RS Super Deluxe air vs Fox DPX2
- Thread starter Oddjob
- Start date
Oddjob
Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Stock shock is a Deluxe rt3. Going off previous experience that won't provide enough support and I'll overheat it pretty quickly.
That's why I'm interested in the Super Deluxe rct and the DPX2 which both provide low speed compression control. I'd also consider a Manitou Mara Pro if the size I need was in stock anywhere.
I've already got a CCDBA, Float X2, Topaz T3 on other bikes so want to try something different.
As for tuning, I can copy the tune off the stock shock but its likely to be balls for my weight. Avalanche offers tuning for both shocks or I can get a Vorsung Tractive kit for the Super Deluxe.
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That's why I'm interested in the Super Deluxe rct and the DPX2 which both provide low speed compression control. I'd also consider a Manitou Mara Pro if the size I need was in stock anywhere.
I've already got a CCDBA, Float X2, Topaz T3 on other bikes so want to try something different.
As for tuning, I can copy the tune off the stock shock but its likely to be balls for my weight. Avalanche offers tuning for both shocks or I can get a Vorsung Tractive kit for the Super Deluxe.
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Ultra Lord
Hurts. Requires Money. And is nerdy.
Ewwwww trunnion.
Oddjob
Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Yeah I know. But its not going to get too much sideloading in a Liteville 301.
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Ultra Lord
Hurts. Requires Money. And is nerdy.
Trust ze germans to figure out how to polish a turd.
Also, vote one RS. Keep it black and stealthy.
Also, vote one RS. Keep it black and stealthy.
SummitFever
Eats Squid
I've got the DPX2 on my Trance 29er and it's the first shock in a long time that I haven't pulled apart almost immediately and revalved. I'm tempted to get a Super Deluxe as a spare shock (and to do the comparison). I went away from Fox shocks a while ago because of poor parts availability for at-home repair. That's probably still the case, but at least the Fox website now has the full manuals available and also details of all of the shim stacks: https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=854
Oddjob
Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Cool thanks, the DPX2 is looking like the front runner. Although in my heart of hearts I really want a Manitou Mara Pro but don't feel like paying over $1000 for it.
For shits and giggles I wrote to Avalanche suspension inquiring about getting a shock modded:
"Hi,
I'm looking to send you an air shock for a Liteville 301 mk14 29er. This takes a 205x65 trunnion and I've attached a pdf showing the leverage ratio curve. I'm about 310 pounds in full kit which requires ~300 psi for correct sag with the stock Deluxe rt. I'm a sport all-mountain rider.
I have a few questions for you:
-I'm tossing up between a Super Deluxe and a DPX2, what would you recommend for a heavier rider like me?
-I tend to run a lot of lsc in my shocks to try to counteract the impact my weight has on pedal bob. Would you reccomend the Pedal only/Firmer SSD/HSB low speed Threshold option?
-Is it possible to also purchase the parts for the regular Descend/Pedal SSD/HSB low speed Threshold option? I'm based in Australia so its prohibitive to send the shock back to you.
-Finally the availability of trunnion shocks is a bit patchy. Do the Super Deluxe and DPX2 just use spacers to reduce the stroke length down to 60 and 57.5mm?"
This is what I got back:
Its not possible to send the parts, sorry.
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Prohibitive to send the shock?? Back and forth is less than $100 but yeah typical response from Craig when he is under the pump or not interested lol
It's hard to make a call on which of those two shocks is better for your frame. I've used both shocks and I've had frames that liked the DPX2 and hated the SD and other frames that liked the SD but the DPX2 felt terrible. Can you post the leverage curve on here for info too?
It's hard to make a call on which of those two shocks is better for your frame. I've used both shocks and I've had frames that liked the DPX2 and hated the SD and other frames that liked the SD but the DPX2 felt terrible. Can you post the leverage curve on here for info too?
safreek
*******
Muscle?
SummitFever
Eats Squid
Not a particularly helpful response, but the install might be quite complicated or Avalanche might modify some of the internal components so they may need the whole shock.
I think the Vorsprung fractive kit for the Super Deluxe is the same deal, he won't ship them.
Both kits require complete disassembly of the rear shock and this probably puts it beyond the ability of most back-yarders.
At 300lbs you will most certainly need a custom rebound tune to control shock extension under the much higher air pressures you need to run. Ideally, you want a rear shock that has the largest air piston head surface area which will mean you get to run lower air pressure. I've never searched for a shock on this basis so I can't recommend one off the top of my head, but that's where I'd be starting.
I'm not sure where you can get these measurements from, but it is possible if the manufacturers have technical drawings available or they have specs for the seals then you can work out the diameters. For example, here's an exploded view of the DPX2. Air piston surface area is the surface area of the donut with OD = piston seal head and ID = shaft diameter.
SummitFever
Eats Squid
Support area = Pi * (OD/2)^2 - Pi * (ID/2)^2
or simplified
Support area = Pi/4 * ( OD^2 - ID^2)
Bigger the support area, the less pressure in the air can you need to run and the less likely you are to run up against the max. air can pressure.
I'm not sure of the actual measurements, but I understand that the DPX2 has a larger shaft than the DPS which actually means if you keep the seal head outer diameter the same that you will need higher air pressure in the DPX2 than the DPS all other things being equal.
or simplified
Support area = Pi/4 * ( OD^2 - ID^2)
Bigger the support area, the less pressure in the air can you need to run and the less likely you are to run up against the max. air can pressure.
I'm not sure of the actual measurements, but I understand that the DPX2 has a larger shaft than the DPS which actually means if you keep the seal head outer diameter the same that you will need higher air pressure in the DPX2 than the DPS all other things being equal.
Oddjob
Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Us postal costs are off the hook. From memory it was over $100 one way for my avalanche damper 2 years ago.
See https://mrblackmorescorner.blogspot.com/search/label/Liteville 301 MK14 2018?m=1
Don't be naive. I have a superb dad body. I'm also lying about my weight
.It's a ridiculously lazy response, why bother responding at all? If he can't be bothered to answer, I can't be bothered to buy.Not a particularly helpful response, but the install might be quite complicated or Avalanche might modify some of the internal components so they may need the whole shock.
I think the Vorsprung fractive kit for the Super Deluxe is the same deal, he won't ship them.
Both kits require complete disassembly of the rear shock and this probably puts it beyond the ability of most back-yarders.
At 300lbs you will most certainly need a custom rebound tune to control shock extension under the much higher air pressures you need to run. Ideally, you want a rear shock that has the largest air piston head surface area which will mean you get to run lower air pressure. I've never searched for a shock on this basis so I can't recommend one off the top of my head, but that's where I'd be starting.
I'm not sure where you can get these measurements from, but it is possible if the manufacturers have technical drawings available or they have specs for the seals then you can work out the diameters. For example, here's an exploded view of the DPX2. Air piston surface area is the surface area of the donut with OD = piston seal head and ID = shaft diameter.
So at this stage it looks like a custom DPX2 from Mtb Suspension Centre or a Mara Pro if I can wait for a couple of weeks/months? Lauchie at Mtb Suspension Centre wasn't that keen on the Super Deluxe even with the tractive kit. He thought that the DPX2 was fundamentally a better design that would respond better to custom tuning.
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Oddjob
Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
@Zaf what have you done with @Tubbsy?
I'm not so OCD about keeping everything euro. I don't even necessarily need a custom shock. What I do need is a trunnnion piggyback shock to manage heat and a good range of lsc adjustment to manage pedal bob. The tight fit of the Liteville also makes things tricky, so coils are out and even the Float X2 is out.
I really want a Mara Pro but they are still rarer then hens teeth. Manitou only ship within the US, so after freight forwarding it would be over $1000 same if I buy from Shockcraft in NZ.
The custom side of things only came into it as I could get cheap secondhand trunnion shocks in the states, so I thought about getting something sent to Avalanche and then posted to me. Mtb suspension centre also have a secondhand trunnion DPX2 that they could mod for me. Both those options come in around $600
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The Euro matchy matchy wasn’t really the main reasoning, more that it’s available in your size, boasts of great heat management, has LSC adjustment and has been tested on a Liteville.
Seems to tick all boxes, albeit at twice the price.
I imagine öhlins would have something suitable too.
www.bike24.com
Seems to tick all boxes, albeit at twice the price.
I imagine öhlins would have something suitable too.
ÖHLINS TTX2 Air Universal Trunnion Rear Shock - 205x65mm
ÖHLINS ▶ Air version of the TTX22 M with twin tube design for outstanding response and control. ▶ Model: 205x65mm
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Flow-Rider
Burner
That's their generic response, I've had the same. Not worth dealing with if you ask me, just imagine the headache you'll go through if there's something that needs to be warranted from them.
Oddjob
Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Unfortunately the Ohlins runs into the same linkage fouling problem as the X2 with the aircan.The Euro matchy matchy wasn’t really the main reasoning, more that it’s available in your size, boasts of great heat management, has LSC adjustment and has been tested on a Liteville.
Seems to tick all boxes, albeit at twice the price.
I imagine öhlins would have something suitable too.
ÖHLINS TTX2 Air Universal Trunnion Rear Shock - 205x65mm
ÖHLINS ▶ Air version of the TTX22 M with twin tube design for outstanding response and control. ▶ Model: 205x65mm
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Z
Zaf
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