The election thread - Will the new PM last a full term - who will you futilely vote for?

Who will you vote for?

  • Liberals

    Votes: 13 20.0%
  • Labor

    Votes: 25 38.5%
  • Nationals

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Greens

    Votes: 16 24.6%
  • Independant

    Votes: 4 6.2%
  • The Reason Party

    Votes: 4 6.2%
  • Shooters and Fishers Party

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • One Nation

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Donkey/Invalid vote

    Votes: 1 1.5%

  • Total voters
    65

pink poodle

Clinically Inane

John U

MTB Precision
Some forward notice on getting in with this as a class action would've been Great!

Does Roberts look like an angry midget jockey?
I've asked a couple of questions on this. Response I got was any voter from the area he was invalidly elected for can sue using the same case as the successful one mentioned above. Would love to see a couple of hundred thousand voters suing this dickhead and being paid $6,000 each, with the payouts being funded by Roberts and One Notion.
 

Nerf Herder

Wheel size expert
Not sure if this belongs here or it’s own thread or other more appropriate threads ?? Mods feel free to move if you like. Just let me know where.

What are people’s thoughts on Treaty ... Reconciliation ... Uluru Statement of the Heart.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/treaty-when-dodson-warns-of-betrayal-and-airbrushing-of-indigenous-ambition-20190711-p52656.html

I’ve only just started trying to understand the USotH and more generally trying to understand First Nations point if view ... but my initial read of it is about self determinination ...
This in itself seems fine ... provided it is about unity and not separation.

As I type and acknowledging I have yet to do any meaningful research which may change my views ... I think the current aims are about self determination, land ownership transference, ability to raise income to fund their own programs ... ie self government... as opposed to integration, unity and reconciliation.
 

John U

MTB Precision
Not sure if this belongs here or it’s own thread or other more appropriate threads ?? Mods feel free to move if you like. Just let me know where.

What are people’s thoughts on Treaty ... Reconciliation ... Uluru Statement of the Heart.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/treaty-when-dodson-warns-of-betrayal-and-airbrushing-of-indigenous-ambition-20190711-p52656.html

I’ve only just started trying to understand the USotH and more generally trying to understand First Nations point if view ... but my initial read of it is about self determinination ...
This in itself seems fine ... provided it is about unity and not separation.

As I type and acknowledging I have yet to do any meaningful research which may change my views ... I think the current aims are about self determination, land ownership transference, ability to raise income to fund their own programs ... ie self government... as opposed to integration, unity and reconciliation.
Try reading this.
https://www.booktopia.com.au/forgotten-war-henry-reynolds/prod9781742233925.html?source=pla&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpavpBRDQARIsAPfTwixh5rgWxTI24MchbW1O04UlouoDDXtWjBKQ9Kdl4FpKqAoSWyGpCVcaAqQiEALw_wcB

Why should it be about unity? The crimes perpetrated against the First Nations have been all but erased from history in Australia. If the truth were more commonly known and recognised your comment would more likely be 'it should be about justice'.
 

Haakon

veni, vidi, volanti
Wouldnt hold my breath on "justice". "Conquered" cultures have never had "justice" in the history for humanity... Its a scenario thats been repeated endlessly over the millenia and I wouldnt expect it to stop now - humans are pretty good at being pretty shit to each other.
 

John U

MTB Precision
Well, a version of justice at least.
A quote from computer geek world might apply here.
‘Most Dangerous Phrase: We’ve Always Done It That Way’
 

Nerf Herder

Wheel size expert
Thanks on the link ... but I don’t think that helps.

I very much know the First People’s were slaughtered and killed for their land. But how can the current generations offer justice, to past generations? Is what happened in the past more important than the present or future.
I’m a new Australian, but I’m not any less Australian then any. So how does that work?

Is 40,000 years of history more important then my 46years of Australian history?

What does Justice look like? Self determination? What does compensation look like?

Dobson mentions the need for a Voice ... they need a government Voice which I agree with ... thinking outside the square I could see an Indigenous vote and a govt representative ... like a Governor General, But working with the government of the day to form policy affecting First People’s ... but is that what they want? I could vote for that.

I’m guessing and rambling ... but ultimately I’m looking for definition of what their end game is ... and I don’t think they agree on this as a community.
 

John U

MTB Precision
I’m about 5th generation Australian. Both sides of my family came for the gold rush at the end of the 19th century. I feel I don’t have the same claim of belonging here as the First Nations people.
Years ago I was of similar frame of mind to yourself. Born here, belong just as much. I also used to vote conservative. Heaps has changed since then.
 

Scotty T

Likes Dirt
"Is 40,000 years of history more important then my 46years of Australian history?"

Yes.

As someone who is indigenous but doesn't identify, having not any connection to any of it because growing up in the 70s/80s it was discouraged, especially if you easily passed for white. It's a difficult thing to deal with internally sometimes.

I support everything that we can do for indigenous people to make their lives better. @Nerf Herder I do think it is something like you describe with the voice for parliament. It doesn't need an end game. Not everyone in a community has to agree on a thing for it to work.
 

wavike

Likes Dirt
A link to this was in ABC news. Has changed my perception of Aus first nations and my need to research more pre-colonial history of this (my) country -
A south-west Victorian Indigenous site that is older than the pyramids has been added to the UNESCO World Heritage List.
Key points:
  • A 6,600-year-old Indigenous aquaculture site in Victoria has been added to the World Heritage List
  • Older than the pyramids, the site proves that Indigenous people were agriculturally inclined
  • The listing ends a 17-year campaign for recognition and is expected to boost tourism in the area
  • After more than a decade of hard work and lobbying, the Budj Bim Cultural Landscape near Portland was accepted onto the list at a meeting in Baku, Azerbaijan on the weekend.
The site was created about 6,600 years ago by the Gunditjmara people, who used stones to build an elaborate series of channels and pools to harvest eels from Lake Condah.
There is also evidence at the site of stone dwellings, and trees that may have been used to smoke or preserve the eels that were caught.
Not only does Budj Bim bust the myth that all Indigenous people were nomadic and not agriculturally inclined, it is also considered one of the oldest aquaculture sites in the world.
 

rowdyflat

chez le médecin
Dick Smith doesnt surprise me he has plenty of shares.
I also get franking credits which is unfair .
Old LNP voters love them and feel entitled.
 

John U

MTB Precision
A link to this was in ABC news. Has changed my perception of Aus first nations and my need to research more pre-colonial history of this (my) country -
A south-west Victorian Indigenous site that is older than the pyramids has been added to the UNESCO World Heritage List.
Key points:
  • A 6,600-year-old Indigenous aquaculture site in Victoria has been added to the World Heritage List
  • Older than the pyramids, the site proves that Indigenous people were agriculturally inclined
  • The listing ends a 17-year campaign for recognition and is expected to boost tourism in the area
  • After more than a decade of hard work and lobbying, the Budj Bim Cultural Landscape near Portland was accepted onto the list at a meeting in Baku, Azerbaijan on the weekend.
The site was created about 6,600 years ago by the Gunditjmara people, who used stones to build an elaborate series of channels and pools to harvest eels from Lake Condah.
There is also evidence at the site of stone dwellings, and trees that may have been used to smoke or preserve the eels that were caught.
Not only does Budj Bim bust the myth that all Indigenous people were nomadic and not agriculturally inclined, it is also considered one of the oldest aquaculture sites in the world.
There’s a site out in the western district somewhere with a astronomical calendar created by the First Nations also. A similar thing to Stonehenge but much older. I’ll post a link if I can find it.

Found it.
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-12/aboriginal-astronomy-provides-clues-to-ancient-life/7925024
 

Haakon

veni, vidi, volanti
A hell of a lot more human history has been lost to time than they’ll ever find. There have been some cool ones lately.

Aside from some rethinking on how long humans have been in this neck of the woods, it’s the new discoveries on how long Homo sapiens may have coexisted with other species that intrigues me.

That and the 3000 year old almost intact Phonecien trading ship found at the bottom of the Black Sea...

Lots of cool stuff no doubt yet to be found all over the place.
 

Nerf Herder

Wheel size expert
I’m about 5th generation Australian. Both sides of my family came for the gold rush at the end of the 19th century. I feel I don’t have the same claim of belonging here as the First Nations people.
Years ago I was of similar frame of mind to yourself. Born here, belong just as much. I also used to vote conservative. Heaps has changed since then.
Just quoting to direct this reply ... also to Scotty T

I’ve been reading more but also below helped me gain a better understanding of the mechanics of the voice.


Thinking positively ... I don’t see the aim is to disenfranchise none Indigenous
Re 5th gen and same claim of belonging ... coupled with the 40k vs 46 years of history ... I don’t see history is relevant or critical for the Constitutional Voice ... but I understand it’s an important filter that ultimately justifies the need for the advisory board.

I see it as although the white buggers that thought up the stolen generation thing may have had all the best intentions... for that time frame and society ... which was racist in the extreme ... it highlights the lack of cultural sensitivity and knowledge to implement policy affecting the minority group. With this in mind I completely understand the advisory Board and the need for inclusion in the constitution... ie they don’t want future governments to unwind what has been put in place. Similarly, it’s advice ... but I’d hope the members of the board were appointed due to expertise and not political appointments.

I like the idea of an Indigenous vote, but I don’t think community elders are voted in are they?

I’m still against compensation ... but there is no detail on this ... so time will tell

Has been an interesting journey so far... I’ve spoken to more Indigenous people in the last 2 weeks then I have in the last 10years.
 
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