Terrorism: Paris, Syria, Turkey, Belgium, Florida......

Knuckles

Lives under a bridge
The book, as with anything, can be interpreted in many different ways. If what you state above was correct then every Muslim would be a gun toting maniac. The massive majority aren't.
And all the Christians would be sacrificing their first born for a nice tiedye jacket, and all the scientologists would be out building a flying saucer landing pad in their back yard.

Fact is power hungry despots will always find a justification for their Bullshit, no matter how tenuous.

WMDs anybody?
 

John U

MTB Precision
The Crusades, yes.

Just a little while ago, those....

"Interpretation"

Seems to me that some of what's in the Koran about non-believers is pretty clear.

But folks can choose to be wilfully blind, same as they can choose to believe in Sky Friends who will grant them an afterlife for doing certain things here on earth.
The promises of paradise in heaven is very similar. Repent and you're in. Some Muslims say these cowards will get fuck all in the afterlife because they've taken the life of another.
 

Knuckles

Lives under a bridge
Look I totally agree. There is no defense for unacceptable behavior. I guess the two points from this are:

1. Previous integrations (other nationalities) have not yielded the nature and extent of threats that we experience today.

2. We need to stop overlooking/ignoring the obvious correlation of specific terror attacks (including those foiled) with attribution to a religious ideology.
Just a little snap shot of terrorism on US soil, as they seem to be the biggest driver behind the anti Islam scare mongering: In the 14 years post 9/11 26 people have been killed by self proclaimed jihadists. So 26 lost lives to radical Muslim terrorism. However, 48 people have died in non Muslim related terrorist attacks. That's right, more than double the lives have been lost to Apple pie lovin good ole boys.

Infact, discounting the Sept 11 attacks, the #1 terrorist threat in the US is white supremacists, #2 is anti government nut jobs and #3 is radical Christians.

Including 9/11 white power is still #1.


FFS, has everyone forgotten the state sanctioned terrorist attack by the French in Auckland harbour? It's hardly the sole bastion of the Muslim.
 
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Flow-Rider

Burner
The book, as with anything, can be interpreted in many different ways. If what you state above was correct then every Muslim would be a gun toting maniac. The massive majority aren't.
If you look at Japan they actually made an interpreted Koran in Japanese and no other is allowed in the country, permits given to the applicants from Islamic countries are very low. They have hardly had a problem with ISIS or any bad Muslim activity.
 

floody

Wheel size expert
The Romans saw the early Christians in much the same frame extremist Islam is today; the term 'death cult' was bandied about then and even Marcus Aurelius noted how batshit crazy and obsessed with death his Christian-dominated divisions were.


Fact is crazy is risky. Crazy with weapons is dangerous. Crazy with weapons and religion is deadly. The sources of crazy are diverse.
 
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Calvin27

Eats Squid
Just a little snap shot of terrorism on US soil, as they seem to be the biggest driver behind the anti Islam scare mongering: In the 14 years post 9/11 26 people have been killed by self proclaimed jihadists. So 26 lost lives to radical Muslim terrorism. However, 48 people have died in non Muslim related terrorist attacks. That's right, more than double the lives have been lost to Apple pie lovin good ole boys.
Yep I know the stats well. Something like only 6% in the US taken from FBI cases from 1980 to 2005 (I personally think this is cherry picking years as it has picked up a lot recently). Having a look at Australia in the last few years though, it is hard to deny the overwhelming trend. France is even worse.

Australia: Thankfully we don't have many attacks but there is majorioty representation in muslims for the 21st century. Add the foiled plots and the numbers increase.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Australia

France: This is looking very bad. Basically most of the attacks are from muslims extremists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France

So from what I gather the US is more of a gun control problem than anything.
 

redbruce

Eats Squid
The Crusades, yes.

Just a little while ago, those....

"Interpretation"

Seems to me that some of what's in the Koran about non-believers is pretty clear.

But folks can choose to be wilfully blind, same as they can choose to believe in Sky Friends who will grant them an afterlife for doing certain things here on earth.
"The Crusades, yes. Just a little while ago, those...."

Yes History. Some may choose to interpret the current situation as a contemporary version of the Crusades.

"Interpretation" Seems to me that some of what's in the Koran about non-believers is pretty clear." Too who'm? Your credentials in the study of and interpretation are, what?

"But folks can choose to be wilfully blind, same as they can choose to believe in Sky Friends who will grant them an afterlife for doing certain things here on earth." Is that just an unqualified statement or a personal dissertation?
 
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golden path

Banned
Can I quote your own sig?

"Just becuase science doesn't know everything, doesn't mean you can just fill in the gaps with whatever fairytale most appeals to ya!" Dara O'Briain
 

redbruce

Eats Squid
Can I quote your own sig?

"Just becuase science doesn't know everything, doesn't mean you can just fill in the gaps with whatever fairytale most appeals to ya!" Dara O'Briain
Sure. Right back at, ya!

Might want to look at the source of the quote and what the message is though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDYba0m6ztE

Can cut to 6.20 if you have a myopic attention span.

Also you have prompted me to correct the spelling of that quote. Thanks.
 
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John U

MTB Precision
If you look at Japan they actually made an interpreted Koran in Japanese and no other is allowed in the country, permits given to the applicants from Islamic countries are very low. They have hardly had a problem with ISIS or any bad Muslim activity.
Immigration in Japan is very low full stop. All this really proves is that if you let very few immigrants in you'll have very few problems with immigrants.
 

MARKL

Eats Squid
It's not the fault of Muslims as a people, but if these terrorists (or whatever you'd like to call them) identify with a particular faith, that can't be ignored. The very idea at the heart of every belief system is it's something you choose to believe/follow or don't, therefore creating a divide. Some ignore the divide, others emphasise it, and a small minority leverage their hatred from it. Whether the masses of peaceful Muslims are just that - peaceful - is irrelevant.
I don't think Timothy McVeigh identified as Muslim, nor the IRA, pretty sure the Ulster Freedom Fighter's weren't either. KKK, i'm sure they aren't big on Islam either, could the unabomber have been Muslim ...following your argument it is pretty clear that white Christians are a problem that can no longer be ignored, regardless of the masses of peaceful Christians...is equally irrelevant.

Or we can try and have a more sophisticated response? One that doesn't tar every person of a particular religion with the disgusting behaviors of the the minority? There are 1.6billion Muslims in the world, if they are all terrorists we are fucked:behindsofa: or maybe there is a ratbag element of extremists that need to be dealt with.
 
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golden path

Banned
Immigration in Japan is very low full stop. All this really proves is that if you let very few immigrants in you'll have very few problems with immigrants.
Funny about that, eh?


Those folks victim blaming and blaming our societies and claiming folks are radicalised because of racism and marginalisation - including apparently the most senior mufti here - WHERE are the aboriginal terrorists? WHERE are the Indian and Pakistani terrorists here? WHERE are the Italian, Greek, Vietnamese, Chinese, et al terrorists? All have been and / or continue to be victims of racism and marginalisation.


The common denominator is....drumroll....Islam.
 

Knuckles

Lives under a bridge
Yep I know the stats well. (I personally think this is cherry picking years as it has picked up a lot recently).
Yet you choose to ignore them. Yes, it has picked up a bit, but in the last 14 years, still more than double are from home grown, non Muslim threats. And that's not taking into account the number of threats being tracked.

Having a look at Australia in the last few years though, it is hard to deny the overwhelming trend.
The overwhelming trend? Hardly....

Of the 8 notable terrorism events on Australian soil, only 2 have been attributed to radical Islamics. And that's from your own quotes reference.

France is even worse.

France: This is looking very bad. Basically most of the attacks are from muslims extremists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France
There are over 6 million Muslims in France, so if even 1% of the Islamic population were terrorists, that would mean there are over 60000 active terrorists in France. Long bow well and truly drawn.

The majority of French Muslims come from French colonies, where, let's be honest, the frogs don't have the best record for treatment of the indigenous population. Some could interpret the attacks as counter insurgency...

So from what I gather the US is more of a gun control problem than anything.
More of a civil liberties and freedom problem....
 
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redbruce

Eats Squid
Funny about that, eh?


Those folks victim blaming and blaming our societies and claiming folks are radicalised because of racism and marginalisation - including apparently the most senior mufti here - WHERE are the aboriginal terrorists? WHERE are the Indian and Pakistani terrorists here? WHERE are the Italian, Greek, Vietnamese, Chinese, et al terrorists? All have been and / or continue to be victims of racism and marginalisation.


The common denominator is....drumroll....Islam.
Ok now you appear to be showing your bias and ignorance (- biting tongue here).

Terrorism is not a monopoly of Islam, or more accurately ISIS as the extreme version of ONE specific theological belief.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_terrorism
 
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John U

MTB Precision
Funny about that, eh?


Those folks victim blaming and blaming our societies and claiming folks are radicalised because of racism and marginalisation - including apparently the most senior mufti here - WHERE are the aboriginal terrorists? WHERE are the Indian and Pakistani terrorists here? WHERE are the Italian, Greek, Vietnamese, Chinese, et al terrorists? All have been and / or continue to be victims of racism and marginalisation.


The common denominator is....drumroll....Islam.
Are you scared of terrorism in Australia? How many deaths have their been due to terrorism in Australia? If you don't count Monis, which I don't think you should, the last would probably be the Russell St bombing in the 1980's. Pretty few and far between. Certain elements of The main stream media and certain politicians are the main cause of any terrorist fear that might exist out there in Australia, not Muslims.
 

Calvin27

Eats Squid
Firstly we need to stop the default position that all Muslims are terrorists. Mo one is saying that. What we are saying is the religion's seriously high correlation with terrorist incidents. Do you not think this minority is over represented in French attacks?
 

stirk

Burner
I'm wonder if Martin Bryant had commited his killing spree now if ISIS, or whatever they are called, would have claimed his slaughtering rampage as their own orchestration?

images (10).jpg

Me thinks not.
 

Knuckles

Lives under a bridge
Firstly we need to stop the default position that all Muslims are terrorists. Mo one is saying that. What we are saying is the religion's seriously high correlation with terrorist incidents. Do you not think this minority is over represented in French attacks?
Anti government/authority sentiment has a much higher correlation to terrorist acts. Particularly in the West.

What needs to stop is the disproportionate rhetoric around middle eastern terrorism.
 
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