right but I don't know... heading uphill of a trail that is used primarily for blokes who ride it going downhill ... isn't that a bit dangerous? From what I'm lead to believe, there isn't a whole lot of legal DH trails so whilst it's not right that they give you a gob full I can kind of understand it at the same time.

 

[unitec]

Quick!!! get the flame suit on

Unfortunately DH is a sport that cannot have people riding in the opposite direction (as previously said it's too dangerous) so by riding up the trail you are virtually preventing them from riding at all.
It's like the parent that takes his/her 2 year old to the skate park to stand in the middle & prevent all the users from riding/skating and say "it's a public place so it's OK

 

[velocidad]

Great to see heaps more riders out since the re-opening of the You Yangs, however why should I cop a mouthful of abuse from DH riders simply because I want to climb the Cressy Climb track. Sure there have been a few berms and jumps put in, but the track is there for all to use, in whatever direction you want to ride it. It is not solely a downhill track. If parks management decide at some point to change it to a single direction track for safety reasons then fine, I will abide by whatever rules they want to put in place, but until then remember this is a public park for anyone to use.

Were you there this past weekend while the YYMTB Club was running a specific dh event on Cressy? If so i don't think its any wonder you copped a spray.

http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?129940-You-Yangs-MTB-Park&p=2425855#post2425855

 

[akashra]

Curious, did YYMI have a marshal at the bottom of the trail to stop riders climbing, or was there any clear signage at the base which might have deterred riders from going up?
Without that it would have been easy for anyone to not know an event was on.

 

[Puddleduck]

Tony1234, yep, my understanding is that Cressy Climb is a two way track or was prior to the maintenance closure. However the majority of riders (....99%?) use it to go down. Not looking to stir the pot but as most people of various skill levels use it as a descent track wouldn't it be better to use some of the other tracks to get to the top?

 

[Puddleduck]

Thought I had better check what teh YYMC say on the trail maps. Cressy Climb Long fast single track, combined with technical twisting sections. Best ridden from Stockyards car park down to Cressy Gully Road (down hill direction).

 

[tony1234]

Were you there this past weekend while the YYMTB Club was running a specific dh event on Cressy? If so i don't think its any wonder you copped a spray.

http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?129940-You-Yangs-MTB-Park&p=2425855#post2425855

No I'm not talking about when the DH event was on. I have no issue with that. And I have no issue if Parks (Not YYMTB) want to make it a single direction track.
My issue is having ridden at You Yangs for 10 plus years, and always used Cressy as a climb that I'm copping abuse from a couple of mouthy teenageers who are just standing on the edge of the track taking photos or video or whatever with their I Phones and not riding anyway.
Maybe I should have mentioned that on the day I was talking about, I never had any issue with the riders that were riding it downhill, they all acknowledged that it's up to them to give way, but they didn't have to because I got out of their way. Isn't that what this etiquette thing is all about????
For what it's worth I think the trail crews at the You Yangs have done a fantastic job, I had spent many hours working up there long before the YYMTB came along, I just think Parks need to step in a make a decision on a couple of tracks as to whether they are dedicated single direction or not in the interest of everyone's safety and enjoyment of the park.

 

[crank1979]

2. Give way to climbing riders this might spoil your flow but gravity will help you get it back. A dab free trip up your nemesis climb is a rare and precious thing.

I never had any issue with the riders that were riding it downhill, they all acknowledged that it's up to them to give way, but they didn't have to because I got out of their way.

It might have been good etiquette to give way to an uphill rider in the days of fully rigid bikes, but it is generally safer for the uphill rider to give way to downhill riders when they will possibly be coming down a lot faster on their FS bikes than they used to be able to on their old rigid bikes.

There are always exceptions, but I think the idea of giving way to uphill riders is not the right thing to do anymore.

 

[akashra]

It might have been good etiquette to give way to an uphill rider in the days of fully rigid bikes, but it is generally safer for the uphill rider to give way to downhill riders when they will possibly be coming down a lot faster on their FS bikes than they used to be able to on their old rigid bikes.

There are always exceptions, but I think the idea of giving way to uphill riders is not the right thing to do anymore.

Part of the point of this principle is to keep speeds in check and down to a safe level. By putting the onus on the descending rider, you are placing the responsibility on them to ensure they keep to a speed where they can at any time stop to avoid any situation which might arise. There seems to be this sense of entitlement to treat trails like they are a race track at any time, and this is just simply not the right mentality. If you want to bomb down trails where through only your fault due to speed alone you can cause the death or serious injury of another trail user (or yourself), do it on a closed trail without other users around who are well within their rights to be on the trail.

The argument you're putting forward is the equivalent of road users saying bikes shouldn't be on the roads because it's too risky, and similarly it's more and more starting to seem like downhill riders are become the equivalent menace normal road users see all cyclists because of the way a few idiots act.

 

[crank1979]

Part of the point of this principle is to keep speeds in check and down to a safe level. By putting the onus on the descending rider, you are placing the responsibility on them to ensure they keep to a speed where they can at any time stop to avoid any situation which might arise. There seems to be this sense of entitlement to treat trails like they are a race track at any time, and this is just simply not the right mentality. If you want to bomb down trails where through only your fault due to speed alone you can cause the death or serious injury of another trail user (or yourself), do it on a closed trail without other users around who are well within their rights to be on the trail.

The argument you're putting forward is the equivalent of road users saying bikes shouldn't be on the roads because it's too risky, and similarly it's more and more starting to seem like downhill riders are become the equivalent menace normal road users see all cyclists because of the way a few idiots act.

What I mean is that the uphill rider will be going slower and it will be easier for them to give way. The idea that a rider descending has to give way to a rider climbing is not the safest option. A rider climbing will generally be more aware of a rider descending than the other way around too. If trails are able to be ridden in both directions then I agree that a safe descending speed and awareness of trail conditions like blind corners is needed, but a descending rider has as much right to enjoy the descent as a climber has to enjoy the climb. It doesn't matter which rider pulls over, they are going to be inconvenienced, but I still believe it is safer for the uphill rider to give way in most situations.

 

[akashra]

What I mean is that the uphill rider will be going slower and it will be easier for them to give way. The idea that a rider descending has to give way to a rider climbing is not the safest option. A rider climbing will generally be more aware of a rider descending than the other way around too. If trails are able to be ridden in both directions then I agree that a safe descending speed and awareness of trail conditions like blind corners is needed, but a descending rider has as much right to enjoy the descent as a climber has to enjoy the climb. It doesn't matter which rider pulls over, they are going to be inconvenienced, but I still believe it is safer for the uphill rider to give way in most situations.

Option A: Slow rider ascending, Fast rider descending. Has the potential for injury of either party.
Option B: Slow rider ascending, Slow rider descnding. Has very little potential for injury of either party.

It's a no-brainer to me.

 

[crank1979]

Option A: Slow rider ascending, Fast rider descending. Has the potential for injury of either party.
Option B: Slow rider ascending, Slow rider descnding. Has very little potential for injury of either party.

It's a no-brainer to me.

That gives me the impression you want both riders to be travelling at similar speeds. For the descending rider, unless it's a really technical descent, there can't be much fun in riding down a hill thinking 'I have to ride down here at about the same speed I would be doing if I was riding up here'. In any case, which rider will be able to stop quicker and in a shorter distance to then be able to safely give way to the other rider?

I used to always think uphill riders had right of way. That's what I learned early on from other riders, magazines, internet, shops, etc, and always because it's harder for a climber to restart; but experience in both directions tells me it's safer for the uphill rider to give way to the descending rider. A descending rider needs to accept responsibility for their interactions with climbers, but I now believe it's easier and safer for a climber to give way and then restart their climb.

 

[akashra]

I don't know if you're missing the point, or are deliberately ignoring it.

 

[crank1979]

I'm not trying to antagonise, so ít's possible I'm not getting your point.

However, if your point is that descending riders need to ride slow because they may encounter a rider coming up the hill then I disagree if the speed needs to be slow enough that any enjoyment of the descent is lost. I think that if a descending rider is riding at a fast speed that is still sensible for the conditions and they meet a climber they will both need to make an effort to avoid each other, but it is much easier for the climber to get out of the way than it is for the descender.