Training Log Schred's FTP builder for better w/kg

[schred]

Week 9 - Some threshold development intervals this week spending ~25-30mins total at FTP. More psychologically tough as they were pretty short 5min intervals, compared to say riding at that intensity for 60mins which is what FTP is supposed to represent. TBH wasn't really feeling it after last few weeks and nearly pulled the pin, but I figured these last few weeks are prob where the real action and improvement will happen, so have kept going.

Also had a bit of a brainwave on the wandering left shoe issue. It feels like each foot is effectively slave to the other one, and the left one for whatever reason generally follows the right one. So I think it's actually the right foot moving around, but not sure why apart from old injuries, maybe leading to technique breakdown at higher power, i don't know. I'm imagine this would also only be a trainer issue due to fixed position including where you are looking, how the bike is set up etc etc.

D1 - 32.7km 202w avg
D2 - 46.9km 209w avg
D3 - Low impact/recovery, CBF doing, did some stretching instead. Legs and quads are constantly stiff and heavy.
D4 - 43.6km 217w avg
D5 - 16.2km 189w avg

 

[schred]

Week 10 - A few longer sessions and some overunder intervals for threshold development which I've never done. Pretty tough as there's no rest between the over and under component, and it was 2 sets of 20min intervals (over/under/over/under etc.). First attempt was at my optimistic FTP of 300 and I got my a$$ handed to me, prob psychologically more than anything, just seemed relentless and endless, stepped off the bike a few times then got back in it. Basically was riding at 300w for a few mins, then 'recovered' down at 260 for a bit longer, then up again. The recovery was actually harder than the big effort, although after a solid minute of painful recovery the legs and heart would recover a bit. Despite the pain, I realised this is pretty much my weakness in zwift: the pack surges ahead, then recovers at a relatively high and uncomfortable level. And you fall off the back if you can't keep it up. So I should prob do more of it. Adjusting the exertion level to equate to FTP of 280 made it very doable, so real FTP might lie somewhere in between 280 & 300. I also moved cockpit around a bit to use quads less and am now getting some mad pains on the side of my shins. Not much else to speak of, next week is the last real week of training then with wk 12 seems like final preparations.

Oh yeah, on the diet side weight roughly still on track for 75 although it bounces around a bit. Might be due to having first beers in 10 weeks and the KFC diet has struck again. It prob does make me slower but that salt is so good.

D1 - 50.3km 213w avg
D2 - 47.5km 211w avg
D3 - CBF as shins were killing and vino was calling
D4 - 42km 213w avg
D5 - 22.2km 274w avg - free riding and 1/2 a race to test overunder theory which went well

 

[Oddjob]

Week 10 - A few longer sessions and some overunder intervals for threshold development which I've never done. Pretty tough as there's no rest between the over and under component, and it was 2 sets of 20min intervals (over/under/over/under etc.). First attempt was at my optimistic FTP of 300 and I got my a$$ handed to me, prob psychologically more than anything, just seemed relentless and endless, stepped off the bike a few times then got back in it. Basically was riding at 300w for a few mins, then 'recovered' down at 260 for a bit longer, then up again. The recovery was actually harder than the big effort, although after a solid minute of painful recovery the legs and heart would recover a bit. Despite the pain, I realised this is pretty much my weakness in zwift: the pack surges ahead, then recovers at a relatively high and uncomfortable level. And you fall off the back if you can't keep it up. So I should prob do more of it. Adjusting the exertion level to equate to FTP of 280 made it very doable, so real FTP might lie somewhere in between 280 & 300. I also moved cockpit around a bit to use quads less and am now getting some mad pains on the side of my shins. Not much else to speak of, next week is the last real week of training then with wk 12 seems like final preparations.

Oh yeah, on the diet side weight roughly still on track for 75 although it bounces around a bit. Might be due to having first beers in 10 weeks and the KFC diet has struck again. It prob does make me slower but that salt is so good.

D1 - 50.3km 213w avg
D2 - 47.5km 211w avg
D3 - CBF as shins were killing and vino was calling
D4 - 42km 213w avg
D5 - 22.2km 274w avg - free riding and 1/2 a race to test overunder theory which went well

My experience with over/unders is that you want a tiny bit of stretch. I think I read somewhere 2-5%. The first time you do it, it should be eternal hell but the next time a little better etc etc etc. Creatine helps too.

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk

 

[schred]

Interesting, thanks. Do you mean the stretch is 2-5% over FTP? I am not sure how the under figure is/was derived, but appeared to be 87.3% of FTP.

The second time whilst physically easier was also mentally a sh1tload easier. I peeked ahead and there's more of it next week and week after, with the cycles getting shorter and the overs getting more frequent, I guess to simulate one continuous effort.

 

[Oddjob]

Interesting, thanks. Do you mean the stretch is 2-5% over FTP? I am not sure how the under figure is/was derived, but appeared to be 87.3% of FTP.

The second time whilst physically easier was also mentally a sh1tload easier. I peeked ahead and there's more of it next week and week after, with the cycles getting shorter and the overs getting more frequent, I guess to simulate one continuous effort.

2-5% over the zone 4/aerobic threshold. Ie the idea is to go into anaerobic then recover in high aerobic. Over/under/over/under. The idea is to train your body to increase your aerobic capacity. If it doesn't hurt your not doing it right.

Not sure how this relates to FTP but I'm assuming that Zwift is using the same idea to set the power number.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[schred]

Thanks, truth is I don't know much about it. I'm following the training and putting my faith in whoever designed it, but what you say makes sense from my limited understanding of things. As far as the terms go, seems there is a correlation between them all, but obv they aren't the same thing, and nobody willing to suggest you can swap the #'s in and out. Anyway I'll add a few % to the next overunder workout and see how it goes.

 

[schred]

Week 11 - More threshold development with the overs and unders. Was a bit more taxing with more reps and longer duration compared to last week's versions, and following the discussion above I did them based on 300w knowing it would be a struggle. It def was, but still doable - I prob can't take much more but the challenge when doing them is more mental than physical to hang in there. I also noticed I could push the power but the cadence dropped right down to below mid 80s by the end of the 2nd set of reps. That said, it coincides with the trainer ERG mode that sh1ts itself after about 45mins of decent work, maybe heat related. You are supposed to be able to spin at any cadence to turn the required power, so that in theory you should be able to spin up to any cadence and still push 300w. But after around 45mins, trying to spin the cranks only results in more power going through at the same cadence, pretty frustrating at crucial moments when you want the gear to be work well.

Weight is still on track and maybe even a bit below. Any weight benefits have been mostly indirect so far. I had previously tried to cut back on beer and mcsh1t-type food, but last week I let rip on all of it, and the beers after mtb ride yesterday (morning) tasted amazing. If they are in the fridge they are a goner.

I generally only have evenings after 8pm to do this stuff which is pretty sh1t on a few levels, and I only got to D5 tonight as I CBF doing it on a Fri night last week. I am glad to be onto the last week now. I'm figuring next tuesday is D-day for the test, cos I'm on hols on weds!

D1 - 40.3km 198w avg
D2 - 37.8km 210w avg
D3 - 39.4 203w avg
D4 - 21.4km 171w avg
D5 - 48.9km 223w avg

 

[schred]

Week 12 - Hmm, the end. What can you say, 3mths has come and gone. It's been a ride each day this week but was surprisingly manageable although painful. I couldn't help smiling doing the last proper interval yesterday, what a fcking relief that was. I was doing this week's workouts based on 315w as I felt pretty good last week. Although it was doable, and despite higher avg power numbers than normal, this week was supposed to be less stressful arrangement of workouts anyway, so I don't really draw anything from it.

In saying that, I've had quite a few little wins during training this week including a few little effforts that seemed to have filled in the first few minutes of the power curve (see pic below), which admittedly isn't much use to FTP but tends to show sprinting for more than a few s has improved for at least a few mins, so that's a plus. However, the updated power curve (which doesn't have all rides as it's maxed out free software) doesn't show much improvement at 20mins, but tbh

I haven't trained much out there recently. However, one effort this week rivalled my previous best 20min effort just 4w below it during 1hr 20m of intervals, so that bodes well for a proper focused 20min effort.

I've been thinking a bit about the test, including what power number I should aim for, cadence etc etc. So I was trying to look at historic results and draw something from the power curves, but seems like reading the tea leaves tbh. That's probably the point of FTP, it's not calculated, you just go and do it.

As to how I might do it, I've seen different ways e.g. start strong then fall off, start low and build up etc, smiley face, sad face output slope curves, but I'm more concerned with what number to aim for then try to remember overs/unders to recover if & as needed which I surely will. Last week I felt great, and with a bit of extra rest I thought anything from 315 up to 325 might be achievable, but this week something around 295-305 seems more realistic, and maybe even a stretch as there's a 5min all out effort before the test itself. Anyway I might aim to stay in that window of 305-325, with 315 the mid point to work around. My previous biggest mistakes in races has def been going too strong at the start, so holding back will be the key, but not so low that it's unrecoverable.

The 2nd trick is finding the cadence for it with the gears I have, I think I have a gear for it but time will tell as the cadence required for ~320w is 95-96 which is higher than I've trained with, but the alternate gear has such poor chainline you can feel the resistance pedalling.

Lastly I was reading how the test needs to be representative of your riding, so big power surges or stomping the pedals is not the done thing. Not sure about that one, my view is when you are racing or riding you do whatever you have to, to hang in there and get on top of things. So it's all fair game as far as I'm concerned. A big push towards the end just means I didn't get the power down early.

Nearly there.

D1 - 27.4km 211w avg
D2 - 36.3km 217w avg
D3 - 31.4 219w avg
D4 - 45.2km 230w avg
D5 - 18.4km 212w av

g

 

[Oddjob]

I've never done an FTP on a bike but I've done plenty of ergometers. I found the best way to do it was to start at a moderate pace and incrementally step it up.

The idea is to get the cellular metabolic system humming along and wait until the blood glucose has been consumed and the body was starting to draw on glycogen.

You can usually tell this is the case because your body will calm down from the initial shock of the effort and you will feel good rather than jittery with good controlled breathing.

Once you're there you can start to do 10-20 sec efforts with 20-40 sec breaks. With the efforts getting longer and the breaks getting shorter. It helps to have someone doing the timing for you and screaming at you. The last effort should be 1 minute and if you've done it right you should fall off at the end and want to vomit.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[schred]

Hmmm, I've been thinking this one over as it enters the area of nutrition that I've got equally NFI about - i.e. how certain foods impact performance. Some rides I've had those jitters, then had a gel snack and it triggered an instant craze to scoff bananas and energy bars on the spot. From an endurance perspective, what you say makes sense. I just had a quick look on google scholar and there's a bunch of articles that claim low-GI food pre workout can prolong endurance, decrease blood lactate before and during exercise amongst other things. Hmmm, I was planning on smashing a few gels before and during, but now I'm not so sure.

As far as FTP test goes, it's one continuous all-out effort for 20min vs series of bursts, but it can be a bit easier to think of it like minute 1-3, 3-7, 11-17, 18-20 etc, so pacing is important. It's not that funny, but you look at the clock, head down and pedal pedal pedal, look back up and not 2 sec has passed yet. Fark!

 

[caad9]

I was getting coached for about a 14 month period for XC MTB specific racing.

The 20min power never really improved like I'd hoped. It is difficult to manage, because you have to keep doing those efforts and they are taxing.
I'm also not great at proper training and often get severe cases of CBF.

My coach's theory was the first 15mins are workmanlike, with the aim to build for the last 5mins and be giving it everything at the end.
Sounds so easy on paper

 

[Oddjob]

As far as FTP test goes, it's one continuous all-out effort for 20min vs series of bursts, but it can be a bit easier to think of it like minute 1-3, 3-7, 11-17, 18-20 etc, so pacing is important. It's not that funny, but you look at the clock, head down and pedal pedal pedal, look back up and not 2 sec has passed yet. Fark!

20 mins is an eternity to hold aerobic threshold. Psychologically you might find it easier to wring out the last few % by doing efforts. That way you focus on counting down the effort, then count down the break etc.

Another good one is to have pacing. I.e. someone doing the test with you or a video of a cyclist up ahead but always seemingly just ahead. I was reading somewhere that pro athletes could stretch an extra 2% beyond their pb with pacing.



Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[schred]

My coach's theory was the first 15mins are workmanlike, with the aim to build for the last 5mins and be giving it everything at the end.
Sounds so easy on paper

That's interesting, I had thought the last few mins were almost the easiest as you can almost see the end and 2-3mins of all out power dump of what's left seems achievable vs that mid section of soul doubt. Maybe that's my untrained view. Following Oddjob's suggestion above that last 5min is the final section of an incremental effort, which prob does differentiate riders the most as I'd imagine you'd see all sorts of variations and trajectories amongst riders in those last 5mins.

20 mins is an eternity to hold aerobic threshold. Psychologically you might find it easier to wring out the last few % by doing efforts. That way you focus on counting down the effort, then count down the break etc.

Another good one is to have pacing. I.e. someone doing the test with you or a video of a cyclist up ahead but always seemingly just ahead. I was reading somewhere that pro athletes could stretch an extra 2% beyond their pb with pacing.

Great suggestions on both counts, I'm not sure how I'll factor it in yet but I'll think it over. The problem by that stage is getting the legs to turn over as fast as you want to them too, or think you want them to. I put the gears in a calculator and realised a spare cassette that has a ratio in between the other two iffy ones, so I put that on. If nothing else it provides bailout up or down depending on how I'm going, so no worse off either way.

Pacing wise, I wish I had something there, maybe I'll try to record it in-screen to use for next time and play on another device. Pacing def helps though, I've noticed that with other zwift riding whether racing or riding against someone else, it turns it into survivable competitive fun vs. questionable agony.

 

[caad9]

Try being a little conservative from 0-10, find a rhythm and get through it.
work hard from 10-15m, but not killing yourself.
15-20m is ramping up to everything left

 

[schred]

Thanks mate, will try to save some for the last 5. Pedalling now, plan so far is
Q1 @ 295
Q2 @ 305/310/315 whatever feels right
Q3 @ 315-325 knocking back to 290 for last minute if needed
Q4 @ 350/270 under over 1m on and off, with last minute all out

That averages out to 305-310, then obv FTP as a % of that. Will record the test as well, should be good for a laugh.

 

[schred]

Week 13 - Day 1 - FTP Test

Tried to recreate conditions of the last FTP test. Zwift has 2 versions; long and short. I've been using the long one recently and prefer it for a longer warmup. In fact it still feels short even though it's about 40 odd minutes of warming up.

I was a bit concerned this morning as I've been feeling like sh1t from bad food lately and feeling pretty bloated, and despite my ambitions to get 4 nights of 8hrs sleep before hand, it was more like 5-5.5hrs a night which is still better than normal.

Pre test was normal breakfast, toast, cereal, 3 or so cups of coffee. Then the dilemma, juice myself with energy gels or not. Whilst I was tempted not to, I had one 5min before hand just in case. Then during the warm up I could feel it in the legs so took another, then in the mid ride rest I took another, and in fact halfway through the test I took another. So maybe 4 in total? And each one had caffeine too. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but I feel like sh1t now.

Anyway, test went almost as good as could be hoped for, and after 4 or 5 pitstops before and during the ride I was ready to get going. I placed a big ass fan (1m wing span model) placed in front and started up.

I tried to follow the plan above but tbh the gearing just wasn't quite right and 295 was a missing gear in my cassette & cadence, so it started off around 300 and stayed between that and 310 for the first half really. I was feeling really good at 10m and was thinking I've fcking got this! I then tried to kick it up to 325 in Q3 but I couldn't turn the cranks fast enough, and then the trainer decided to sh1t itself. The resistance went a bit wild and all the sudden I had to change to lower gears to turn the cranks for the same power. The mysterious source of resistance struck again! That persisted for a bit and then whoosh it vanished and the resistance dropped away and my power went down to 250w. So changed up a few gears again back up to 325, then it was already time for Q4. The plan said over/unders, so I tried that and realised pretty quickly going for 350w in the 16th minute is a bad idea, but tried it anyway, and had to back off less than 1m later, but just turning the cranks faster or slower on that gearing was enough to simulate over/unders from 330ish down to ~300 from memory so that's what I tried to do, though it wasn't smooth. Then it was onto the last few minutes and after resting in the 2nd last minute thought I better let it rip, crossed the line around 390w, peaking at 500 or so. That's nothing to be proud of, it means I had more in the tank and I could have gone harder earlier on and smoothed it out. Ideally I would have gone past the post just on or below the average power indicating I was truly done, vs. going past with 100w more. Anyway, fun is fun and done is done.

Concluding Key stats:

Starting FTP: 271w, Starting Weight: 77kg (though it went up before it went down!)
Starting w/kg: 3.52w/kg

Ending FTP: 299w Ending Weight: 75.5kg (was as low as 73.5 but KFC & beers in last few weeks changed that!)
Final w/kg: 3.96w/kg

Overall improvement in FTP: 28w or 10.3%
Overall improvement in w/kg: 0.44w/kg or 12.5%

Am I happy with that, yeah definitely. I know there's still room for improvement, always is I spose. Thanks for reading and your support. It's holiday time!

 

[schred]

PS I captured the video but it's so choppy even at 60frames/sec it's unwatchable, I wouldn't want anyone to endure watching it.

 

[Oddjob]

That is a huge improvement. You should be proud.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[caad9]

Nice work!

It's always good to kiss an FTP test goodbye.
Have some fun over summer with your newly earned power

 

[schred]

Thanks guys, the pacing was the key.