RS Super Deluxe air vs Fox DPX2

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Get a Meg Neg for the Super Deluxe and see how that goes?
I could, but the cost would be ~$850 for the Super Deluxe rct. Which doesn't strike me as great value given that my suspension workshop don't think they are that good.

DT Swiss R535 ONE is also a solid option. I was running an R414 on my Yeti to really good effect, which is the non-metric version of the same shock. I wanted to get one for my Nicolai, but couldn't find one in stock in my sizes by the times things came around... Still googling for them and trying to grab one at a good price.



@Tubbsy was an esteemed gentleman without my input, and his suggestion rocks!!! I would also like to suggest the NitroShock as an alternative... But who knows when they'll actually produce anything but a prototype for that. That being said, I couldn't bring myself to spend up on the Intend fork at the time of building my G15...as much as I still want one, it's just a huge amount of money to throw down on it.

Or hold out for an MRP Jackson if you have to have an air configuration. If you're considering a coil, I'm only going to recommend the EXT at this point.
R535 and Mrp Jackson don't have piggybacks so would have limited oil and overheat quickly and really shorten service intervals.

Ext and pretty much all coils are out due to fouling. The nutcracker linkage doesn't leave a lot of room at the eyelet end.



Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Hmm, dunno. Doesn't seem like heaps to me but I guess it could work with a firm enough spring. The regressive (?) ratio at the start made it look flatter than it is when I glanced at it earlier.

I know it's a flatter curve - but I tried a coil on this, and it just fell through the travel. Felt like it would've needed a lot more progression to have any bottom-out resistance at all. Coil was a slighty undersprung (but not massively) and I have bugger all other coil experience though, so take that with a pinch of salt.



It's often something I've wondered about reading reviews - Most of the reviews I've read that suggest "good for coil" seem to have rates that start arounf 2.7 - 3 and fall to just above 2. Is there some magic number amount of progression where things suddenly become "coilable"?
 

SummitFever

Eats Squid
The way I read that liteville 301 curve it has less shock travel as the real wheel get deeper into ots travel. This is the sort of falling rate curve designed for an air shock which by their nature have a rising rate spring. It does not look like the sort of curve best matched with a coil spring (which has a linear rate spring).
 

kiwiinmelb

Likes Dirt
There is an aussie guy on you tube called MTB telly , he is quite good with suspension set up info

He did a few videos on exactly that ,

he had a dpx2 and a Super deluxe, interchanged them on his bike and made comparisons , the super deluxe came out in front for him
 

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
The shock is quite big and has much larger oil volume than other inline shocks. It also has recommended service intervals that are twice what Fox and Rockshox have, going at 200hrs for a full breakdown and 100hrs for a small service. Also, straight from their documentation:



Also reminds me of when Rockshox were doing tests with air vs coil with Sam Hill, and were showing that even on high heat build up he was generating, they couldn't replicate any statistical significant change in damping performance. I think it's largely something that has been engineered out of shock design these days, they are robust enough to just run hot.


EDIT:
Found the Sam Hill heat quote
Those are the reccomended intervals, but I know from experience that a heavy guy with the adjusters wound right up can significantly shorten those intervals.

My record was 20 hours on a 216x63 Monarch before I was getting cavitation knock.

I'm getting closer to the recomended intervals with the Vivid and Float X2 but this could be partly down to the circulating architecture.

Found a video ,

Cheers. I will have a watch.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
 

SummitFever

Eats Squid
...My record was 20 hours on a 216x63 Monarch before I was getting cavitation knock...
Building a reliable shock for big units is hard.

The firmer valving plus high air pressures in the air can means more pressure in the IFP to avoid cavitation. The IFP is a small volume of high pressure air that will escape over time. The higher the pressure, the quicker it escapes. Larger guys also flex the frame more which in turn side loads all of the seals in the shock which increases leakage. Trunion shocks only make this worse.
 

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Building a reliable shock for big units is hard.

The firmer valving plus high air pressures in the air can means more pressure in the IFP to avoid cavitation. The IFP is a small volume of high pressure air that will escape over time. The higher the pressure, the quicker it escapes. Larger guys also flex the frame more which in turn side loads all of the seals in the shock which increases leakage. Trunion shocks only make this worse.
Yep. The only good thing about all this for me is how stiff the linkage setup of rhe Liteville is.

My experience has been that the twin tube shocks tend to put less stress through the shock fluid. Eg Float X2, Vivid, CCDB etc. And that diaphragm works better than IFP. Eg Topaz or the CCDB with the diaphragm mod.

So in a perfect world a Trunnion CCDBA with a diaphragm would be the way to go but the air can fouls the Liteville linkage.

The second best option is the Manitou Mara with its flexible low pressure IFP and separate circuit design. But there is limited availability and its expensive. The Intend Hover is even more so.

Third option is looking like a DPX2 or Super Deluxe rct. The DPX2 will probably have a longer service life but less small bump sensitivity. Super Deluxe will be more sensitive but will be shorter service life amd I will be tempted by Tractive revalve and Megneg kit bringing the price way up.

So at this point its looking like a Mara if I can be patient or a Dpx2 if I crack it.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
 

yuley95

soft-arse Yuley is on the lifts again
Yep. The only good thing about all this for me is how stiff the linkage setup of rhe Liteville is.

My experience has been that the twin tube shocks tend to put less stress through the shock fluid. Eg Float X2, Vivid, CCDB etc. And that diaphragm works better than IFP. Eg Topaz or the CCDB with the diaphragm mod.

So in a perfect world a Trunnion CCDBA with a diaphragm would be the way to go but the air can fouls the Liteville linkage.

The second best option is the Manitou Mara with its flexible low pressure IFP and separate circuit design. But there is limited availability and its expensive. The Intend Hover is even more so.

Third option is looking like a DPX2 or Super Deluxe rct. The DPX2 will probably have a longer service life but less small bump sensitivity. Super Deluxe will be more sensitive but will be shorter service life amd I will be tempted by Tractive revalve and Megneg kit bringing the price way up.

So at this point its looking like a Mara if I can be patient or a Dpx2 if I crack it.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
If you buy a dpx2, how likely is it you will then end up also buying a Mara at some stage as that’s what you really want?
 

SummitFever

Eats Squid
Yep. The only good thing about all this for me is how stiff the linkage setup of rhe Liteville is.

My experience has been that the twin tube shocks tend to put less stress through the shock fluid. Eg Float X2, Vivid, CCDB etc. And that diaphragm works better than IFP. Eg Topaz or the CCDB with the diaphragm mod.
Spot on. The twin tube shocks circulate the oil rather than dead ending it up against the IFP.

See if you can pick up a DPX2 on the cheap. Small bump has been excellent on my Trance. It's always handy to have a spare. Once the Mara is available in quantity then it will probably be subject to the normal heavy discounting.
 
Top