Shimano Gearbox (I'm excited)

Lazmo

Old and hopeless
I know how to move 250+ grams off the cassette and towards the centre of the bike, whilst increasing the range of gearing from 400-500% to 600% or more. It's called triple chainrings and a front derailleur.
If I could have bought my new bike with a 2 by (32/22) with front derailleur and a 10 speed (11/36) cassette and no PF BB, I would have been all over it like a cheap suit. Honestly, I loathe 1 by.

Back to the gearbox, or cassette box, or whatever they come up with... it is clearly better to centralize the mass, take the stupid unsprung and rotating mass off the back wheel... but in my personal life, I am not an early adopter, and I will wait till the bugs are ironed out. Being so frickin old, I may miss out.
 

discofrank

Likes Dirt
Back to the gearbox, or cassette box, or whatever they come up with... it is clearly better to centralize the mass, take the stupid unsprung and rotating mass off the back wheel... but in my personal life, I am not an early adopter, and I will wait till the bugs are ironed out. Being so frickin old, I may miss out.
bugs are ironed out, Zerode, nicolai, and deviant all use a pinion gbox which is flawless from 9 to 18 speed if you so wish
 

No Skid Marks

Blue Mountain Bikes Brooklyn/Lahar/Kowa/PO1NT Raci
gboxes for a bicycle have been around for years! since the 1890's actually

not liek you will be able to retro fit a gbox onto an existing bike either
You wouldn't want to anyway. This box will allow a higher main pivot point than conventional drivetrain and associated pivot point and anti squat etc, this is more than just the massive benefits of gearbox.
 

No Skid Marks

Blue Mountain Bikes Brooklyn/Lahar/Kowa/PO1NT Raci
why are they not even entertaining the thought of Gates carbon drive style setup, surely the days of cleaning crud out of chain on a regular basis has to be numbered...
Chains can be repaired and if running straight like on a gearbox bike last several times longer than with a mech, so do sprockets.
 

No Skid Marks

Blue Mountain Bikes Brooklyn/Lahar/Kowa/PO1NT Raci
Gates belts are really just a matter of mounting a different drive sprocket.

There is compromises with them though - they are less efficient than chain, and need a lot of belt tension (rear of bike needs to be quite stiff to prevent flex and potential tooth skip in SS or gearbox hardtail applications). In theory the belts shouldn't cooperate with the reverse bending round a tensioner, but bikes like @Zaf's Nicolai prove otherwise so that's something of a paradox. Also some users report poor cog life in gritty conditions.

If you're bothering to design an efficiency-focused gearbox like in Shimano's design, belt wouldn't really make sense IMO.

While I'm being negative - I really doubt Shimano would ever bring this design to market for "analogue" bikes. It looks like it's designed for (A) locking up the tech under a patent before anyone else gets a chance, and (B) adaptation to e-bike use to create an integrated motor/transmission unit. It would be equally marketable for urban and mountain biking in e-bike form (the bikes are generally hideous already), but I just dont see the benefits for a "analogue" bike.

If you're going to kill the cassette and derailluer, a casette in a box - and still having to ramp through gears - doesn't interest me. I'd rather loose a couple of percent pedalling efficiency and have instant shifting from true gears without having to have a direct driven (fixed hub) chain or only shifting while pedalling.

IMO, Pinion has made the best bike gearbox so far - but has a way to go yet. A Pinion style box with the ability to be integrated into the frame like the side-plate bolted to frame design used on Cavalerie/Effigear bikes to save weight, and replacing Pinion's low-engagment internal freehub with a sprag clutch or high-engagement ratchet would be two huge improvements to their current designs.

Truth be told though - I prefer the Effigear design overall for it's simplicity. Just a shame it's a little gear-range limited compared to the Pinion boxes. And after playing around with linkage designs the last few weeks - the Effigear offset output shaft is a real PITA in linkage packaging terms. If Effigear did a box with an additional 'speed' added and a concentric output shaft (a la Pinion) that'd be the duck's nuts IMO.
The Effigear has a nice higher output sprocket than the pinion. Similar to this Shitmano one.
 

No Skid Marks

Blue Mountain Bikes Brooklyn/Lahar/Kowa/PO1NT Raci
It's just a design lockdown with patents. Won't become real until their hand is forced by competition. Much like Honda did.
I thought Petespeed patented a very similar design, and that was bought by Hayes.
 

beeb

Likes Bikes and Dirt
The Effigear has a nice higher output sprocket than the pinion. Similar to this Shitmano one.
Unfortunately it's a real bitch to try and package with rear suspension. Looks great at a glance, but to get any amount of anti-squat in the design you still need the chainstay pivot point seperate from and up near the top of the chain ring, which is well up there on an effigear bike. That's what the last paragraph from my earlier post was getting at.
 

No Skid Marks

Blue Mountain Bikes Brooklyn/Lahar/Kowa/PO1NT Raci
Unfortunately it's a real bitch to try and package with rear suspension. Looks great at a glance, but to get any amount of anti-squat in the design you still need the chainstay pivot point seperate from and up near the top of the chain ring, which is well up there on an effigear bike. That's what the last paragraph from my earlier post was getting at.
Up there at the top of chain ring is perfect place for pivot though. Wish the pinion was that high.
 

beeb

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Up there at the top of chain ring is perfect place for pivot though. Wish the pinion was that high.
Oh hell yeah, great spot for a pivot. Just hard to integrate the idler in a way that will provide any anti-squat with the way the output shaft comes out of the g/box.
 

No Skid Marks

Blue Mountain Bikes Brooklyn/Lahar/Kowa/PO1NT Raci
zerode have released a gates drive system for thier bikes, which can be retro fitted to all models! :)
Yeah I know. Just saying, for balance of compromise between belts and chains, I favour chains for MTB. All theoretical, I've never run a belt.
 
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