The election thread - Two middle-late aged white men trying to be blokey and convincing..., same old shit, FFS.

[Zaf]

Removed by user

 

[Haakon]

The EV thing was super simple. It seems Labor just adopted the LNP's existing assumptions about EV sales in 10 years from now and simply stated it as their own target.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04...sks-bipartisan-electric-car-policies/10981902

It was just a sales targets and no one said anything about existing cars or the 50% of the sales in 2030 that could be a diesel Hilux (not that Toyota will be making them then anyway).

How that translated into the "further confusion about electric cars stuff that Bill was putting forward " that people based voting decisions on is nothing to do with the oppositions campaign.

 

[Oddjob]

Does anyone think Scomo has been or will be a good prime minister?

Full disclosure: I voted Liberal for Fiona Martin in Reid but I'm not optimistic given Scomo and Frydenberg's performance to date.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[Zaf]

Removed by user

 

[Zaf]

Removed by user

 

[Haakon]

Yeah, I know optics matter. And they failed. Its hard though when if you want to be honest you have to sell it on the actual issue. The counter arguments didnt need to be factual so could be simple throwaway lines - which stick better.

I dont know what the answer is. Is it simply "you have to lie to get elected"?

 

[Calvin27]

Frydenberg's performance

I've met Frydenberg a few times surprisingly. My read on that bloke is he is more quite far right in terms of economic policy, moderate right on social issues but he does come across as someone you could reason with (always hard to tell with party lines etc.). Ran into him at the polling booth sat and you can see he is concerned about environment issues (not to be mistaken with the environment if ya get what I mean). Julian Burnside from the greens in that electorate had a huge swing and Frydenberg lost 6% in basically liberal heartland. The kicker is all of this and more went straight to the greens candidate. Whether he believes it or not, he has to move on climate or risk losing that electorate possibly in the next election.

 

[Calvin27]

I dont know what the answer is. Is it simply "you have to lie to get elected"?

The answer is go gently. Propose one landmark policy because that's all people can digest and it better be a simple one at that - preferably in a three word slogan. Get in government and then start making changes. Unfortunately people dislike change and you have to show them it can work.

If you look at John Howard's reign he did in fact hold back a lot of his preferred policies and roll them out one at a time. It's not like he went to the first election with GST and work choices - that's basically what labor did.

 

[Haakon]

The answer is go gently. Propose one landmark policy because that's all people can digest and it better be a simple one at that - preferably in a three word slogan. Get in government and then start making changes. Unfortunately people dislike change and you have to show them it can work.

If you look at John Howard's reign he did in fact hold back a lot of his preferred policies and roll them out one at a time. It's not like he went to the first election with GST and work choices - that's basically what labor did.

So that's a yes then. Great...

 

[Binaural]

I dont know what the answer is. Is it simply "you have to lie to get elected"?

Funny you should say that. Ross Gittens, an economic writer I quite like, made this point quite effectively.
https://www.smh.com.au/federal-elec...n-out-to-be-the-easy-bit-20190519-p51owo.html

Worth noting in addition to this - it's smart tactics to keep a low profile in opposition to a unpopular government. Shorten stuck his neck out, and unfortunately I suspect we won't see that again for a while.

 

[Haakon]

concerned about environment issues (not to be mistaken with the environment if ya get what I mean).

Yes, this is a recurring them on that side.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...renewables-to-boost-environmental-credentials

 

[Nambra]

Does anyone think Scomo has been or will be a good prime minister?

Full disclosure: I voted Liberal for Fiona Martin in Reid but I'm not optimistic given Scomo and Frydenberg's performance to date.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

If he shat his dacks in maccas 20 years ago, I say he's ok - it makes him a relatable character.

Seriously though, it's a good question OJ, and as much as people might think that we should vote for policy and not the person (and arguably we did if you read the postmortems), a leader needs to be a good salesperson; draw in people and form an emotional connection with them etc. Bill was just a bit too wooden.

Morrison has a likeable enough ordinary-bloke sort of demeanor, a little reminiscent of the late Bob Hawke. And before the outrage starts, I'm not saying they're equals by any stretch. I'm only suggesting that in different circumstances he'd probably come across as a likeable sort of bloke. He has to shrug off the stigma as a guy who replaced Turnbull, define his leadership and earn his legitimacy. And as @Calvin27 says, they won't be able to ignore the sentiment and polling around the environment. We will turf them out in three years if they don't.

As far as a Labor leadership goes, Albo and Bowen are just Bill 2.0 - I respect Tanya for prioritising her family and wouldn't rule her out down the track. Jim Chalmers looks supportable as new blood too - being a QLD'er he would certainly appeal to us coal loving reef destroyers in the north. The leader and deputy usually come from different states to balance the factions within, so if Tanya remains as deputy I can't see Albo at the helm. Bowen possibly has less appeal than Shorten IMO...

 

[Calvin27]

So that's a yes then. Great...

I'm slightly more optimistic. It just needs to be shown that it can work. People dislike change. Tell them what you stand for and you ideology and let them decide on that - that's not lying it's just elevator pitching.

 

[steve jobs' pancreas]

The answer is go gently. Propose one landmark policy because that's all people can digest and it better be a simple one at that - preferably in a three word slogan. Get in government and then start making changes. Unfortunately people dislike change and you have to show them it can work.

If you look at John Howard's reign he did in fact hold back a lot of his preferred policies and roll them out one at a time. It's not like he went to the first election with GST and work choices - that's basically what labor did.

I have a massive problem with that approach, but accept its probably the right approach to get in.

 

[Zaf]

Removed by user

 

[hifiandmtb]

It's not about what you or I can do, it's not about the individual, it's about the collective whole, driven by overarching policy we are prepared to accept.

A fee & dividend scheme makes a hell of a lot of sense:

https://www.carbonpricingleadership...-fee-and-dividend-bill-now-before-us-congress

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fee_and_dividend

https://citizensclimatelobby.org/basics-carbon-fee-dividend/

Anyone have any comments on this?

I feel this is the most equitable, fair & outcome-focussed solution for CC.

I wish at least one local political party proposed it so it could be discussed...

 

[Haakon]

I want to make a joke and say "do you know another way?" but again, apply Hanlon's Razor to the situation a little. It's more likely they hit barriers to achieving the promises they put forward than it was that they intentionally misled their electorate. As a general rule, people aren't out there to mislead and disappoint people, and we can also mention that some of the worst atrocities came with the best intentions, but I think for the most part that holds true.

As heated and pissy we can all get with each other online, I think we'd all generally have a laugh and a share meal together without trouble; and we'd follow that assumption in our day to day life with most people we'd meet. My girlfriend is as politically left and green as can be, and the most loving and compassionate person in the world, and currently off on a month long Yoga Teacher Training course in Bali. And except for being really, super, ultra green, I'm more...lets be polite and say "a weaponised autistic brain with a gun licence", and we find a way to not only co-exist, to want to continue that. A very long way of saying, we can have a yawing divide in opinions and make them reconcilable with a bit of effort.

A fractal of how Gov't should be; a left and a right that balance each other out and walk a tightrope of big dreams and their practical execution.

No, many parts of this election involved direct and targeted falsehoods. It wasn't just matters of interpretation, it involved official complaints to the AEC "The AEC has no legislative role in regulating the political content of electoral advertising and communication. The Electoral Act also does not regulate truth in electoral communications".

But on the rest, agreed most of us would do fine in person. I am generally pretty chilled if a little socially retarded in person...

 

[Ultra Lord]

I am generally pretty chilled if a little socially retarded in person...

Found zafs second account.

He’s been playing us from both sides from the start!

 

[Calvin27]

But on the rest, agreed most of us would do fine in person.

Bar a few outliers, I think most people a can agree on most political issues, it's the execution that is usually the hard bit.

ScoMo day 3 in office is tough gig. He's already backflipped on tax cuts this FY and looks like the RBA is gearing to cut rates as well which will hurt those franked dividend pensioners a lot more than they think.

Meanwhile all sorts of holy wars being waged towards the red state of Victoria at the moment. poker bets to the tune of $4bn to build a freeway that is probably the most controversial political hot potato this side of year 2000. Frydenberg also wants a level crossing prioritized near his electorate lol. State labor playing hardball for now.

 

[silentbutdeadly]

Does anyone think Scomo has been or will be a good prime minister?

Full disclosure: I voted Liberal for Fiona Martin in Reid but I'm not optimistic given Scomo and Frydenberg's performance to date.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

ScoMo will be fine for a while. Given that he was basically the only Liberal or National face of the election at a country scale then the victory is all his (just as the failure would have been). And because it's all his then none of his mob will toy with that.

After all...this was a victory. But not a landslide. There's not much margin to play with at the next election if ScoMo and his team go off tap.

Most of the bleeding edge of his team are reasonably capable and politically ruthless. If they can see votes in it then they'll pursue something new.

My only (admittedly minor) concern is how beholden they feel they are to Queensland (and the Queensland MPs in particular) for the position they find themselves in and how that might influence their decision making going forward...