Tech Question - 10mm Front Axle

Ben-e

Captain Critter!
Perhaps some bright person could enlighten my ignorance here. I am building-up a Surly Bridge Club (totally rigid) for commuting / bikepacking / 30/70 road/off road. The fork supplied by Surly has a 10mm dropout (to house track-style 10mm axle hubs), and I'm considering decent axle options to accompany the 10x100mm hub (Hope 100mm). So far I have only been able to find 9mm axles, such as DT's RWS system, which will obviously not work, given the 1mm play between the axle and dropout. Frustratingly, Surly do not sell 10mm front axles, to suit their frames and hubs.

I have been experimenting (Gods help us all) with different options, the most viable appears to be a Stainless Steel 10x130mm hex bolt with a Stainless Steel Nyloc Nut (with 1mm washers). Although it appears to be secure, this option is very inconvenient - I would have to carry around the relevant spanner tool should i get a flippin flat. I have also been looking at an M10 x 130mm Titanium Cap Head Allen Bolt and Ti Nyloc Nut, which would be a more convenient option. I am running a 10x135mm alloy allen bolt axle in the rear, which i bought years ago for DH style riding - seems to work pretty well (strong and convenient) - its got a stop on one side to prevent the axle from rotating - bloody good design.

My question is, would there be any technical/engineering issues in running either 'bolt & nut' options noted above? Could you recommend a better option? Apologies if have totally lost the plot!

Images: 1) Fork with 120mm stainless bolt. 2) Rear 10x135mm axle. 3) Ti 10x130mm bolt.

Thanks,
Ben
 

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Ben-e

Captain Critter!
Can you get a longer bolt and cut it down so the thread is outside the hub area?
Yep - and sorry, the first image is a 120mm bolt i was playing around with (and a bit too short), a 130mm would provide about 5mm thread protrusion and most of the thread would fall outside of the hub area.
 

PJO

Likes Dirt
Is it really that much of a big deal, can't you just use a regular 9mm (QR standard) hub??
If you look at all the completes on the Surly website they just spec a regular Novatec QR hub on the front.
 

PJO

Likes Dirt
I just went out and measured the fork on my Surly Ogre it has the same 100x10mm spacing, I can get a M10 bolt to sit in there easily.
Have been running a Shimano SLX hub (9mm QR) in there for the past 7-8 years without any issue whatsoever.
 

Ben-e

Captain Critter!
I just went out and measured the fork on my Surly Ogre it has the same 100x10mm spacing, I can get a M10 bolt to sit in there easily.
Have been running a Shimano SLX hub (9mm QR) in there for the past 7-8 years without any issue whatsoever.
Awesome, thanks for checking that. I honestly don't know if it would be an issue, Surly recommend 10mm - im happy to try 9mm, just want to make sure before purchasing.

Actually, i managed to locate a 9mm axle and it seems to work ok, there's some play though.
 
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PJO

Likes Dirt
There aren't many disc hubs around that are spaced 100x10mm, except the Surly Ultra New hubs.

You're other option would be to get a 15x100mm thru axle hub and a friendly local machinist to make you a spacer similar to this (this one is for 15mm to 9mm using a QR skewer):
363255

Have a got a couple of these adapters at home for switching wheels between older and newer forks for kids bikes, they work well.
 
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Ben-e

Captain Critter!
There aren't many disc hubs around that are spaced 100x10mm, except the Surly Ultra New hubs.

You're other option would be to get a 15x100mm thru axle hub and a friendly local machinist to make you a spacer similar to this (this one is for 15mm to 9mm using a QR skewer):
View attachment 363255
Have a got a couple of these adapters at home for switching wheels between older and newer forks for kids bikes, they work well.
Ah yes, i saw these when i was Googling '10mm axle adapter'. So the ends of the above adapter sit inside the dropouts and a 5mm QR skewer brings the whole thing together, horizontally speaking, and the lawyer tabs prevent vertical movement. Its probably the easiest option.
 

PJO

Likes Dirt
Ah yes, i saw these when i was Googling '10mm axle adapter'. So the ends of the above adapter sit inside the dropouts and a 5mm QR skewer brings the whole thing together, horizontally speaking, and the lawyer tabs prevent vertical movement. Its probably the easiest option.
Yep, like I said they work well for adapting 15mm thru-axle hubs to 9mm QR can't see why it would be any different for 10mm QR.
Not sure if you can get a spacer that would allow a 10mm thru axle, but probably could get one easily machined.
Or you could get someone to machine you up a threaded thru-axle adapter that takes 10mm bolts so you can have a bolt up, or alternatively has 10mm threaded ends that can take axle nuts.
Lots of options...
 

Flow-Rider

Wheel size expert
Yep - definitely tabs on the fork, not on the frame though. Hard to see in the photo.
Yeah, I just had a look on another pic, they're not very big but usually don't get them on the rear. I had a WhiteBrothers rigid carbon fork that was 10mm drop outs and installed a 9mm axle hub on it, there was often a bit of fiddling to stop disk brake rub after you reinstall the wheel. If you're going to load the bike up with extra weight I suppose you'll want the right fitting axle, other than modification maybe email Surly and see what they have.
 

Labcanary

Likes Dirt
I'm in a similar boat @Ben-e. I've got rigid forks with 10mm dropouts and QR slops about a bit.
I have bought (but am still waiting for delivery of) a 100mm aluminium sleeve with 10mm ID and 15mm OD. I'll be using this with a 140mm long piece of m10 all thread and a couple of nylock nuts to convert a 15mm through axle to 10mm bolt up. Do you need it urgently or is this a work in progress? I could only get a pack of 5 sleeves so if you want one when they arrive shoot me a PM.
 

Ben-e

Captain Critter!
Yep, like I said they work well for adapting 15mm thru-axle hubs to 9mm QR can't see why it would be any different for 10mm QR.
Not sure if you can get a spacer that would allow a 10mm thru axle, but probably could get one easily machined.
Or you could get someone to machine you up a threaded thru-axle adapter that takes 10mm bolts so you can have a bolt up, or alternatively has 10mm threaded ends that can take axle nuts. Lots of options...
I have not seen a 15mm/10mm adapter, like, anywhere! But i have considered buying a 15mm/9mm one and having it bored out to 10mm, but then whats the point, if you have 10mm spacers on the hub, then you might as well go for a 10mm bolt through option i guess / the adapter becomes obsolete - except for taking pressure off the hub bearings (Axle clamps the adapter to the frame, hub sits in the recess), which is pretty important, ffs... can-o-worms.

If you're going to load the bike up with extra weight I suppose you'll want the right fitting axle, other than modification maybe email Surly and see what they have.
This is the thing. I want to be able to cycle, fully loaded, dump the gear at the occasional accommodation and go riding in the hills, for example (unloaded). You really want a system imo, which is secure and capable of repairs on the go.
 

Ben-e

Captain Critter!
I'm in a similar boat @Ben-e. I've got rigid forks with 10mm dropouts and QR slops about a bit.
I have bought (but am still waiting for delivery of) a 100mm aluminium sleeve with 10mm ID and 15mm OD. I'll be using this with a 140mm long piece of m10 all thread and a couple of nylock nuts to convert a 15mm through axle to 10mm bolt up. Do you need it urgently or is this a work in progress? I could only get a pack of 5 sleeves so if you want one when they arrive shoot me a PM.
Thanks for the offer!! That's a pretty viable solution. So that system (like the 15mm/9mm axle adapter) is taking the load of the hub bearings, especially compared to a bolt-through option where the hub is compressed to secure the system, and as you mentioned, the 10mm bolt will reduce play at the form dropout. Definitely interested mate, since I have every Hope axle adapter known to man! There is no rush / work in progress.
 

Ben-e

Captain Critter!
Legends - thank you all for your help with this, hugely appreciated particularly because it was doing my head in!
 

T-Rex

Template denier
Awesome, thanks for checking that. I honestly don't know if it would be an issue, Surly recommend 10mm - im happy to try 9mm, just want to make sure before purchasing.

Actually, i managed to locate a 9mm axle and it seems to work ok, there's some play though.
You are over thinking it. QR will be fine for what you are doing.

If your use case was "I'm competing in the Slopestyle at Crankworks" you might need something a bit more substantial.
 

Labcanary

Likes Dirt
Thanks for the offer!! That's a pretty viable solution. So that system (like the 15mm/9mm axle adapter) is taking the load of the hub bearings, especially compared to a bolt-through option where the hub is compressed to secure the system, and as you mentioned, the 10mm bolt will reduce play at the form dropout. Definitely interested mate, since I have every Hope axle adapter known to man! There is no rush / work in progress.
I'll PM you when they arrive
 

Ben-e

Captain Critter!
You are over thinking it. QR will be fine for what you are doing.

If your use case was "I'm competing in the Slopestyle at Crankworks" you might need something a bit more substantial.
Probably.. But fully loaded, 60-100km per day for 60 days, through salt, rain, dirt etc.. the wear on bike parts takes a whole new meaning, its that wear over time which you need to account for, and you don't want the risk of parts failure in a remote area.

I'll PM you when they arrive
Thanks again!
 
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