Timing systems for club races

spikenet

Likes Dirt
Hi gang,

Have been chatting with some clubbies and the question of timing systems has come up. At the moment races are done with ad-hock timing, some old school paper and pens, some home-made rfid stuff that is not particularly accurate or reliable with many participants not getting run times etc. Are there any good solutions out there that are affordable for a small club that can handle XC, DH and enduro (multiple stages) ?

Think I saw some discussion last year that someone was developing something but seemed to fizzle out..

cheers
 

Daniel Hale

She fid, he fid, I fidn't
multiple stage -do you mean fairly close together --in other words you need multiple timing mats that could get pretty expensive, xc is usually easy as you just need the one timing location, Dh, you need 2, enduro is more difficult as you might need multiple which will get into some big $
 

spikenet

Likes Dirt
multiple stage -do you mean fairly close together --in other words you need multiple timing mats that could get pretty expensive, xc is usually easy as you just need the one timing location, Dh, you need 2, enduro is more difficult as you might need multiple which will get into some big $
yeah would be great if can have 3 independant timed sections with timed transition inbetween for enduro races (or possibly a shared start with 3 different finishes). That way you can start the days racing and its all setup without the need to move things around plus set penalties if time cut-offs are not met on transition etc.

At this stage, just doing a reality check, would be awesome if the club can invest in a system that will last for years and enables the different disciplines to run their races with minimal fuss and reliability in results.
 

Dozer

Heavy machinery.
Staff member
You need to come to our next Coffs Downhill race and see the system our partners White Lightning Events use. It is the ducks guts and does everything you ask and more.
 

Daniel Hale

She fid, he fid, I fidn't
3 diff timing mats is prob going to run to $10K i would think, there are a number of systems on the mrket, you might get 3 a bit cheaper?, but you could also pay more. does the softeare your using already hook up to timing or do you need a software change also?
 

The Duckmeister

Has a juicy midrange
The system we use at Red Hill is made by (I think) Sport Ident or something like that. We have four stages and 50 chips, which cost around $8k, and we hire additional stages & chips as needed. It's the same system used by several endooro & DH events. If you want a more in-depth run-down of the guts of it, throw an email to vicepresident@redhillriders.com.au & Rhys should be able to fill you in.
 

spikenet

Likes Dirt
You need to come to our next Coffs Downhill race and see the system our partners White Lightning Events use. It is the ducks guts and does everything you ask and more.
Thanks for the offer, I'd be keen to check it out! Will PM you

3 diff timing mats is prob going to run to $10K i would think, there are a number of systems on the mrket, you might get 3 a bit cheaper?, but you could also pay more. does the softeare your using already hook up to timing or do you need a software change also?
software?? no nothing so whole system.

The system we use at Red Hill is made by (I think) Sport Ident or something like that. We have four stages and 50 chips, which cost around $8k, and we hire additional stages & chips as needed. It's the same system used by several endooro & DH events. If you want a more in-depth run-down of the guts of it, throw an email to vicepresident@redhillriders.com.au & Rhys should be able to fill you in.
Awesome thanks, will shoot them an email. 8k sounds sounds alot but in the terms of a club I think its a good investment.
 

Stredda

Runs naked through virgin scrub
Hi gang,

Have been chatting with some clubbies and the question of timing systems has come up. At the moment races are done with ad-hock timing, some old school paper and pens, some home-made rfid stuff that is not particularly accurate or reliable with many participants not getting run times etc. Are there any good solutions out there that are affordable for a small club that can handle XC, DH and enduro (multiple stages) ?

Think I saw some discussion last year that someone was developing something but seemed to fizzle out..

cheers
Our club used a Jaguar timing system for XC races, cost us about 12k after the dollar went through the floor. It runs adhesive chips that you stick on the back of the race plates and a square dish style antenna setup of up to 4 antennas to read the chips. The down side is that it's a US based system and support is difficult and the user interface is very complex as it does so many different types of races and Mountain Bike laps races is just a small sample so it took us ages to get it sorted and even now only one guy is really on top of it.

A mate of mine used the Sportident system for his gravity endure series and has just upgraded to the contactless system. It works really well for GE and probably DH but don't think it would do large group XC. This system works differently as the chip unit you strap on your wrist keeps all the info and the Start/Finish antenna sensors just tell the chip it has passed them.
We are thinking of offloading the Jaguar system to something a bit more user friendly so more club members can operate it. It is a good system and can do so much more than what we use it for, you just need to be computer savvy and have the time to nut it out.

The southern Tassie club Dirt Devils use an tablet app based system for DH racing and GE but it is not as accurate as it requires someone to tap the go button to send them off and another person to tap finish at the end.

I haven't seen a system that does both stage races and mass start laps races, I'd be interested to hear if there is.
 

spikenet

Likes Dirt
Our club used a Jaguar timing system for XC races, cost us about 12k after the dollar went through the floor. It runs adhesive chips that you stick on the back of the race plates and a square dish style antenna setup of up to 4 antennas to read the chips. The down side is that it's a US based system and support is difficult and the user interface is very complex as it does so many different types of races and Mountain Bike laps races is just a small sample so it took us ages to get it sorted and even now only one guy is really on top of it.

A mate of mine used the Sportident system for his gravity endure series and has just upgraded to the contactless system. It works really well for GE and probably DH but don't think it would do large group XC. This system works differently as the chip unit you strap on your wrist keeps all the info and the Start/Finish antenna sensors just tell the chip it has passed them.
We are thinking of offloading the Jaguar system to something a bit more user friendly so more club members can operate it. It is a good system and can do so much more than what we use it for, you just need to be computer savvy and have the time to nut it out.

The southern Tassie club Dirt Devils use an tablet app based system for DH racing and GE but it is not as accurate as it requires someone to tap the go button to send them off and another person to tap finish at the end.

I haven't seen a system that does both stage races and mass start laps races, I'd be interested to hear if there is.
Very interesting info. I'm surprised that the systems appear to not be a one size fits all with the various disciplines. I guess the issue with mass start is that reading of large number of chips all at once, but once the race is on the field should spread out and that shouldnt be an issue.

The club currently has a homemade RFID swipe on/off system for enduro but like you mention about the tablet app it requires people to sacrifice racing plus its not accurate/reliable at all.. add to that laptops to run it, batteries etc.
In a perfect world a system you setup that is stand-alone without the need of supervision would be great!
 

Stinky

Likes Dirt
Our club used a Jaguar timing system for XC races, cost us about 12k after the dollar went through the floor. It runs adhesive chips that you stick on the back of the race plates and a square dish style antenna setup of up to 4 antennas to read the chips. The down side is that it's a US based system and support is difficult and the user interface is very complex as it does so many different types of races and Mountain Bike laps races is just a small sample so it took us ages to get it sorted and even now only one guy is really on top of it.

A mate of mine used the Sportident system for his gravity endure series and has just upgraded to the contactless system. It works really well for GE and probably DH but don't think it would do large group XC. This system works differently as the chip unit you strap on your wrist keeps all the info and the Start/Finish antenna sensors just tell the chip it has passed them.
We are thinking of offloading the Jaguar system to something a bit more user friendly so more club members can operate it. It is a good system and can do so much more than what we use it for, you just need to be computer savvy and have the time to nut it out.

The southern Tassie club Dirt Devils use an tablet app based system for DH racing and GE but it is not as accurate as it requires someone to tap the go button to send them off and another person to tap finish at the end.

I haven't seen a system that does both stage races and mass start laps races, I'd be interested to hear if there is.
The Sportident contactless system should be able to do lap races if you use two of the larger units and set them to slave as a gate. Just program a time of day for the actual start and by the time riders come around for the end of lap one they should be spread out enough to read OK. For DH and Enduro the Sportident system is very good and relatively user friendly. there are quite a few systems floating around these days, and the importer is on the central coast so it shouldn't be too hard to sort out a demo or hire before you jump in.
 

The Duckmeister

Has a juicy midrange
The Sportident system does XC pretty well, there's just a little bit of different back-end setup because it runs on a separate bit of software. Because the system works on timestamping the chips, for a mass start, you set the start time and make sure the starter's watch is synchronised with the timing computer. Then it records the laps from that start time. What we haven't worked out yet is if it can do intermediate sectors within the lap.
 

Stinky

Likes Dirt
The Sportident system does XC pretty well, there's just a little bit of different back-end setup because it runs on a separate bit of software. Because the system works on timestamping the chips, for a mass start, you set the start time and make sure the starter's watch is synchronised with the timing computer. Then it records the laps from that start time. What we haven't worked out yet is if it can do intermediate sectors within the lap.
If you are using Sportident SI timing software you should be able to create segments within the lap as it allows for control points to be used multiple times. (obviously you would need to have sufficient number of BSMs) It struggled with this in earlier versions, but I have run a two lap Enduro event on this principle with no issues.
 
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Stredda

Runs naked through virgin scrub
The Sportident system does XC pretty well, there's just a little bit of different back-end setup because it runs on a separate bit of software. Because the system works on timestamping the chips, for a mass start, you set the start time and make sure the starter's watch is synchronised with the timing computer. Then it records the laps from that start time. What we haven't worked out yet is if it can do intermediate sectors within the lap.
That's interesting to know. I might get my mate to test it out one day. A system that does all races would be the go.

We did use out Jaguar system to do a DH once, it required radio contact to the start gate at the top, and the timer at the finish would enter the riders number and then count down the start over the radio and hit the button when he says go. The finish antennas would capture the time at the bottom. It worked quite well as there is less time to loose at the start gate with a manual enter than at the finish.
 

spikenet

Likes Dirt
The Sportident system does XC pretty well, there's just a little bit of different back-end setup because it runs on a separate bit of software. Because the system works on timestamping the chips, for a mass start, you set the start time and make sure the starter's watch is synchronised with the timing computer. Then it records the laps from that start time. What we haven't worked out yet is if it can do intermediate sectors within the lap.
Does the sportident kit come with software or is this something the users provide? Could you give some info on softwares that you have had success with?

cheers!
 

The Duckmeister

Has a juicy midrange
The Sportident system does include the necessary software as part of the package. Earlier versions had completely separate programs for XC & endooro/DH, but I believe newer versions are a lot more integrated. I may be wrong, but I think the programs are downloaded from their website with a licence code.
 

spikenet

Likes Dirt
The Sportident system does include the necessary software as part of the package. Earlier versions had completely separate programs for XC & endooro/DH, but I believe newer versions are a lot more integrated. I may be wrong, but I think the programs are downloaded from their website with a licence code.
Good to hear the system is undergoing continued developement. Yeah I have seen the downloads but didnt bother trying them as guess useless without all the gear and licence!
 

spikenet

Likes Dirt
The Sportident system does include the necessary software as part of the package. Earlier versions had completely separate programs for XC & endooro/DH, but I believe newer versions are a lot more integrated. I may be wrong, but I think the programs are downloaded from their website with a licence code.
Just had some clarification, the sportident set doesnt include any software, there is software available from the UK sportident distributer which is around $1000 for 5 year licence.. they have a new version of the old autodownload software called SiTiming. It sounds like clubs who own the sportident hardware use various software, some free some $$.

If your club techy guy is happy to chat with me I'd like to ask about the experience with the system/software. Not sure if this is the contact you sent me earlier?

cheers
 

Stredda

Runs naked through virgin scrub
One of the clubs near me timed our clubs Masters Games XC races with a tablet using Webscorer. Seemed to work ok and simple to use but you had to tap the screen and enter the rider as each one passed
 

spikenet

Likes Dirt
One of the clubs near me timed our clubs Masters Games XC races with a tablet using Webscorer. Seemed to work ok and simple to use but you had to tap the screen and enter the rider as each one passed
The club has had good experience with tablet and webscorer. Again, it needs a person to keep a close eye on competitors and realistically its no better then the clock and a running sheet. As yet the logistics of using that setup for enduro and dh limits it to xc.

The ultimate goal is to have setup and execution of club evens be as smooth and simple as possible. I really like the look of sportident system and from discussions I've had with other clubs and event managers they are real believers in it also. Sure its a big investment and the club will need people to become champions of the system, ultimately thats a decision of the members as to whether they want to head in that direction and the committee to execute it.

Thanks to Ducky and Dozer for the contacts, been very worthwhile talking to those guys!
 

Stredda

Runs naked through virgin scrub
The club has had good experience with tablet and webscorer. Again, it needs a person to keep a close eye on competitors and realistically its no better then the clock and a running sheet. As yet the logistics of using that setup for enduro and dh limits it to xc.

The ultimate goal is to have setup and execution of club evens be as smooth and simple as possible. I really like the look of sportident system and from discussions I've had with other clubs and event managers they are real believers in it also. Sure its a big investment and the club will need people to become champions of the system, ultimately thats a decision of the members as to whether they want to head in that direction and the committee to execute it.

Thanks to Ducky and Dozer for the contacts, been very worthwhile talking to those guys!
I suppose it depends on what your club wants to do. Our club is almost in the same boat, with the Innovative Timing Jaguar system being a pain and our timer moving on.

You can get a RFID chip reader to work with the tablet system. Around 10k for a Sportident system but we forked over 12 for the Jaguar. We might even look at just hiring a timer for our races.
 
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