RIDEMTB4LIFE
Squid
avid juicy 5s are reasonable and a bit cheaper than elixers
The Hardtail Downhill Thread.
- Thread starter Zyphryss
- Start date
swearmother
Squid
puffnfresh40
Likes Dirt
i think youre a tosser.
ben_rides_a_bike
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Yeah i like talking myself up to, im even faster....
Jazz
Likes Bikes
Or Option 5) The track is really well suited to hardtails
or option 6) He is a better rider than his mate.
You can't seriously believe that a hardtail could never bet a dually???
Wow adding heaps to the conversation here aren't ya?
fairy1
Banned
Sounds like you're puffnfresh man sausage.
shiredhr
Likes Bikes
just because someone goes out and buys a glory doesnt mean theyre instantly fast... i wish this was the case! then i could go out and buy a demo and be like sam hill
ps. not to talk myself up but one of my friends also has a glory, and i truly shit all over his race times on an 08 sasquatch!
eg. 4:10 versus 4:30
http://www.dropmachine.com/Feature/hardtail-dh-the-real-deal-a364.html
WTF? Was that a hardtail?
Those are some of the comments you might hear over the wind rushing by your head and the rocks bashing off the bottom of your BB, and people shouting and cheering you on! You just cleaned a toughest section of the course, that has even plagued the best, most expensive full suspension race rigs. You’re a hard tail DH racer, and that one moment of nailing down a section and getting a reaction from the crowd, that they will talk about at the bottom after the race, can mean more then getting a medal put around your neck.
Hey there ! Most of you already know me, for those who don’t my name is
John Scharff, “Scarffy” here on DM.
I am 2004 and 2005 Provincial Overall Series HT Winner
2005 Provincial Championship Finals HT Winner.
2 Time Canada Cup HT winner, the most recent last week at
Mount Tremblant, Quebec.
Jeff asked me to write down a little Blurb on DH Hard tailing, what it is all about, and the ups and downs of HT racing. Mostly the ups, cause the Downs are a little painful to talk about.
A few years back, the Promoters decided to add a new category to the race scene. It was decided that HT Bikes would be given there own category. I assume this was to get people started in to racing, that really weren’t sure if they wanted to spend the bucks on the big race rigs. It seemed to work at the time. But then a few of us looked at is as a totally different animal, linked to the sport we love. Being able to ride a rigid ass’d bike down the same terrain as a 9 inch travel bike seem like a challenge that needed to be taken on.
At first it was decided that the HT’s would not be allowed to do some of the features on the race run that the big bikes would do, for safety reasons I guess. The Rock drop at Kelso would be the best example. I still remember the Race where Keith Waechter changed it all for the Ht’s racing in Ontario. Out of Protest of not being able to do the drop, he ran right thru the barrier Tape to the drop, yelling for spectators to get out of his line. He cleaned the drop and the crowd went wild. This was big back then. Anyway he was disqualified, but that was last time in Ontario that HT racers were not given an option about the line to take. Thanks Keith!
I guess enough of the history of the HT scene on the Dh course. Let’s talk about getting in to HT racing. This is for the new riders wanting to try racing out, or the Long time big bike riders looking to add new spice to their sport.
I guess like anything you need a good “safe” bike that is going to take the beating that comes with DH racing. A strong frame is a must, Duh! Good reliable rims are a bonus, as they take more of a beating then the wheels riding with 8-9” of give above them. Good components are handy along with a reliable, sturdy Chain guide. The last thing you want to do is drop at chain during your run. You would be amazed at how much more a chain gets slapped around on the HT’s. I have seen many HT’s stopped on the side of a run with, the rider fighting to get his chain back on. Just cause they cheaped out on the guide. You can pay now or you can pay later. To buy a good guide isn’t that expensive. I strongly recommend it.
So now we are going racing. You already have the safety Protection that comes with racing so I won’t need to get into that right?
OK so here is the “Not so big secret of DH-HT” without sounding like a blurb from the Karate Kid…… You have to be one with your bike! Your legs are that 8-9 inches of rear travel, your upper body and arms are the 4-5 inches of travel you are lacking from that smaller front fork. Use them! Don’t ride stiff or you are going to be bucked over the bars and kissing rock in no time. I have found that I rely on my body more to make it over those nasty rocks, stumps and logs. And it carried over to the Full squish for me as well, having to do this. Pump your bike over sections, suck up hits! A BMX past can really help out on stuff like this. Spending a little time in the gym helps with the extra strength need to do this as well. I am not saying you need to be a gym rat, cause we all want to be out riding our bikes, that is what this is all about. But following a simple easy strength and stretching plan can help a lot, in the long run.
Look at lines harder and different, it can be a totally different race course and a HT. Twice the fun, right?
Another important thing to remember is that things are smoother in the air. The rocks that would seem like a small fart under your ass on a DH rig can leave you swinging from trees if you hit them full out on a HT. Remember pre-jumping an obstacle can save a lot of beating that body and bike will take and save you energy. Your ability to throw your bike around is much easier on a hardtail which can save you in a last minute jam.
Brakes are another component you don’t want to cheap out on. A good 8 inch brakes set can make your ride a lot more in control and enjoyable. Braking at the proper times and not braking at the proper times, can give you the edge needed for a successful time on the clock. Those choppy brake ruts left by all the other riders can make a easy section, a lot more difficult on a HT. Too hard on the brakes in these sections can leave our ass end jumping 6-8 inches 20 to 30 times in a matter of a couple of seconds, leaving you out of control and at the mercy of the bike gods. Keep an eye forward and think about the speed and where you want to be brake before the ruts and enter that corner under a controlled speed where you can carry your momentum around that corner. Look for that smoother line thru the section. It will save you time and energy.
One thing a HT has over the big bikes is the ability to turn in tighter corners. Use this! Also being able to accelerate out of a corner or tight section is better on a hardtail, do to the fact that we all know, the pedalling efficiency is much more better on a HT.
Those long pedal sections that we all know and love in Ontario, can be done much quicker and easier on a HT over the bigger heavier bikes. Remember those sections and use them wisely. Save your energy for these sections and you can make up a lot of time on the clock by getting your sprint in, on these sections.
Racing hardtail I find, is much more harder on the body then the conventional methods of getting down a DH course. No big surprise, but your body is taking a shit kicking on that hill.
Arm pump? You haven’t experienced it till you have ridden a C-Cup course in Quebec, on a HT. You actually have to pry you fingers off the grips, they are so cramped. You try to ride loose but there is only so much you can do. You are getting rag dolled in a fun sort of a way. Never had this much fun getting the complete shit knocked out of me. LOL
As much as I hate to say it, sometimes a there are certain sections in a course, specially in Quebec, that a hard tail has no business being. I know that myself and a few other riders are going to try to do it, but that is just cause we are ego-maniacs and our pride won’t let us take the easy line. But the important thing is to ride that HT within your comfort zone. If you are going to waste 15 seconds riding slow and cautious through the expert line maybe even crashing losing more time or take 10 seconds going through the “Easy option” What makes more sense? You be the judge.
Sometimes “pride can hurt you” On the clock and on the body. There is nothing wrong with taking the easy option on a HT. Remember those race courses were designed for the big Rigs, not those “cute little Hardtails” Don’t kill your self. It’s more fun making it to the bottom.
I guess to sum it all up, is that Hard tail downhill racing is a whole different animal. Why do we do it? Well, why did we all get started in DH racing? Cause we like doing things different from regular society. Racing DH Hard tail is just one more step in wanting to do things a little different.
I get a kick out of sitting at the bottom of a lift at Bromont or Tremblant with my HT and people giving you the raised eyebrow and asking you, if you are mentally all there! They are the same people that will come up to after you throw done a race run with good time and give you a pat on the back and say good job. Kind of funny.
I race both HT and Full squish categories, and friends and fellow racers say I am nuts for trying to do both. That I am beating myself up and tiring myself out to much trying to get my second run in. I love to race hard tail, just as much as I love riding my big bike or any other bike for that matter. I get the same buzz from it that I got when I started doing this sport years ago. If I enjoy it, then how can it be wrong?
HT in Ontario is a great way to try out our amazing sport. If you are wanting to get your feet wet on the race scene without spending the big bucks on a bike, or if you want to try something new. Our promoter will give a deal too make it easier on the pocket book if you want to race 2 categories. This is a great way to get an extra race run in during the days event. It will add to your enjoyment of the sport, and is a great way to hone your skills on a bike. You will only come out of it a better rider!
Cya’ll on the Hill
scarffy
WTF? Was that a hardtail?
Those are some of the comments you might hear over the wind rushing by your head and the rocks bashing off the bottom of your BB, and people shouting and cheering you on! You just cleaned a toughest section of the course, that has even plagued the best, most expensive full suspension race rigs. You’re a hard tail DH racer, and that one moment of nailing down a section and getting a reaction from the crowd, that they will talk about at the bottom after the race, can mean more then getting a medal put around your neck.
Hey there ! Most of you already know me, for those who don’t my name is
John Scharff, “Scarffy” here on DM.
I am 2004 and 2005 Provincial Overall Series HT Winner
2005 Provincial Championship Finals HT Winner.
2 Time Canada Cup HT winner, the most recent last week at
Mount Tremblant, Quebec.
Jeff asked me to write down a little Blurb on DH Hard tailing, what it is all about, and the ups and downs of HT racing. Mostly the ups, cause the Downs are a little painful to talk about.
A few years back, the Promoters decided to add a new category to the race scene. It was decided that HT Bikes would be given there own category. I assume this was to get people started in to racing, that really weren’t sure if they wanted to spend the bucks on the big race rigs. It seemed to work at the time. But then a few of us looked at is as a totally different animal, linked to the sport we love. Being able to ride a rigid ass’d bike down the same terrain as a 9 inch travel bike seem like a challenge that needed to be taken on.
At first it was decided that the HT’s would not be allowed to do some of the features on the race run that the big bikes would do, for safety reasons I guess. The Rock drop at Kelso would be the best example. I still remember the Race where Keith Waechter changed it all for the Ht’s racing in Ontario. Out of Protest of not being able to do the drop, he ran right thru the barrier Tape to the drop, yelling for spectators to get out of his line. He cleaned the drop and the crowd went wild. This was big back then. Anyway he was disqualified, but that was last time in Ontario that HT racers were not given an option about the line to take. Thanks Keith!
I guess enough of the history of the HT scene on the Dh course. Let’s talk about getting in to HT racing. This is for the new riders wanting to try racing out, or the Long time big bike riders looking to add new spice to their sport.
I guess like anything you need a good “safe” bike that is going to take the beating that comes with DH racing. A strong frame is a must, Duh! Good reliable rims are a bonus, as they take more of a beating then the wheels riding with 8-9” of give above them. Good components are handy along with a reliable, sturdy Chain guide. The last thing you want to do is drop at chain during your run. You would be amazed at how much more a chain gets slapped around on the HT’s. I have seen many HT’s stopped on the side of a run with, the rider fighting to get his chain back on. Just cause they cheaped out on the guide. You can pay now or you can pay later. To buy a good guide isn’t that expensive. I strongly recommend it.
So now we are going racing. You already have the safety Protection that comes with racing so I won’t need to get into that right?
OK so here is the “Not so big secret of DH-HT” without sounding like a blurb from the Karate Kid…… You have to be one with your bike! Your legs are that 8-9 inches of rear travel, your upper body and arms are the 4-5 inches of travel you are lacking from that smaller front fork. Use them! Don’t ride stiff or you are going to be bucked over the bars and kissing rock in no time. I have found that I rely on my body more to make it over those nasty rocks, stumps and logs. And it carried over to the Full squish for me as well, having to do this. Pump your bike over sections, suck up hits! A BMX past can really help out on stuff like this. Spending a little time in the gym helps with the extra strength need to do this as well. I am not saying you need to be a gym rat, cause we all want to be out riding our bikes, that is what this is all about. But following a simple easy strength and stretching plan can help a lot, in the long run.
Look at lines harder and different, it can be a totally different race course and a HT. Twice the fun, right?
Another important thing to remember is that things are smoother in the air. The rocks that would seem like a small fart under your ass on a DH rig can leave you swinging from trees if you hit them full out on a HT. Remember pre-jumping an obstacle can save a lot of beating that body and bike will take and save you energy. Your ability to throw your bike around is much easier on a hardtail which can save you in a last minute jam.
Brakes are another component you don’t want to cheap out on. A good 8 inch brakes set can make your ride a lot more in control and enjoyable. Braking at the proper times and not braking at the proper times, can give you the edge needed for a successful time on the clock. Those choppy brake ruts left by all the other riders can make a easy section, a lot more difficult on a HT. Too hard on the brakes in these sections can leave our ass end jumping 6-8 inches 20 to 30 times in a matter of a couple of seconds, leaving you out of control and at the mercy of the bike gods. Keep an eye forward and think about the speed and where you want to be brake before the ruts and enter that corner under a controlled speed where you can carry your momentum around that corner. Look for that smoother line thru the section. It will save you time and energy.
One thing a HT has over the big bikes is the ability to turn in tighter corners. Use this! Also being able to accelerate out of a corner or tight section is better on a hardtail, do to the fact that we all know, the pedalling efficiency is much more better on a HT.
Those long pedal sections that we all know and love in Ontario, can be done much quicker and easier on a HT over the bigger heavier bikes. Remember those sections and use them wisely. Save your energy for these sections and you can make up a lot of time on the clock by getting your sprint in, on these sections.
Racing hardtail I find, is much more harder on the body then the conventional methods of getting down a DH course. No big surprise, but your body is taking a shit kicking on that hill.
Arm pump? You haven’t experienced it till you have ridden a C-Cup course in Quebec, on a HT. You actually have to pry you fingers off the grips, they are so cramped. You try to ride loose but there is only so much you can do. You are getting rag dolled in a fun sort of a way. Never had this much fun getting the complete shit knocked out of me. LOL
As much as I hate to say it, sometimes a there are certain sections in a course, specially in Quebec, that a hard tail has no business being. I know that myself and a few other riders are going to try to do it, but that is just cause we are ego-maniacs and our pride won’t let us take the easy line. But the important thing is to ride that HT within your comfort zone. If you are going to waste 15 seconds riding slow and cautious through the expert line maybe even crashing losing more time or take 10 seconds going through the “Easy option” What makes more sense? You be the judge.
Sometimes “pride can hurt you” On the clock and on the body. There is nothing wrong with taking the easy option on a HT. Remember those race courses were designed for the big Rigs, not those “cute little Hardtails” Don’t kill your self. It’s more fun making it to the bottom.
I guess to sum it all up, is that Hard tail downhill racing is a whole different animal. Why do we do it? Well, why did we all get started in DH racing? Cause we like doing things different from regular society. Racing DH Hard tail is just one more step in wanting to do things a little different.
I get a kick out of sitting at the bottom of a lift at Bromont or Tremblant with my HT and people giving you the raised eyebrow and asking you, if you are mentally all there! They are the same people that will come up to after you throw done a race run with good time and give you a pat on the back and say good job. Kind of funny.
I race both HT and Full squish categories, and friends and fellow racers say I am nuts for trying to do both. That I am beating myself up and tiring myself out to much trying to get my second run in. I love to race hard tail, just as much as I love riding my big bike or any other bike for that matter. I get the same buzz from it that I got when I started doing this sport years ago. If I enjoy it, then how can it be wrong?
HT in Ontario is a great way to try out our amazing sport. If you are wanting to get your feet wet on the race scene without spending the big bucks on a bike, or if you want to try something new. Our promoter will give a deal too make it easier on the pocket book if you want to race 2 categories. This is a great way to get an extra race run in during the days event. It will add to your enjoyment of the sport, and is a great way to hone your skills on a bike. You will only come out of it a better rider!
Cya’ll on the Hill
scarffy
I'm racing the Vic series on a hardtail, hoping to be pretty competitive... Barjarg scares the shit out of me though
Jazz
Likes Bikes
I'm doing the Vic Dh Series, I am hoping all rounds but I have a wedding (mine) on the same weekend as Mt Beauty, not sure the missus will be kosher with me racing.
Clips?? No way, I like being able to bail, I have developed quite a skill for it on my hardtail!!!!
swearmother
Squid
Shredder! - PS.Ty Boemaker is a wankerps. not to talk myself up but one of my friends also has a glory, and i truly shit all over his race times on an 08 sasquatch!
eg. 4:10 versus 4:30
Ridden that track numerous times on HT- race run has never been overly successful, awesome fun on one though.I'm racing the Vic series on a hardtail, hoping to be pretty competitive... Barjarg scares the shit out of me though
It's actually not that hard to get used to clips, and once your used to them it's no more difficult then getting your foot off in 5 10's. I found it much better racing my ht in clips. I don't race a hard tail anymore thoughClips?? No way, I like being able to bail, I have developed quite a skill for it on my hardtail!!!!
zen zen
Likes Dirt
What the hell dude?. There is no need for that P.S part.