Training Log Schred's FTP builder for better w/kg

schred

Likes Bikes and Dirt
In honour of SJP's thread I have also started working on FTP a few weeks ago before being interrupted for a week, and now sick. Anyway it's the basic 12 week ftp builder that's offered as part of Zwift, and I'm in week 2. The reason why I'd like to increase FTP is to boost the numerator side of the power-to-weight equation which I'll explain more below. Big picture goal is to actually get on track in the real world and duke it out in the local crits. From what I can tell I'd prob do ok in C grade as but as I have NFI what I'm doing, and I still don't have a bike, I'd rather just work on the engine in these remaining months and have a crack first thing next year. It's also doing no harm to my mtb riding at all.

Background is I've been enjoying some Zwift races since Feb this year, generally 2-3 races a week of late each 35-50km in length. But I regularly get munched at around the 20km mark where I lose the lead pack and drift, and I really suck on the sustained climbs, in fact I usually get dropped if I don't see the move, I can't bridge for sh1t anything more than a few s despite being a solid sprinter (comparitive to the e-racers), and if I do I explode shortly after, and to be quite honest I'm at the low end of the B category limits which means across anything longer than 30km and I really get my a$$ handed to me and that sucks right about now. I'm not pretending this is real life for a second, but my results are real enough to me to want to improve it.

Following the principle of 'don't get bitter, get better' (Fabio?) and after speaking with & observing e-racers in e-land and real world roady scum at local crits, I have plucked a lofty figure out of the air and reckon a power to weight approaching 4.0w/kg is what is required to return a few favours. And so over the next few months, I am not sure how long but hoping it is around 6 but under 12 as that's the extent of my interests these days, I will increase my power to weight from it's current ~3.5w/kg to a target of 4.0w/kg. More than that 4 would be ace. The weight side of things has been good so far dropping 9kg since feb this year and is now 77kg, which is surprising given its still kfc/mcsh1t & many beers a week , but I'm changing). Current FTP is ~271w on the Elite Drivo, which is allegedly 1% accurate, so that's the baseline I'm working with.

Obviously, the whole target "4.0" equation can be tweaked a bit, e.g. if aiming for 4.0, I can maintain my mass but need to jack up the FTP power to 308w, or more. Or lose another 10kg, or more, and I'll be sweet with current FTP. In reality it's going to be a combo of both. I think 75kg/300w feels about right as far as each target is concerned to get to 4.0, but both seem a very long way away atm (can drop weight but sustaining power is not easy). I also think the FTP tests can be gamed by practicing them and knowing what your body can tolerate and sustain, but that's pretty much racecraft anyway so fair enough!

I'm also trying to do the training in addition to the zwift races atm, but it's a bit sh1t as I can only do the training after the racing, so I will prob progressively cut the racing back and focus more on doing the training as it increases. I'll try to remember to post weekly updates, hopefully not too boring. BTW I'm not expecting an FTP boost of 30w in 12weeks. But 10-20w would be nice, combined with realistic weight loss it might see 3.75-3.8 by Dec, or more, fingers crossed and injuries avoided.
 

slider_phil

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Sounds like an achievable goal! I've just started on a fitness journey myself after a particularly wet winter which saw me buy a smart trainer and give Zwift a try. Has gotten me interested in learning more about training and thus pushing me to do spend time actually training not just the 1 to 2 MTB rides a week.

4.0w/kg would be sweet. My FTP currently puts me at 2.85w/kg so my current goal is to try and build it to over 3. Current weight is 77kg too.
 

schred

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Cheers mate, you'll get to 3.0 very quickly don't worry. But I recommend you do races and I think you'll see immediate improvements, it pushes you way more than you normally would and it's basically risk free. Try new tactics, blow up & bow out, no problem.
 

schred

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Thanks mate, I'm sure you'll achieve your goal if you persevere and chase it down. The racing isn't for everybody but for me have been the most beneficial and motivational things. Unlike you I'm not doing anything mtb specific so I'll be interested to see how that goes for you, based on recent rides I reckon that 30-40-50km race endurance is pretty handy on the trails, mentally and physically.
 

schred

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Week 1 & 2 Update

2 weeks done now, and was laid up for 1.5wks in between so really makes this end of calendar week 3.

Zwift suggests these first two weeks are optional if you have some fitness, but I wanted to do it from start to finish anway and I'm glad I did.

I've noticed the training is very different to racing as it's the exact same wattages over and over, so the legs don't get that much rest vs. all the variation in racing, and physically the body remains almost fixed the whole time which is not great esp on the man bits. It's also compounded by the way zwift 'fails' you if you don't do the exact work specified which discourages you from doing anything different, power wise. I don't give a sh1t about passing or failing as I'm doing the work anyway, but subconsciously you stick more to the workout than I thought I would.

Quick summary

Week 1 - Foundation/intro style workouts, pretty easy low impact intervals, esp compared to the racing, but made tougher by doing it with the racing.
D1 race before workout - 29.7km 259 avg
D1 - 26.5km 164w avg
D2 - 19.8km 169w avg
D3 - 24.4km 185w avg
D3 race after workout - 21km 283 avg
D4 race before workout - 38.3km 275w avg
D4 - 26.3km 175w avg

Week 2 - Some foundation and slightly tougher intervals towards the end. I was surprised how much I felt it in the legs by the 5th & 6th interval despite lower wattages, maybe due to the monotony of the cadence & power, and maybe also lingering illness. Given that, I've stopped the racing for now and have instead upped the FTP bias on which the interval efforts are calculated (as % of FTP) as they were a bit easy, as expected for an optional week 2 that most people prob don't do.
D1 race before workout - 11.8km 281w avg (40km race I ended early as the pace was pretty high)
D1 - 27.6km 170w avg
D2 - 14.9km 184w avg (skipped most of the rest blocks as it was easy even with 110% FTP bias and had to be somewhere)
D3 - 25.6km 176w avg
D4 - 29.9km 199w avg

Still early days, but I can see that slogging it out at uncomfortable wattages over and over might be beneficial and I can feel the workouts are getting progressively harder already. In really inappropriate simple terms, I'm guessing the racing pulls the FTP up, and this training pushes it up.

Bring on week 3.
 

schred

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Yeah it's a bit average when you realise it. Strangely the same seat is no problem for other riding, so I'll fiddle around with it and might just stand up every 5mins for a bit.
 

schred

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Week 3 - A week of varying intervals, some with more intensity and more reps. Made tougher by a bout of gastro from the kid which struck on Tues which really knocked me about, then flattened for 2 days. Got on the bike yesterday and really couldn't spin more than 75rpm which sucks for power training. Today (D4) was a little better cadence wise but in both cases I ended the workout at approx 75% work completed, not worth pushing too hard in recovery mode. On the plus side I'm temporarily below target weight but given how sh1t I feel/am riding, I can see it needing to go back up soon. Or maybe I could revise target weight even further down as it goes on, we'll see.

D1 - 30.9km 200w avg
D2 - 32.6km 198w avg
D3 - 22km 164w avg
D4 - 27.7km 183w avg

Hoping to get past these illnesses to have crack at doing a full amount next week.
 

schred

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Week 4 Done

Week 4 - A low stress week of intervals; foundation (is that a zwift thing? low wattage/low hr/low impact?) SFR, and a bit of tempo. Felt much better after last week, cadence was up again, so is weight, and the boredom and longish duration of this exercise has hit home and I'm starting to miss the racing which was the reason I am doing this. So I did a v.short 10km race after the D3 training as I was feeling good, to my surprise I damn well won the race and avg power output was good too despite a fair amount of coasting and drafting. So there maybe something in the training yet, I might even do a sneaky ftp test around wk 6 and see how it goes. Left foot/knee is doing some weird stuff, it can't stay in a good position despite many corrections, it's like the cleat keeps reverting back to the previous position, really frustrating when you notice it at the start of a session.

D1 - 20.9km 177w avg
D2 - 24km 195w avg
D3 - 32.2km 187w avg
D3 Race - 10.3km 287w avg
D4 - 23.8km 188w avg
 

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Left foot/knee is doing some weird stuff, it can't stay in a good position despite many corrections, it's like the cleat keeps reverting back to the previous position, really frustrating when you notice it at the start of a session.
What pedals/shoes are you running? Might be worth investigating road cleats with more platform like Look Keos or going for super adjustability with Speedplays.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
 

schred

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Thanks man, good call, they are the cheapest Shimano road pedal and equally cheap Shimano road shoes, rp3, with the yellow cleats which I thought have more float. I'vee lubed it up, riding now, but might even trim the cleat next after doing other less obvious checks e.g.all square and true on the trainer and not leaning or misaligned elsewhere.
 

schred

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Week 5

Week 5 - Quick update, has been a tougher week than previous ones, a few slower & lower intervals, but now a few longer ones with a bit of intensity in Z3 & Z4, and some of it has been pretty painful tbh. Was feeling ok on D3 so did a race beforehand, wasn't the best outcome after missing a break early on but avg power was fair and had a few good decisive battles. Have realised these km's are starting to add up and much more than I'm used, legs are starting to get noticeably fatigued as the week goes on. Weight wise is better than expected and on track. In terms of that dodgy cleat, I checked over the bike and a few things I didn't think of which resulted in straightening up the bike & cockpit, seems improved, though I think something is broken as the float is sticky and the foot can click around in the pedal under big power, but I can live with it for the time being.

D1 - 39.7km 202w avg
D2 - 25km 175w avg
D3 Race - 42.8km 256w avg
D3 - 28.8km 170w avg
D4 - 42.3km 199w avg
 

schred

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Week 6

Week 6 - Combined with a few solid mtb rides it's been hard to fit it the training, & legs feel a bit rooted atm. Not sure if it's system shock or trying to do more with less fuel, but I'm not really recovering so might take a week off before weeks 7-12 where there is a sh1tload of work right at FTP.

I found some free cycling software and uploaded some data from last 6mths. It generated a power curve (amongst other things) based on actual data which is great but historical, and I don't think able to predict or forecast anything useful about FTP potential. I'll update it with any good data over next 6 weeks, incl an FTP test before wk 12 if I get to it.

D1 - 34.4km 196w avg
D2 - 31.4km 209w avg
D3 Race - 18.7km TT 277w avg
D3 - 26.2km 187w avg
D4 - 43.6km 205w avg
D5 - Never got to it, might do it tomorrow as the rains are ere so no mtb riding
 

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schred

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Comfort break

Comfort break between Wk 6 & 7 - Nothing going on this week training-wise. New bike on weds and ran ftp test on it shortly after for no real reason, although results may not be 100% comparable etc. But I figured I have more variation ordinarily than a few watts due to different bike or drive train setup. Revised ftp was a whopping 4w higher. However given how much I fcked the test up execution wise, I'm pretty sure I can better it.

D1 FTP Test - 28.5km 211w avg
D2 Race - 30.1km 268w avg, best overall w/kg over that distance

Back to the plan next week
 

schred

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Week 7

Week 7 - Just over half way, it's 5 days a week now + normal riding. Not much to report, mentally feeling a bit more comfortable riding at and around threshold though physically it still sucks. Some sessions were pretty uncomfortable, at one point on D4 I thought the trainer was fcking with me getting harder and harder, but it was just my legs giving up towards the end of the session unable to keep spinning. Onwards and upwards.

D1 - 34.8km 190w avg
D2 - 36.4km 185w avg
D3 - 37.5km 194w avg
D4 - 48.6km 203w avg
D5 - 26.8km 167w avg
 

Matze

Squid
Love this diary Schred, and great effort so far!

Can you give more detail of how some of these training sessions look like, i.e. interval lengths, effort level, etc. Is this all based on Zwift or are you following a program from elsewhere?

Cheers
 

schred

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Cheers man, fair question about what's behind the #'s, I admit it isn't too meaningful as is. But I didn't want to over-complicate a pretty simple idea of just getting faster. I don't look at the workouts until that day tbh, that's the beauty and terror of the smart trainer in ERG mode - you get on and pedal, Zwift controls the rest. Doesn't matter what gear you are in, it will ensure you are hitting the required power #'s at whatever cadence, but it rewards higher cadence in that regard. 300w at 95rpm is a sh1tload easier to turn than 300w at 75rpm, even noticeably easier than at 90rpm. So yeah, you just need to keep the pedals turning. For the next few sessions I might also try non-ERG so I can practice hitting power numbers by feel vs being told what they are.

All the sessions are all from zwift, prepared by somebody who hopefully knows what they are doing, there's a small library but this is from the 12wk FTP booster. You can see them all here https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/10-12wk-ftp-builder

The largest interval duration has so far been 2x25m but normally it's much less, with total sessions between 1hr to 1.5hrs.

Effort levels seem to vary between 70-100% of FTP, with rest at approx 50%. Intensity hasn't been too bad apart from D4 last week, it's been pretty incremental all the way through, and it builds up through the week as well. I do feel it in the legs by the end of the week, but a weekend mtb ride is still easy and mtb fitness is approaching best ever.

I've attached an example of today's D4 workout, and last week's D4 workout which was pretty awful with 4x5mins@ftp after 2x12mins tempo. I do think the trainer loses its way after about an hour of decent effort, maybe heat related.

I'm also conscious this thread is pretty dry going, even for me, so I'll combine with a weekly update.

Week 8 - Not as bad as last week, spotted a short race (~15mins) midweek prior to a session, prob could have challenged for outright win but blew the start when I shot off the front 10s ahead of the pack and couldn't make the small break when it happened after reforming with the pack, because I was already half stuffed from my idiotic start. Rest of the workouts were long and slow foundation style intervals with a little kick at the end on D4 for threshold development.

D1 - 30.6km 179w avg
D2 Race - 11.4km 311w avg (Cat B win and PR woot)
D2 - 33.3km 181w avg
D3 - 32.2km 192w avg
D4 - 44.8km 205w avg
D5 - 26.6km 205w avg - made a crit-style workout based on time & power observations at the track

PS left shoe is sh1tting itself again, think the sole might be shagged as well cleat slipping. Issue was partially resolved with new r8000 pedals but keeps returning under power >250w. I have new rc7 shoes which I didn't want to train on but they feel like magic in comparison, rock solid 'ahhh' feeling, feels like legs are directly attached to the bike.
 

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Matze

Squid
Thanks for the detailed explanation mate, that is seriously good work! I was very curious about the workouts, funnily enough my numbers are the same 3.5 W/kg and 78kg, and alss wanted to reach the 'magic 4' but my training hasn't been structured much, mainly have been using the wattbike hub app on a wattbike, but mixing it up from there.

Keen to see the results of your next FTP test, good luck!
 

schred

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Me too, still a bit concerned this could be 12weeks misspent if there's no real improvement.
 
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