The election thread - Two middle-late aged white men trying to be blokey and convincing..., same old shit, FFS.

[johnny]

Let's keep the personal attacks out of it, thanks, folks.

The AFP don't work in a vacuum, especially when it comes to leaks from depts.

As in, cases are referred to the AFP by depts, not necessarily by the minister either.

 

[Haakon]

I find someone wondering (no doubt because I don’t know enough about how this arm of government works...) if the federal police are tired of political interference and concerned about the move to more authoritarian style arrangements - and put on a small demonstration for the public to galvanise some interest in it.

 

[Halo1]

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...tax-lie-infected-australias-election-campaign

"...revealing alarming implications for Australian democracy..."

Yep. The uninformed & stupidly informed vote, in droves.

I don’t know anyone who was dumb enough to fall for this.

I can only hope these articles are making people feel better about the election loss.

 

[Haakon]

I don’t know anyone who was dumb enough to fall for this.

I can only hope these articles are making people feel better about the election loss.

Many many were dumb enough alas. Makes me feel worse about it... It makes it hard to know how it can be responded to when you’re not able to argue the facts.

Forces you into the same technique of arguing what people want to hear and that’s just making the whole problem worse.

 

[pink poodle]

Let's keep the personal attacks out of it, thanks, folks.

The AFP don't work in a vacuum, especially when it comes to leaks from depts.

When I was a fed our department had the federal police undertake raids for the project I was working on. Someone at the receiving end of the raid was pretty pissed and called some of their friends in parliament house, elected friends. The friends (multiple) then called my boss' boss. The poor old fellow, just a few months from retirement and eager to leave on a high note, came out of his office all lathered up and asked us to halt all work until further notice. About 2 months later our project came to an inconclusive end and our sub-branch was disbanded and absorbed into other areas undertaking similar work. I have no idea if anything ever came of the raids or if it all just disappeared.

 

[Halo1]

Many many were dumb enough alas. Makes me feel worse about it... It makes it hard to know how it can be responded to when you’re not able to argue the facts.

Forces you into the same technique of arguing what people want to hear and that’s just making the whole problem worse.

Does any one here know anyone that actually heard of, believed and cast their vote because they were in fear of a death/inheritance tax?

Sure there was lots of lies on social media out there but most people are smart enough to cut through the bs. Who the hell takes social media seriously. I give this tread as a perfect example. It’s entertaining and thought provoking but if I believed everything on here I would have voted green... as if

 

[Haakon]

Does any one here know anyone that actually heard of, believed and cast their vote because they were in fear of a death/inheritance tax?

Sure there was lots of lies on social media out there but most people are smart enough to cut through the bs. Who the hell takes social media seriously. I give this tread as a perfect example. It’s entertaining and thought provoking but if I believed everything on here I would have voted green... as if

Not me personally, wrong demo. But a mate at work manned a polling booth and yes - it was a thing.

 

[beeb]

Does any one here know anyone that actually heard of, believed and cast their vote because they were in fear of a death/inheritance tax?

Sure there was lots of lies on social media out there but most people are smart enough to cut through the bs. Who the hell takes social media seriously. I give this tread as a perfect example. It’s entertaining and thought provoking but if I believed everything on here I would have voted green... as if

Unfortunately yes, I know several that let it heavily influence their vote. Having seen their reaction to queries if they ever actually fact-checked what they were talking about (and were enthusiatically sharing on social media), you could see they didn't really care - they just wanted to buy into the nice convenient scare-tacric sound bites that "backed up" why Labor and the Greens were bad - and as soon as you rationally debunked one, they'd roll onto the next argument - ie: 'bad economic managers', 'socialists', 'pro-immigration', 'bloody greenies', 'teaching all our kids to be transgender', etc etc... Beneath it all was the simple ethos that greed was good as long as they were going to get to go along for the ride, and they were voting Liberal or similar just to make a point about 'not buying into the climate lies' and generally just to 'stick it to the lefties'. For what it's worth I'm not pro-Greens, Labor, Liberal or any friggen party to be honest. I'm basically only interested in policy, with a strong lean toward ones that don't lead us toward climate oblivion in just a few decades, and share the collective despair of others here and offline that just can't figure out when Australians became so willingly stupid as to not only swallow the BS that was pumped out at a whole new level this election, but embrace it and pass it along as if it were proven fact to anyone who'll listen.

 

[Haakon]

Rarely these days and not since the election, I liked to try to think the best of people. Ignorance isn’t the same as stupid and most people will stop and think if you explain things in terms they can relate to.

But no. People are mostly cunts, and dumb ones at that. The smart ones are also cunts and get ahead by taking advantage of the dumb ones (I particularly like the way they make the dumb ones think the smart ones are on their side!) And that’s in a relatively enlightened and very well off place like Australia - add into that the daily grind of just surviving in less developed places and it’s clear the chances of there being a global coming together in the common interest are laughably minute.

 

[hifiandmtb]

I can only hope these articles are making people feel better about the election loss.

Winning an election means winning the minds of the majority of the voting populace. How minds are won is through techniques like this.

It's not illegal to deceive.

 

[pharmaboy]

The alternative view is that the party who best understands where the middle 10% are in their beliefs and concerns is the party that will win the election.

That is, the policy platform is simply reflective of the centre. Hubris however is the great leveller

 

[LPG]

Rarely these days and not since the election, I liked to try to think the best of people. Ignorance isn’t the same as stupid and most people will stop and think if you explain things in terms they can relate to.

But no. People are mostly cunts, and dumb ones at that. The smart ones are also cunts and get ahead by taking advantage of the dumb ones (I particularly like the way they make the dumb ones think the smart ones are on their side!) And that’s in a relatively enlightened and very well off place like Australia - add into that the daily grind of just surviving in less developed places and it’s clear the chances of there being a global coming together in the common interest are laughably minute.

Sorry, I'm confused. Do we cull the stupid or smart people?

 

[Haakon]

Sorry, I'm confused. Do we cull the stupid or smart people?

A good question. Both I suspect...

 

[johnny]

Does any one here know anyone that actually heard of, believed and cast their vote because they were in fear of a death/inheritance tax?

Sure there was lots of lies on social media out there but most people are smart enough to cut through the bs. Who the hell takes social media seriously. I give this tread as a perfect example. It’s entertaining and thought provoking but if I believed everything on here I would have voted green... as if

I think you might need to broaden your understanding of electioneering. The message was not constrained to social media and the number of people I know first hand who reacted to it are all close to retirement and getting their information from tv, radio and print.

One of them is well educated and from a union background. He converted his money into real estate to save it from an ALP govt.

 

[Halo1]

I think you might need to broaden your understanding of electioneering. The message was not constrained to social media and the number of people I know first hand who reacted to it are all close to retirement and getting their information from tv, radio and print.

One of them is well educated and from a union background. He converted his money into real estate to save it from an ALP govt.

Sounds like that person you mentioned should speak to a financial planner rather then hedge bets on an election. Even with a union back ground they did not trust the alp... interesting that one.

It was a genuine question as I don’t know anyone that dumb personally or the message was not played out here. I am in a safe Labor seat that the the libs did not run in.
Now was this a large enough scale to sway the vote in any particular seat?
All I saw or read in the media was clarification of ALP policy.

 

[pink poodle]

That is, the policy platform is simply reflective of the centre.

The centre of the voting bell curve.

Sorry, I'm confused. Do we cull the stupid or smart people?

Didn't you read @pharmaboy? The centre!!'!

 

[johnny]

Sounds like that person you mentioned should speak to a financial planner rather then hedge bets on an election. Even with a union back ground they did not trust the alp... interesting that one.

It was a genuine question as I don’t know anyone that dumb personally or the message was not played out here. I am in a safe Labor seat that the the libs did not run in.
Now was this a large enough scale to sway the vote in any particular seat?
All I saw or read in the media was clarification of ALP policy.

I was pretty surprised he did that and it lowered my opinion of him. Not because I care about the ALP but because he bought into the fear.

In saying that, I actually don’t know crap about the policy. Maybe he was right and I’m the fool.

 

[born-again-biker]

I don’t know anyone who was dumb enough to fall for this.
.........

I do.

Does any one here know anyone that actually heard of, believed and cast their vote because they were in fear of a death/inheritance tax?

Sure there was lots of lies on social media out there but most people are smart enough to cut through the bs. Who the hell takes social media seriously. I give this tread as a perfect example. It’s entertaining and thought provoking but if I believed everything on here I would have voted green... as if

Yep. My direct supervisor at work was trumpeting about how "...those stupid labor c@nts didn't get their death tax over the line, blah, blah..."
I pointed out that the policy does not, did not, never existed in any meaningful form. I also told him that the ALP had repeatedly stated, in the days before the election, that the information on FarceBook was complete fabrication and had no basis in any policy plans.
To which he said something close to, "....yeah, but who cares, the main thing is they didn't win!..."
(He is a late fifties white male, ex- defence force (fully pensioned on top of his current civilian wage), multiple investment properties, runs a small "farm" which he openly admits is just to achieve Primary Producer tax benefits, share portfolio (so there's imputation credit exposure)
....it's no surprise he did not vote Labor. I respect his hard work and his obviously well managed finances. But he's an engineer (which implies intelligence). He loses my respect when he (and millions of others) can not, or will, not accept lies for what they are.
It's interesting when you run a scare campaign that plays into the fear/greed/ignorance honey-pot. It's just so effective and you end up in a place that is so far from any truth or logic it's terrifying.

EDIT: The transgender / making kids gay / "brainwashing them into queerness" crap also resonated very strongly with this particular person.

EDIT: If he ever takes up mtn biking and discovers rotorburn I could be out of a job...

Unfortunately yes, I know several that let it heavily influence their vote. Having seen their reaction to queries if they ever actually fact-checked what they were talking about (and were enthusiatically sharing on social media), you could see they didn't really care - they just wanted to buy into the nice convenient scare-tacric sound bites that "backed up" why Labor and the Greens were bad - and as soon as you rationally debunked one, they'd roll onto the next argument - ie: 'bad economic managers', 'socialists', 'pro-immigration', 'bloody greenies', 'teaching all our kids to be transgender', etc etc... Beneath it all was the simple ethos that greed was good as long as they were going to get to go along for the ride, and they were voting Liberal or similar just to make a point about 'not buying into the climate lies' and generally just to 'stick it to the lefties'. For what it's worth I'm not pro-Greens, Labor, Liberal or any friggen party to be honest. I'm basically only interested in policy, with a strong lean toward ones that don't lead us toward climate oblivion in just a few decades, and share the collective despair of others here and offline that just can't figure out when Australians became so willingly stupid as to not only swallow the BS that was pumped out at a whole new level this election, but embrace it and pass it along as if it were proven fact to anyone who'll listen.

^This. To the power of Eleventy times infinity.
The problem we now have post-Brexit / US Fed election, and now sadly here in Oz, is that a wide section of our community have not yet developed the right level of scepticism with FarceBook. I think many people still think it's where all the "real" stuff is and the "truths" about what's really going on. They think FarceBook is somehow a bit like "the word on the street, man". So when they see a post about a nasty death tax on FarceBook, but they didn't see the same message in the mainstream media they think "Shit, so that's what's really happening!"
They don't realise FarceBook lost its innocence a long time ago.
Some of the Baby Boomers are shockers for this - they are tech savy enough to login because they took a deep breath a few years back and decided to try this new-fangled internet thing....but not really savy enough to use the internet to dig deeper or keep up with how fast the manipulation is moving on all sides.

 

[pharmaboy]

Some of the Baby Boomers are shockers for this - they are tech savy enough to login because they took a deep breath a few years back and decided to try this new-fangled internet thing....but not really savy enough to use the internet to dig deeper or keep up with how fast the manipulation is moving on all sides.

It’s not an age thing - there’s plenty of dumb anti science, alternative medicine FUD which seems to garner complete faith by an on average, younger population.

Was this background campaign considered as payback for Medi-Scare last time round?

Until; you have truth in political advertising, anything goes.

Incidentally, I don’t think this was the unloseable election - the failure here has been the polling which has shown itself to be structurally unsound, and with bad information in, we got garbage out. The ALP thought it was Time and the people wanted Change - that was simply misjudgement on bad information (easy to say in hindsight of course......)

 

[born-again-biker]

It’s not an age thing - there’s plenty of dumb anti science, alternative medicine FUD which seems to garner complete faith by an on average, younger population.

Was this background campaign considered as payback for Medi-Scare last time round?

Until; you have truth in political advertising, anything goes.

Incidentally, I don’t think this was the unloseable election - the failure here has been the polling which has shown itself to be structurally unsound, and with bad information in, we got garbage out. The ALP thought it was Time and the people wanted Change - that was simply misjudgement on bad information (easy to say in hindsight of course......)

Yeah I agree.
I thought (and hoped) Labor was going to win on the strength of their policy platform - but I never thought it would be some historic landslide.
Australian elections are almost always close.

The other thing worth mentioning is the shortness of memory.
I would have thought the last leadership change in all its messiness and self-interest and factionalism would have been a huge boost for Labor.
I thought the wider electorate was really sick & tired of the leadership spills - in particular the last one - and they were going to punish the Libs come election day. In the same way that Labor (rightfully) paid a high price for their utter Gong Show with Rudd-Gillard-Rudd bullshit.
But, suddenly all was forgiven...? I found it relatively easy to see that Morrison was actually the snake in the grass when Turnbull was lost in the wild. But come election day, he's a better bloke (or bet) than wonky Bill..?? I don't geddit.