Smashpot or Marzocchi coil conversion

[DMan]

Agree, it's just a quick way of seeing if there is likely to have been overzealous greasemanship.

I'd be doing a full airspring service personally before spending $600 to $700 bucks at NSD for the smashpot with a hyperperformance service to size the bushings (if that is an issue).

I hear you. Ns redo the bushes as part of their hyperservice. Maybe that's a better option first then

 

[beeb]

I hear you. No wait. Maybe I didn't...

If the fork has only had 10 or 20 hours use, I can't see you'd need to replace much if you're just pulling the airspring to check for a big blob of grease in the negative spring. While you have the airspring out, you can slide the lower back onto the stanchions and get a good impression of whether the bushes are moving freely or not.

Fox were notorious for overfilling the negative chamber of 36's a couple of years back which blocked the equalisation port. Not impossible they've returned to old ways.

 

[teK--]

Same. Good time to check the bushings whilst you are servicing the fork.

This.

It is quite common for bushings to be undersized or slightly egg shaped from the factory.

I had some 36s blueprinted with new bushings honed and they came back feeling amazing.

Then I got the Smashpot anyway and it went up another level again.

When comparing Smashpot to the Marz coil these are the biggest differences:

1. up front cost upgrade v replacement fork
2. Marz coil springs come in large rate increments, so it can be hard to match a spring to your weight and riding style. Their strategy is just to crank up the preload which is not ideal. They are otherwise very easy to set up and on-sell as-is.
3. Smashpot may or may not be able to convert back to air if the stanchions get scored by the spring.. Also more fiddling around to get it set up correct without weird noises, and with the ideal spring rate. Although the latest version spring chart is pretty accurate, you'll most likely end up buying 2 springs just to do some experimenting. Head angle makes a difference on spring rate; slacker bikes tend to need softer springs unless you are always riding steep terrain.

 

[DMan]

This.

It is quite common for bushings to be undersized or slightly egg shaped from the factory.

I had some 36s blueprinted with new bushings honed and they came back feeling amazing.

Then I got the Smashpot anyway and it went up another level again.

When comparing Smashpot to the Marz coil these are the biggest differences:

1. up front cost upgrade v replacement fork
2. Marz coil springs come in large rate increments, so it can be hard to match a spring to your weight and riding style. Their strategy is just to crank up the preload which is not ideal. They are otherwise very easy to set up and on-sell as-is.
3. Smashpot may or may not be able to convert back to air if the stanchions get scored by the spring.. Also more fiddling around to get it set up correct without weird noises, and with the ideal spring rate. Although the latest version spring chart is pretty accurate, you'll most likely end up buying 2 springs just to do some experimenting. Head angle makes a difference on spring rate; slacker bikes tend to need softer springs unless you are always riding steep terrain.

Yep. I'll book in for a hyperservice and then go from there. They'll check the equalisation port and do the bushes so win win. Then I'll get a smashpot anyway
...

 

[DMan]

Out of curiosity though, is anyone running a Secus?

 

[damo666]

Just went through the same with the Marz air - I ended up swapping it out for a Lyrik Ultimte, when combined with the sale of the Marz, left me out of pocket about the same as the Smashpot would have cost....

 

[DMan]

Just went through the same with the Marz air - I ended up swapping it out for a Lyrik Ultimte, when combined with the sale of the Marz, left me out of pocket about the same as the Smashpot would have cost....

Which is better though?

 

[damo666]

Yeah dunno?
The weight weenie in me was reluctant to add another 1/2 a kilo, but maybe I’m missing out?

 

[DMan]

Yeah dunno?
The weight weenie in me was reluctant to add another 1/2 a kilo, but maybe I’m missing out?

With the weight of my Rhythms already I don't think I'd notice another 300g...

 

[itsajoke]

I had a Bomber Z1 on the Kenevo so made that the Marzocchi coil conversion straight away. It was super-supple and smooth. Suited the Kenevo so well.

Had a Lyrik on the Enduro and rode it around 10 hours before I cracked and put the Smashpot in. That felt nice too but the bottom out adjuster was an excellent idea. A little bit of work to install, not harder than anything else on your bike.

Currently got a Secus on my STEVO and it is an improvement over the 36 Rhythm. It was a surprisingly good fork to start with. Air has come a long way since I have used it. I plan to keep this bike on air springs so a Secus review may be coming up.

 

[kten]

Fox were notorious for overfilling the negative chamber of 36's a couple of years back which blocked the equalisation port. Not impossible they've returned to old ways.

Agreed with the grease but not sure it's possible to block the equalization port with grease..the pressure would clear it immediately.

 

[beeb]

Agreed with the grease but not sure it's possible to block the equalization port with grease..the pressure would clear it immediately.

Yeah, not blocked solid, that wasn't great wording. Contaminate maybe. But a big clump of grease in the neg chamber can still be an issue.

 

[DMan]

I had a Bomber Z1 on the Kenevo so made that the Marzocchi coil conversion straight away. It was super-supple and smooth. Suited the Kenevo so well.

Had a Lyrik on the Enduro and rode it around 10 hours before I cracked and put the Smashpot in. That felt nice too but the bottom out adjuster was an excellent idea. A little bit of work to install, not harder than anything else on your bike.

Currently got a Secus on my STEVO and it is an improvement over the 36 Rhythm. It was a surprisingly good fork to start with. Air has come a long way since I have used it. I plan to keep this bike on air springs so a Secus review may be coming up.

All my dreams coming true at once... Is the Secus as good as going Smashpot in the sense of being supple and smooth? Marzocchi vs Smashpot? Fork is going to NS next week just haven't decided for what...

 

[itsajoke]

All my dreams coming true at once... Is the Secus as good as going Smashpot in the sense of being supple and smooth? Marzocchi vs Smashpot? Fork is going to NS next week just haven't decided for what...

You have simple dreams me thinks @DMan

I am working with the Secus slowly to realise it’s potential. The set-and-forget days are behind me now. Once I get the settings dialled it will be simpler.
You will notice the initial sensitivity is really good. I thought my headset was loose when rocking the bike with the front brake on, but it was beautiful fork movement. So supple.
The nicest part I have found is the brake dive is reduced significantly. Mid stroke support is probably the highlight for me so far. Steve suggests 20% more pressure but I found that too harsh. I am just above my original, non-Secus 4 bar. 4.2-4.3. (FU freedom units!)
My first run at pace with less pressure had a small gap down to a tight berm. I can confirm that the bump stops are pretty good too.

TLDR worth it if weight is your hang up.

 

[DMan]

Yo

You have simple dreams me thinks @DMan

I am working with the Secus slowly to realise it’s potential. The set-and-forget days are behind me now. Once I get the settings dialled it will be simpler.
You will notice the initial sensitivity is really good. I thought my headset was loose when rocking the bike with the front brake on, but it was beautiful fork movement. So supple.
The nicest part I have found is the brake dive is reduced significantly. Mid stroke support is probably the highlight for me so far. Steve suggests 20% more pressure but I found that too harsh. I am just above my original, non-Secus 4 bar. 4.2-4.3. (FU freedom units!)
My first run at pace with less pressure had a small gap down to a tight berm. I can confirm that the bump stops are pretty good too.

TLDR worth it if weight is your hang up.

You should work for Vorsprung.
Yes, just a simple boy with unreasonable expectations... I certainly like the idea of coil like suppleness wit air ramp up. Did you find the fork sat up high in it's travel with the Secus?

 

[itsajoke]

If Steve is listening, yep I’ll turn up at Vorsprung HQ on Monday.
The fork doesn’t sit up high compared to regular fork settings because your sag should/may be the same. The difference is after the initial travel moves into the mid stroke. It is firmer feeling there, hence the reduction in brake dive.
Somewhere you will find the graphs showing the curves of coil and air vs force to use travel. The huge negative can makes the breakaway threshold lower, so you get suppleness. The MSV in the can gives the fork more resistance to dive but doesn’t make it harsh.

Is that what you’re looking for? I am by no means an engineer, mechanic, suspension tuner. Just a simple boy with reasonable expectations.

 

[DMan]

If Steve is listening, yep I’ll turn up at Vorsprung HQ on Monday.
The fork doesn’t sit up high compared to regular fork settings because your sag should/may be the same. The difference is after the initial travel moves into the mid stroke. It is firmer feeling there, hence the reduction in brake dive.
Somewhere you will find the graphs showing the curves of coil and air vs force to use travel. The huge negative can makes the breakaway threshold lower, so you get suppleness. The MSV in the can gives the fork more resistance to dive but doesn’t make it harsh.

Is that what you’re looking for? I am by no means an engineer, mechanic, suspension tuner. Just a simple boy with reasonable expectations.

Sounds perfect to me.

 

[itsajoke]

Head angle makes a difference on spring rate; slacker bikes tend to need softer springs unless you are always riding steep terrain.

This comment is underrated to me. Unless you have a frictionless fork. Otherwise you need softer springs to overcome the angle of up-down bit relative to the terrain.

And @DMan I have read that multiple big hits ( high speed rock garden/chewed up berms) cause the Secus to get overwhelmed. I THINK I have felt that, but I don’t KNOW that.

 

[DMan]

This comment is underrated to me. Unless you have a frictionless fork. Otherwise you need softer springs to overcome the angle of up-down bit relative to the terrain.

And @DMan I have read that multiple big hits ( high speed rock garden/chewed up berms) cause the Secus to get overwhelmed. I THINK I have felt that, but I don’t KNOW that.

I read that too re. Secus. I'm actually leaning towards Smashpot as it seems more suited to my purpose. And a 50lb spring as I sit at 78kg fully kitted

 

[Live2DieTrying]

There was a smashpot kit on fb yesterday for $200. Was for a fox 38, but worth a look into that and the new mounting kit for your current fork, much cheaper than new!