The election thread - Two middle-late aged white men trying to be blokey and convincing..., same old shit, FFS.

[David2406]

Just reading they are trying to get Bill Shorten's rape case opened again, interesting to see what will happen

 

[johnny]

I think it also bares mentioning egregious errors in one aspect will largely invalidate all matters of the system

I think that's a failure in thinking though.

You can have a socialist economic system without brutality and you can have brutality without socialism. The two things are mutually exclusive - they are not contingent on each other (cue anarcho-capitalism). Secondly, we don't have a lot of data to go on for Socialism. Yes there have been a great number of spectacular failures but they all took place in the transition of industrialism (can't exist without it) and decolonisation. These eras are not a very long period of time and there variables of mechanisation and power-vacuums/contests add another very important layer to the equation.

I don't give Socialism or Capitalism (or anything, for that matter) a free pass. But saying that the 20th century provides all we need to know - "Socialism = authoritarianism/dictatorship" is the same as saying correlation = cause. I'm happy enough to say that capitalism is the best we've had so far, but I'm not willing to shout down anyone who says that we can do socialism better this time just because we fucked it up last time (and I think there are enough examples of market interventionism to show that the real problems last time were within the economic policies without talking about the brutality and political violence).

 

[johnny]

Just reading they are trying to get Bill Shorten's rape case opened again, interesting to see what will happen

Case study in political desperation.

 

[rockmoose]

I think that's a failure in thinking though.

You can have a socialist economic system without brutality and you can have brutality without socialism. The two things are mutually exclusive - they are not contingent on each other (cue anarcho-capitalism). Secondly, we don't have a lot of data to go on for Socialism. Yes there have been a great number of spectacular failures but they all took place in the transition of industrialism (can't exist without it) and decolonisation. These eras are not a very long period of time and there variables of mechanisation and power-vacuums/contests add another very important layer to the equation.

I don't give Socialism or Capitalism (or anything, for that matter) a free pass. But saying that the 20th century provides all we need to know - "Socialism = authoritarianism/dictatorship" is the same as saying correlation = cause. I'm happy enough to say that capitalism is the best we've had so far, but I'm not willing to shout down anyone who says that we can do socialism better this time just because we fucked it up last time (and I think there are enough examples of market interventionism to show that the real problems last time were within the economic policies without talking about the brutality and political violence).

Because of how humankind is, the only system that will work for all is a benevolent dictatorship.

Bob Brown for PM.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[SF Trailboy]

Why anyone really gives a shite is beyond me. Since social media it is more and more a popularity contest.

The last truly significant thing the government did was the GST and that was 20 years ago.

Until someone is willing to stand up and make real meaningful change, no matter how popular it is at the time, we will be dished up the same shite over and over again.

That person will have to have to the balls to jeopardise re-election for themselves and their party.

Make no mistake, politics, is more about serving their interests and incomes than making lasting meaningful change.

 

[Calvin27]

I'm happy enough to say that capitalism is the best we've had so far

With all things it's never a binary view. There are elements of our economic system that you would call capitalist and elements that are socialist. Ifyou have half the population calling you socialist and the other half capitalist, you are probably about in the middle....

My economic view is that we need to shift more towards a socialist economic model, because a capitalist one has a poor track record with environment.

 

[rowdyflat]

I donate to Get Up .
It is a democratic way to improve social justice and real change.
There has to be a way to push back against News Corp , Gina Reinhart IPA
greedy rightwing people who just want to protect their business interests ,pay shit wages , pay as little tax as possible and all their apologists Bolt, Alan Jones,Dutton.

 

[Freediver]

Just reading they are trying to get Bill Shorten's rape case opened again, interesting to see what will happen

In a Murdoch paper?

 

[steve jobs' pancreas]

Now now, let’s stop all this a fussin’ an a fightin’

I think this is the candidate that we need, one that will unite us

 

[slowmick]

You get the idea, it's a meritocracy, and gender/sexual orientation/race, etc. simply don't have weight against competence.
Also, if you have two mechanics that cost the same but one has a reputation for being competent and one has a reputation for being brilliant, you're not flipping a coin to find out which you'll go to. Was more my point when saying you'll go for the best.

Do you think that society has a responsibility to support people who are not currently represented in some areas at the detriment of the current norm? From my limited without some positive intervention things don't change. When I was younger I was annoyed/angry by gender quotas when looking for work. As I get older I understand why they are necessary even if i still hold a little grumpiness. Change requires compromise. Come to think of it - we're fucked.

 

[Litenbror]

You get the idea, it's a meritocracy, and gender/sexual orientation/race, etc. simply don't have weight against competence.
Also, if you have two mechanics that cost the same but one has a reputation for being competent and one has a reputation for being brilliant, you're not flipping a coin to find out which you'll go to. Was more my point when saying you'll go for the best.

Unfortunately I it's not a meritocracy. During the rate rigging inquiry in the UK the banking vps compared their positions to servers at McDonald's https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-being-a-barclays-vp-to-working-at-mcdonald-s. If it was a meritocracy then the smartest and most ambitious individuals would run the country instead we had the Abbot show and now the Morrison nothingness. To claim we are a pure meritocracy is naive, better than others yes, but can we be better and should we try to be better yes

 

[Dales Cannon]

I donate to Get Up .
It is a democratic way to improve social justice and real change.
There has to be a way to push back against News Corp , Gina Reinhart IPA
greedy rightwing people who just want to protect their business interests ,pay shit wages , pay as little tax as possible and all their apologists Bolt, Alan Jones,Dutton.

Well get them to stop fucking calling my landline. Four times from 17:30 to 18:00 and I have lost count of the shit recorded calls everyone has tried over the period of the campaign. I put the coal eaters into that basket too. Fuck off and leave me alone.

 

[pink poodle]

Well get them to stop fucking calling my landline. Four times from 17:30 to 18:00 and I have lost count of the shit recorded calls everyone has tried over the period of the campaign. I put the coal eaters into that basket too. Fuck off and leave me alone.

Holy shit!!! You still have a land line???


@Zaf I think the funding gap between public and private school education is a strong example. So is the deterioration of funding of free tertiary education. Sure not everyone needs to go to uni, but everyone should have the opportunity. Housing affordability is a huge disparity and it seems to impact quite a range of people. Maybe health care? I'm not sure but it seems we are continually eroding the public system and if you can't afford the private one you'll just have to sit on the waiting list.

 

[Zaf]

Removed by user

 

[pink poodle]

You can make things a lot worse, far more easily than you can make things a little better

now I get it! No point trying to make things better because it is to hard, case closed. That isn't the case. Education in particular could easily he made more equitable. A perfectly good model was put forward by the Gonski review and poo-pooed out of existence by a bunch of angry rich guys.

 

[Zaf]

Removed by user

 

[Flow-Rider]

I honestly don't think you do. If you read on, I say that it's not so clean cut, so don't go cherry picking the quote out of the full context. I never once advocate that "it's too hard, do nothing". Any severe lean in either direction is unhealthy, the conservative and progressive view points should check and balance each other to produce a mid ground compromise.

Also, just to inject some anecdote into the conversation. I am first generation Australian to Dutch and Portuguese parents who immigrated (my grandfather on my mother's side was illiterate and innumerate); born, raised and schooled in rural Australia, and (except for three years of junior high school, that I did extremely poorly in) I went through the public school system. I'm not willing to make an excuse out of it, and I don't think I should get preferential treatment on University admissions based on an address on my birth certificate and/or where I went to school. If I'm unable to compete with other candidates for those positions, I should better myself in order to do so, not expect someone to legislate me into prosperity.

The public schooling system in Qld in the 80's and 90's had a lot to desire.

 

[sane]

Couldn’t resist these at the cake stall at my local

 

[Jpez]

Couldn’t resist these at the cake stall at my local

View attachment 353064

Our local

 

[Nambra]

Where's the Scott's finger biscuits?

Edit: found them...