Split routine vs Full body circuits

Bryce88

Likes Dirt
Hey all,

Looking for some advice/tips.... Due to growing family/work commitments my gym sessions have dwindled to about 3x 30 minute workouts a week. So my current split routine no longer fits into this limited time.

I was thinking that I may need to switch to full body workouts (circuits) however was unsure if they would be suitable for the outcome I am looking for. My main goal at the gym is to increase my muscle/mass size and (including diet) I was slowly succeeding with my split routine. My question is, can you increase weight/size on a full body circuit?

From my understanding full body circuits are mostly about calorie burning, leaness and overall fitness as they are rather high intensity, but I was wondering if anyone on here has successfully used full body circuits to build muscle/mass? If so, I would appreciate your input.

Cheers.
 

Thomas11

Likes Dirt
Hey all,

Looking for some advice/tips.... Due to growing family/work commitments my gym sessions have dwindled to about 3x 30 minute workouts a week. So my current split routine no longer fits into this limited time.

I was thinking that I may need to switch to full body workouts (circuits) however was unsure if they would be suitable for the outcome I am looking for. My main goal at the gym is to increase my muscle/mass size and (including diet) I was slowly succeeding with my split routine. My question is, can you increase weight/size on a full body circuit?

From my understanding full body circuits are mostly about calorie burning, leaness and overall fitness as they are rather high intensity, but I was wondering if anyone on here has successfully used full body circuits to build muscle/mass? If so, I would appreciate your input.

Cheers.
If you want to build muscle you need to do heavy resistance training. Low repetitions with high working sets. Focus on large compound movements that are going to use the biggest muscles and the most muscles in the body to promote the release of the correct hormones, especially testosterone which is the major player in muscle building.
I personally base my training around 6 main compound movements. Deadlifts, squats, bench press, chin ups, overhead press and dips. These major focus groups are my main working sets as they use the biggest muscles in the body, then Ill throw variations around it depending on what muscle/s i am training that day.
If you build a training program around these movements you should start to see strength increases which will promote muscle growth, but it does take time, unless your extremely genetically gifted, then in that case I hate you.

However, I must stress that you can train and train and train all you want, if your diet is not correct you wont see results.
I'd suggest getting on a site like bodybuilding.com and read through the infinite articles on muscle building and nutrition programs.
Getting the correct nutrients into your body at the correct times is probably in my opinion 75% of the total workout plan.
You will be amazed at home much you can actually eat when your on a strength training program as building muscles and repairing muscles require a lot of fuel. I eat 5 meals a day.
Think of it like a car, the bigger the engine size the more petrol it requires to run.
I can give you more advice if you want or if you have any questions just PM me and ill do my best.
 

Callan.

Farkin Gorilla.
If you want to build muscle you need to do heavy resistance training. Low repetitions with high working sets. Focus on large compound movements that are going to use the biggest muscles and the most muscles in the body to promote the release of the correct hormones, especially testosterone which is the major player in muscle building.
I personally base my training around 6 main compound movements. Deadlifts, squats, bench press, chin ups, overhead press and dips. These major focus groups are my main working sets as they use the biggest muscles in the body, then Ill throw variations around it depending on what muscle/s i am training that day.
If you build a training program around these movements you should start to see strength increases which will promote muscle growth, but it does take time, unless your extremely genetically gifted, then in that case I hate you.

However, I must stress that you can train and train and train all you want, if your diet is not correct you wont see results.
I'd suggest getting on a site like bodybuilding.com and read through the infinite articles on muscle building and nutrition programs.
Getting the correct nutrients into your body at the correct times is probably in my opinion 75% of the total workout plan.
You will be amazed at home much you can actually eat when your on a strength training program as building muscles and repairing muscles require a lot of fuel. I eat 5 meals a day.
Think of it like a car, the bigger the engine size the more petrol it requires to run.
I can give you more advice if you want or if you have any questions just PM me and ill do my best.
This is pretty good advice.

The only point I would add is to aim for higher reps (8-12) rather than low reps for size. Low reps generally equates to strength.

Also, TLDR.
 

TKITEZ

Likes Bikes
i wouldn't suggest doing a full body 'circuit' exactly, but there are many full body routines out there that would fit in with your time frame to help you make some sickening mass gains.

it can be tricky to filter through all the BS 'fitness magazine' programs on bodybuilding.com or musleandstrength, but you will be able to find something that works.

Thomas11 is spot on, something based around compound movements and eat eat eat!
 

Thomas11

Likes Dirt
This is pretty good advice.

The only point I would add is to aim for higher reps (8-12) rather than low reps for size. Low reps generally equates to strength.

Also, TLDR.
This is correct, bodybuilders go for this rep range to enhance the "swole of the muscles" and they focus more on the swole rather than the weight.

Powerlifters/olympic lifters focus on low rep ranges 3-5 which not only strengthens the muscles but also strengthens the tendons (the part that the muscle attaches to the bones) and it also strengthens the central nervous system which I think is very important because once you become experienced at lifting you start to focus on the "mind to muscle feel", which is the new trendy phrase in the muscle world. (I think its a bit of a wank phrase for people to excuse themselves from poor form), but you do get the "feel" of the muscle working after a while.
So adjust your goals around if you just want to get "big" or if you want to get stronger, or leaner or fitter, because its pretty tough to do them all at one time.
 

Mywifesirrational

I however am very normal. Trust me.
I was thinking that I may need to switch to full body workouts (circuits) however was unsure if they would be suitable for the outcome I am looking for. My main goal at the gym is to increase my muscle/mass size and (including diet) I was slowly succeeding with my split routine. My question is, can you increase weight/size on a full body circuit?
TLDR version;

Squats 4x6-8 reps / 2 minutes rest.
Bench 4x6-8 reps - superset with rows
Rows 4x6-8 reps - superset with bench
Back extension – 2 x6-8 reps / 2 mins rest

Longer version;

Abbreviated program x2-3 weekly, focus is on strength – mass is secondary, high %RM, longer rests, volume moderate, if mass is the objective, shorten the rest a little 1-1.5 min, increase the rep range 8-12 reps.

http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?251309-Basic-Resistance-Training-Guidelines

Squats 4x6-8 reps / 2 minutes rest. Total time should be 12 mins including a 50% RM warmup

Superset these to save time, machines will also make it faster to swap back and forth, ignore the naysayers nothing wrong with machine exercises.
Bench (basically any press you like) 4x6-8 reps - move straight onto Rows
Rows (basically any pull you like) 4x6-8 reps - wait 1 minute then next set back on bench.

Total time should be 14 mins, including a warmup 50% RM for both

Back extension – 2 x6-8 reps / 2 minute rest. Total time should be <5 minutes (don't super set this, especially with squats - form will suffer)

Total time for the program should be right on 30 minutes, presuming the gym is quiet enough that there are no waits for machines / equipment. Don’t bother with a aerobic warmup as it is not a warmup for actually lifting weights. Just do a light set 50% RM for each exercise (already calculated into time).

Superseting is not ideal for your strength goal, but it is ideal for your time goal, which is the dominate factor in your program.

This program covers every major muscle group in the body, but the intensity must be high (>80% of 1RM) otherwise it won’t wear you out enough as the volume isn’t particularly high.

Don't waste your time going to t-nation or bodybuilding, full of psuedoscience crap and programs which are completely retarded. While there is some gems on these sites, I struggle to differentiate the crap from quality on those sites and if I stuggle most people don't have a hope.

This is correct, bodybuilders go for this rep range to enhance the "swole of the muscles" and they focus more on the swole rather than the weight.
In evidence based practice we refer to this as plasma shift to the working muscles or a metabolic stimulus, which does indeed provide hypertrophy gains it as it stimulates an important part of the mTOR pathway in which an upregulation of mRNA (translation and transcription rates) occur, resulting in larger muscles. Tendons adapt exactly as muscles do, a little slower due to poorer blood supply, any stimulus that promotes muscle strength also concurrently promotes tendon adaptation.

it also strengthens the central nervous system which I think is very important because once you become experienced at lifting you start to focus on the "mind to muscle feel", which is the new trendy phrase in the muscle world. (I think its a bit of a wank phrase for people to excuse themselves from poor form), but you do get the "feel" of the muscle working after a while.
The nervous system stops adapting in most people at around 4 weeks into training, beyond this piont there are no measureable changes unless the exercise mode significantly changes. No need to even consider the nervous system when training. Good form is about safety during heavy lifts and looking after ones joints after chronic amounts of lifting (years to decades).
 

Bryce88

Likes Dirt
Cheers for the advice everyone.

I was already looking at doing mainly compound exercises but good to know we are all on the same page. Rep range is basically on par with what I was thinking too.

MWI, cheers for the effort you put into your posts. I'm going to have good crack at the workout tomorrow hopefully. Squats really are my kryptonite though, mainly due to a bung knee. Are Box squats an okay equivalent?
 

Mywifesirrational

I however am very normal. Trust me.
MWI, cheers for the effort you put into your posts. I'm going to have good crack at the workout tomorrow hopefully. Squats really are my kryptonite though, mainly due to a bung knee. Are Box squats an okay equivalent?
Yeah any equivalent version of squatting is good, just choose the one that aggravates your knee least. Even a variant of leg press if squatting is no good is a reasonable compromise.

Deadlifts are very good substitiute for squatting, quite different to a squat but probably a harder compound exercise to perform, although squat is more applicable to riding.
 

Bryce88

Likes Dirt
TLDR version;

Squats 4x6-8 reps / 2 minutes rest.
Bench 4x6-8 reps - superset with rows
Rows 4x6-8 reps - superset with bench
Back extension – 2 x6-8 reps / 2 mins rest
I basically did exactly this and took nearly spot on 30 minutes (29 to be precise).

It smashed me and I'm feeling pretty wrecked, but kind of felt like my shoulders didn't get much attention? Is the combination of bench press and rows enough to work out this muscle group enough or should I be adding something in like an overhead press or dips? Just curious, although I think I answered my own question.

Another question, if I do manage to get to the gym on consecutive days should I be doing the same workout or is this not enough recovery time?
 

Mywifesirrational

I however am very normal. Trust me.
I basically did exactly this and took nearly spot on 30 minutes (29 to be precise).

It smashed me and I'm feeling pretty wrecked, but kind of felt like my shoulders didn't get much attention? Is the combination of bench press and rows enough to work out this muscle group enough or should I be adding something in like an overhead press or dips? Just curious, although I think I answered my own question.

Another question, if I do manage to get to the gym on consecutive days should I be doing the same workout or is this not enough recovery time?
In regards to the shoulders, as long as the loads heavy enough deltoids will have more than enough stimulus for growth, anterior delt high utilised during a press, post delt highly used during any form of row. middle delt is probably going to be lacking so if shoulder mass is an important goal here, you'll need to add in a shoulder specific exercise, but it will add in close to 10 mins. But as a pure strength goal there is no need to add anything. As the loads get heavier deltoid will be forced to contribute more, but if it's a concern you could superset with back extension or swap out back extension, although that would be a poor trade as then you'd have no significant hamstring exercise in the program.

Dips is more of a chest and back (lats) exercise, depending on how straight or bent you do them and grip width, it will only work ant deltoid, but it's not a good shoulder exercise if compared to overhead press.

Always wait at least 48 hours to train at a minimum, consecutive training days actually depress both strength and mass gains. The advantage to a split program you have come from is you can train every day without this issue, as long as exercise selection is wise.
 

Bryce88

Likes Dirt
In regards to the shoulders, as long as the loads heavy enough deltoids will have more than enough stimulus for growth, anterior delt high utilised during a press, post delt highly used during any form of row. middle delt is probably going to be lacking so if shoulder mass is an important goal here, you'll need to add in a shoulder specific exercise, but it will add in close to 10 mins. But as a pure strength goal there is no need to add anything. As the loads get heavier deltoid will be forced to contribute more, but if it's a concern you could superset with back extension or swap out back extension, although that would be a poor trade as then you'd have no significant hamstring exercise in the program.

Dips is more of a chest and back (lats) exercise, depending on how straight or bent you do them and grip width, it will only work ant deltoid, but it's not a good shoulder exercise if compared to overhead press.

Always wait at least 48 hours to train at a minimum, consecutive training days actually depress both strength and mass gains. The advantage to a split program you have come from is you can train every day without this issue, as long as exercise selection is wise.
What you suggested worked well time wise, I kind of figured you were suggesting shoulders should receive enough love between the press and row. I may try to super-set back extensions with an overhead press if time permits.

I was happy with my split for the reason I could workout out consecutive days and I was able to work out 4 - 5 times per week. However now my days vary, so I may be able to get to the gym monday/tuesday and then not again until friday - which is painful.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
In regards to the shoulders, as long as the loads heavy enough deltoids will have more than enough stimulus for growth, anterior delt high utilised during a press, post delt highly used during any form of row. middle delt is probably going to be lacking so if shoulder mass is an important goal here, you'll need to add in a shoulder specific exercise, but it will add in close to 10 mins. But as a pure strength goal there is no need to add anything. As the loads get heavier deltoid will be forced to contribute more, but if it's a concern you could superset with back extension or swap out back extension, although that would be a poor trade as then you'd have no significant hamstring exercise in the program.

Dips is more of a chest and back (lats) exercise, depending on how straight or bent you do them and grip width, it will only work ant deltoid, but it's not a good shoulder exercise if compared to overhead press.

Always wait at least 48 hours to train at a minimum, consecutive training days actually depress both strength and mass gains. The advantage to a split program you have come from is you can train every day without this issue, as long as exercise selection is wise.
MWI just a quick question on this.
The Op said his knee was not in great shape.
I he replaces squats with deadlifts this should hit the hamstrings. This would allow the switch from back extension to a specifc shoulder exercise.

eg
Deadlifts 4x6-8 reps / 2 minutes rest.
Bench 4x6-8 reps - superset with rows
Rows 4x6-8 reps - superset with bench
Some for of lateral raise or effective press – 3 x 6-8 reps / 2 mins rest

Secondly whats your thought on undertaking a system like starting strength (not the actual program) but have two workouts rotated. workout A workout B

Week 1
Monday -workout A

Wednesday- workout B

Friday- workout A

Week2

Monday - workout B

Wednesday- workout A

Friday - Workout B

repeat.

This seems to be quite popular and effective most of the time, given the trainee sticks to heavy compound there is usually plenty of overall stimulus and cross over to cover the week were you only hit the workout once. I only suggest this as it might allow the Op to hit some more lifts without going over time.
 

Thomas11

Likes Dirt
That split could work depending on what exercises A and B contained.

In my personal opinion you should be hitting every main muscle group at least once a week. Legs, Chest, Back, Shoulders, Core.
Arms (biceps & triceps) are an aesthetic muscle group which if not individually trained will still develop with the compound lifting but can be skipped for time saving and wont have any major disadvantage on strength gains of the compound lifts
 
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