The election thread - Two middle-late aged white men trying to be blokey and convincing..., same old shit, FFS.

[John U]

I've never heard an abo complain about how the Westminster system is repressing them. Yes I think that argument has been plucked from nowhere.

I was watching ABC24 last night and they mentioned NZ proposing to change their flag. I BBC radio interviewer Julie Bishop yesterday, in a way she doesn't get grilled in this country, and the flag was one of the topics they covered. The Brits seem to be more aware of these issues than Australians.

This is where I got it from.

 

[al_]

I keep about half an eye on the indigenous debate and honestly I think they are much more concerned with a number of issues rather than if we are a republic or not. Honestly, that seems like the biggest red herring of all.

I understand Wombat's point that we can have this discussion as well as dealing with the big issues, can't disagree there. I guess I'd just prefer to see all that money spent on something where we will actually get a real return from (rather than a symbolic return) such as education, defence, diplomatic corps, environment, booze, aged care, universities, oh god, please, universities........

All of the aboriginal community leaders I work with care about the colonisation of Australia. The monarchy and flag are ongoing reminders of the occupation of their land and genocide.

Independence won't deliver practical changes on the practical challenges, but that doesn't mean the symbolism doesn't matter. I don't think simplifying the debate into those terms is productive either - we have the resources and capacity to contemplate the future of the nation and day-to-day policy matters. I honestly believe that this debate would strengthen a modern Australian identity and form a stronger vision for the issues you listed.

And oney is already being pulled out of education, the environment, health, aged care etc. I would rather money be spent there too, but we can't blame the cuts on anything other than ideology. Rationalising our independence against services being sacrificed on these grounds isn't particularly a compelling argument.

 

[rednightmare]

I've never heard an abo complain about how the Westminster system is repressing them. Yes I think that argument has been plucked from nowhere.

Not sure why you haven't been banned for this comment...

 

[scblack]

Not sure why you haven't been banned for this comment...

Banned for what???

Its not offensive, its not insulting, I'm not being racist, its not bad language, its not pornographic, its not bullying, its not a bike shop complaint.

Keep your political correctness to yourself...

 

[brisneyland]

It is offensive.

 

[johnny]

I'm not really sure with the problem there either.

What's wrong with shortening the word Aborigine to Abo the same way we shorten Australian to Aussie?

Why is that wrong?

 

[johnny]

It is offensive.

Why? It's just an abbreviation.

 

[al_]

I've never heard an abo complain about how the Westminster system is repressing them. Yes I think that argument has been plucked from nowhere.

Wow. Ok. Do you know what happened when the settlers arrived? Colonial occupation? Genocide? Lots of bad shit etc.

 

[pink poodle]

Banned for what???

Its not offensive, its not insulting, I'm not being racist, its not bad language, its not pornographic, its not bullying, its not a bike shop complaint.

Keep your political correctness to yourself...

Have you ever attempted to use that term in conversation with an indigenous person? Not trying to point fingers or hijack the thread here, just encouraging a rethink for anyone who uses that term (if which there seems a growing number). Political correctness isn't part of that equation.

 

[johnny]

There must be a sensitivity that I'm unaware of here, one that I seriously don't understand.


No one had better call me an Aussie ever again. Seriously fucking offensive.

 

[al_]

Banned for what???

Its not offensive, its not insulting, I'm not being racist, its not bad language, its not pornographic, its not bullying, its not a bike shop complaint.

Keep your political correctness to yourself...

It is offensive to many because of it has historically been commonly used to persecute the indigenous population on racial grounds - generally to vilify and identify as different and lesser. No word itself is offensive, but the meaning comes from their usage and history. These factors also inform the connotation, which still has significant meaning even without strict denotation. To say this is just political correctness is ignorant.

This is such basic stuff that I am genuinely embarrassed to need to explain it to an adult.

 

[Mr Awesome]

There must be a sensitivity that I'm unaware of here, one that I seriously don't understand.


No one had better call me an Aussie ever again. Seriously fucking offensive.

Agree and if they do I will be more offended then you on your behalf.

 

[pink poodle]

I'm not really sure with the problem there either.

What's wrong with shortening the word Aborigine to Abo the same way we shorten Australian to Aussie?

Why is that wrong?

Aussie is an abbreviation that Australians have chosen for themselves and use with pride. Abo (auto correct makes is about!) Is a brand that was placed upon indigenous people and used with scorn and derision. Regardless of a modern users current intention with the word, it comes with baggage. From my experiences with Aboriginal people they have their own names (such as Koori or Murray) that reflect their geographical ancestory.

Similar phrases with baggage that wouldn't be considered worthy of use in polite conversation would include:
- chinga
- spick
- daygo (I don't even know how to spell that one)
- wog
- nips
- slant eyes
- coons
- nigga
- boy (a reference to slave days in the usa)
- Whitey
And im sure there are many other examples.

Of course there are current pressures to change laws around racial villification and this could all change and we will go back to an even greater Anglo focus.

 

[brisneyland]

I'm guessing you lot also call American black folk niggers as well do you?

 

[al_]

There must be a sensitivity that I'm unaware of here, one that I seriously don't understand.


No one had better call me an Aussie ever again. Seriously fucking offensive.

How often have you been genuinely attacked on racial grounds? How often to people use 'aussie' as a tag to ridicule or degrade you solely on your race?

 

[johnny]

It is offensive to many because of it has historically been commonly used to persecute the indigenous population on racial grounds - generally to vilify and identify as different and lesser. No word itself is offensive, but the meaning comes from their usage and history. These factors also inform the connotation, which still has significant meaning even without strict denotation. To say this is just political correctness is ignorant.

This is such basic stuff that I am genuinely embarrassed to need to explain it to an adult.

Given that the word has also been very largely used as a simple noun without connotation I think it's very clearly a issue of political correctness.

That's not to say political correctness is wrong, maybe not using the word is the right way to go, I don't know.

But to say that this isn't political correctness is just ridiculous.

 

[johnny]

I'm guessing you lot also call American black folk niggers as well do you?

YEah because the issue of black folk in the US and Australia are totally the same.

Get a grip, mate.

 

[Art Vanderlay]

Time for a change of topic.

 

[scblack]

Have you ever attempted to use that term in conversation with an indigenous person? Not trying to point fingers or hijack the thread here, just encouraging a rethink for anyone who uses that term (if which there seems a growing number). Political correctness isn't part of that equation.

Yes, I have used the term with an abo. In personal conversation. THEY are not offended.

And an abo has used the term HIMSELF. Again in personal conversation with me.

The creation of "offense" due to your personal sensibilities around politically correct terminology does not mean this abbreviation offends aboriginals. Just you.

 

[pink poodle]

There must be a sensitivity that I'm unaware of here, one that I seriously don't understand.


No one had better call me an Aussie ever again. Seriously fucking offensive.

I think part of it is context, similar to the ever present use of the word nigga in rap music.

And I'm with you! Fuck I hate being called an Aussie. Really grates me. Mainly because of the nationalistic stoooooopidity usually associated with the word. Oi. Oi. Oi. Seems mainly to happen when I've been in NZ (I'm sure they know how lame it is!) Or when I run into a bogan in a far off place...