Training, getting sick, questions, tips etc.

[iscarrr]

Hi guys,

I'm basically after some advice/tips from those who put in a decent amount of riding (ill qualify that as 8hrs+ a week).

In the last say 6 months ive been upping the amount im riding a fair bit, and to get right to the point, im getting sick more than i ever have, and im just over it.

As im sure a lot of you know, putting in all the hours, then to get sick, in this case a week out from the Angry Doc' which ive been preparing for for a while, really has just gutted me.

So here are my main questions:

1. Riding: I do a few road rides during the week, these start just after 5am, and go for around 2 hrs, normally pretty high intensity at points. A lot of the time ill show up to these rides running on about 6hrs or so +/- 30min sleep. I know this is not ideal, i just want to know if doing this 2-3 times a week on a regular basis has got me basically "asking for it" (re: getting sick). Other days id typically get 7-8hrs sleep.
   
2. Recovery after rides. Hydration, stretching, eating, the usual stuff. Do you find snacking a fair bit during the morning after a big ride works better than just holding off until lunch? I typically dont eat/drink target recovery food after rides, i would think this is more to do with muscle recovery as opposed to boosting the immune system after it coped a flogging from a hard ride.
   
3. Ride fueling. In morning rides i generally have 1 or 2 bits of toast with honey before i go and nothing else until im finished. Bigger weekend rides will be the same but will have a couple of bars during the ride (and of course a lot of water/gatorade). How does that sound? I dont feel like im running out of energy running on what ive mentioned, but i could try eating more before/during.
   
4. General nutrition. I eat pretty well. I definately eat a lot more than i used to. I do realise i could probably eat more fresh vegies than i currently do.
   
5. HR etc. I currently dont ride with a HR monitor. Would riding with one possibly reveal that im pushing myself too hard sometimes? Do many of you slow yourself down during training if your HR is getting too elevated?

I've been doing a bit of reading, and have found what looks like good info on the AIS site on the topic:

Athletes undertaking regular strenuous exercise walk a knife-edge between extreme physical well-being and impaired immune function. Research indicates that athletes are at increased risk of upper respiratory tract infection during periods of heavy exercise and for 1-2 weeks following race events (Nieman 1990). The cause of this increased risk is most likely due to the immunosuppressive actions of stress hormones such as adrenaline and cortisol (Gleeson et al. 2004).

Source: http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutri...raining2/boosting_immune_function_in_athletes

I realise this is not a typical post here, ive done some searching on the forum and not found a lot. (and yes ive seen the sticky'd training/nutrition threads)

Knowing a lot of you guys here are riding a lot more than i am, and would no doubt have had similar experiences, i just wanted to pick your brains over what youve found has helped remain healthy

 

[bickers]

I was having similar troubles for a while and making sure I got eight hours of z's per night made all the difference.

 

[mittagongmtb]

Stop stressing - doesn't sound like your overdoing it to me... more likely that you've just come down with one of the winter lurgies that seem to be more prevalent this past winter. Ask anyone in the medical game and they'll tell you that there have been a lot of viruses (possibly incl swine flu) around this year.

 

[spikenet]

I think you have highlighted a number of things that are probably not ideal for you. You've taken the time to detail your experience so here's a bit of mine.

Obviously everyone is different and I dunno how old you are but when I got all enthusiastic at the start of this year I suffered a similar problem to you. I also tended to ride with mates and all rides were a smash fest 3-4 a week + racing. After about 2 weeks my body would collapse and it would take a couple of weeks to recover.

I've since changed my training (to about 15hrs/w) 3 months ago, use my HRM religiously when training and try to ride alone if I'm training. If you cant afford a coach to help you get more effective in your training then read books like joe friels gold standard.
I'm sure lots of ppl here like to do the calorie restriction thing but for me to maintain my training plan I need to eat alot and replenish during my rides. My weight is not a priority.. What I'm trying to say is if your serious take appropriate steps and reap the rewards.

so in a nutshell I'd say:
think hard about your ride length and intensity, get a HRM and learn how to use it!
fuel yourself appropriately
plan in some easy recovery days

cheers

 

[64ponty]

Do you have a physical job? Adding less sleep + training + physical job could easily be overloading you.

I check my HR first thing in the morning to see if its normal, particularly after a hard session the day before. If it is high, I have either a rest day or reduce the training volume for that day. I find that now with more training under my belt (1yrs), this occurs less frequently (now only after 2 or 3 hard days in a row).

Remember that recovers is sleep + nutrition!

 

[Spanky_Ham]

People who exercise alot usually have a weakened immune system (British Journal of Sports Medicine2007; 41:13-18) during peak training times.

Interestingly you'll see top athletes getting struck down with random virus' as they come up to competitions. This can be as a result of the bodies immune system getting run down during ramping up of training - just before the rest period before the competition.

I posed this same question to a sports scientist and was given a whole heap of peer reviewed papers about it.... and, they all seem to say the same thing. LOTS of exercise can reduce your immune systems ability to defend home turf..

s

 

[Jackstack]

Adequate sleep and nutrition pretty much covers what you need to maintainan a healthy immune system without training, so when you do train it is even more critical.
Just read a book on sports nutrition and eating during any excercise that lasts longer than an hour is necessary not only for performance during but with recovery as well.
Also listen your body, if your dog tired and run down training is only going to make it worse and thats when the bugs will take over. Better to miss one training session and stay healthy than push on and then end up sick for a week.
Also every training session shouldn't be a smash fest a someone else said most training guides factor in recovery rides and even rest days.

 

[spudatm]

I know how you feel Iscarr. Ive only in the last 12-18 montsh starting doing big k's and having a dedicated training programme. When i first started i was getting sick all the time this seems to have stopped though{although like you a few days out from the doctor i have a bug, come on antibiotics} I think my problem was i increased my training load too quickly. i went from riding 70ks a week to 250. Now i follow an overload principal so 3 weeks of build and 1 week of rest. I also take some other precautions. if i have a heavy week at work i don't try and ride to my programme i just do what i can, if i feel even the slightest bit dodgy I don't ride and during school holidays {im a teacher} i dodn't follow the prorgramme i just ride when i want. Ive also decided that in future i will also target specific events and train hard 6-8 weeks in prep when im not focussing on an event i will include a lot more cross training to keep me fresh. ive found that preparing for the Angry doctor for the last 9 months has left me a bit flat and hence why i have got crook just before the race

 

[akashra]

The biggest favour you can do yourself is to get yourself at the very least a heart rate monitor, and start recording data. I recently imported all of mine (since Feb 2007) into SportTracks and am now using that with Training Load, which allows me to produce a PMC based on an activities TRIMP (Training Impulse) score. From this I'm able to clearly see when I'm doing too much, when I need to back off, and where I need to be at to target certain events.

But on top of that, most importantly is rest. Back around May-June last year I had about six weeks off work, and I was able to ramp up to 22 hours a week in the saddle. It was purely the 10 hours of sleep a night I was able to get that meant I didn't feel fatigued at all. I'm once again not working for a while, and I tell you, getting 10 hours a week is allowing me to fresher than any time in the last few months where I've been generally tired - it's all about rest. Of course, eating right also contributes a lot.

Also, as said, you need to do easy recovery rides - preferably your next ride the day after an intense ride should be kept below 65%HR, just spinning crap out of your legs. This is easy for me, since when I commute to work and it's usually so cold, 130HR is all I can manage.

As far as nutrition goes, you might want to try eating frequently and small, and ensuring you're eating straight after a ride (within 15 minutes), as well as on the bike. Otherwise your body is just going to eat whatever it can get, cannibalizing itself.

 

[WolfCreekPsycho]

I too have been struck down by the dreaded lurgy the week before the doctor

Im really bummed as this was my 40th pressie to myself. Im still convinced if I can start to feel ok tomorrow (been down since friday) then I should be ok for at least the 50

 

[bforblack]

This is a great thread and it's humbling to see the community come together to help like this with some quality info.
I ran into the same problem winter 2008 - riding about 10-15 hours a week but feeling flat by the end of winter.
My solution was fewer rides and longer rides - I had the fitness to do 5-6 hours every second Saturday and then take it really easy other times - some gym and some one hour rides.
I think the mind has a great deal of control over this - if you think you are getting tired and doughy, you will feel like that. The freshness of the mind is a major part too.
But if you switch it up - concentrate on the long rides and listen to your body, but then have a blast twice a week with a fun ride. Obviously you need the fitness base to get to this situation, but it might be part of the answer.

 

[Lanky Love]

Its good to hear others are feeling a bit crap before sunday. I was goign great but pretty tired this week. I can't comment too much on over training as im still learning myself. But with food. You need to be eating a good meal right after you ride. If i ride in the morning for 2 hours or less, I usualy just eat a musli bar and have breakfast when I get home. Eating after a trainign ride is very, very important though. If you don't eat after a ride, you will just feel dead and tired for the rest of the day. It also helps build muscle. Your body can not store protein (which is used to build muscle) so you need protein in your body already if you want to develop muscle. After a ride you should have a big meal with pleanty of protein and carbohydrate, then have a good strech and you will feel better, and your recovery will be far better.

 

[FierceRider]

well really this is very normal.....the more energy you expell doing physical activity the less there is in maintaining your immune system to its full strengh......yes adiquate sleep, and a good healthy diet will assist greatly, but you have to remember that athletes that are expelling tons of energy per day are very prone to getting sick.......hence the weakened immune system......the best way of dodging all the sickness is, maintain a good healthy diet, enough sleep, very good hygiene, and avoid people who are sick.
i hope this helps

 

[Warwick]

I am much happier if I have a few vita-brits before a ride. And some snacks during, but try and make it proper food (like fruit) and not those calorie bombs.
Ya gotta vary your schedule so you don't get sick of it.
I alternate between the roadie (yuk), the bike track bike (yay), and the MTB (glory and trumpets).
I certainly started to make gains when I started to back off a bit, and not destroy myself every ride. So don't smash yourself every ride.
A HRM is brilliant.

 

[Antsonline]

A well respected coach (Olympic medalists etc) once said to me..
"theres no such thing as over-training, just under-eating"

same guy also said...

"finish every session with the ability to do the same thing tomorrow"

i.e. dont go so hard on your reps or rides that you couldnt go out and do exactly the same ride the next day.
I've stuck to this and everything has been fine.
I would add that if I get less than 7hrs sleep a night for a few nights on the trot, I am mostly useless.

One thing i would add to the excellent comments from everyone is that these things take time, and learning your body and natural cycles of energy and tiredness will put you in a great position. That takes time - at least a couple of years of making mistakes, getting it right but not being sure why.
Keep a good training diary and record the basics - that will help you track back and see what works and doesnt.

 

[JD26]

All good points everyone has raised.

Now to actually help the immune system in my personal regime....

Vitamin C - by the bucket load
Vitamin E - a fair bit
Good food
Keep the house clean
Don't be around sick people (especially after a hard ride)


40g of Whey Protein Isolate after a decent workout followed by a Carb intake 30 minutes after the protein. These 2 work together to provide the insulin spike that will ensure that the body sucks in the most protein, most effectively, thus increasing recover. If you could see what your muscles looked like (inside) after a hammer, it would repulse you. Be good to them - give them protein!

8-9 hours sleep per night - like others have said - less will pretty much cripple you

Hydrate sufficiently.

hot cold therapy

Stretch

Massage

Chiropractic

There are other things but they may or may not work (eveyone is unique etc)

Good health allows for good continuity in training which allows for good gains in performance.

 

[Disco]

This is by far the best thread I have read in a long time...

I've been trying to get back into training to get my fitness back up (a few years now since riding XC competitively... spent discovering the joys of women, alcohol, cars and cigarettes) and have been finding it quite hard, also finding I was getting sick a hell of a lot more. The same applies to the missus, who has been getting into Tri's more and more over the last 6 months.

It has been so informative to not only view other peoples regimes to help combat a suffering immune system, but also just the fact that it actually does happen to more than just myself.

I'd like to thank all the people who positively contributed to this thread so far!

 

[FierceRider]

This is by far the best thread I have read in a long time...

I've been trying to get back into training to get my fitness back up (a few years now since riding XC competitively... spent discovering the joys of women, alcohol, cars and cigarettes) and have been finding it quite hard, also finding I was getting sick a hell of a lot more. The same applies to the missus, who has been getting into Tri's more and more over the last 6 months.

It has been so informative to not only view other peoples regimes to help combat a suffering immune system, but also just the fact that it actually does happen to more than just myself.

I'd like to thank all the people who positively contributed to this thread so far!

NO WORRIES MAN!!!!! we got your back....we got everyones back!!

 

[spudatm]

from personal experience Cycling is a far mor effective cure for smoking than any patch, gum, inhaler etc

 

[Coaster]

Very good thread. Sticky time? Would be great under training and nutrition.

I started "racing" (read as "finishing") last year doing the Otway O 100km event. I approached it thinking that training was going to be the tricky bit, but it was nutrition that was the thing I struggled with. Firstly I couldn't eat enough, I was always hungry, and then made mistakes about what to eat when during my training. There were times that I felt I was getting sick (that horrid worn down feeling) but would change things in my diet (luckily have a better half that knows about food) and I would pick straight back up.

I based most of my training and nutrition on posts in Farkin and once tweaked I think it worked a treat, so I'd recommend spending some time reading through the nutrition posts.

I'm going to try improving my times next time around so will wtch this with interest.

Cheers,

Coaster