Trump..... (The Sophistry Thread)
- Thread starter John U
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Not sure where my graph went regards labor stats, check it out here - https://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet?request_action=wh&graph_name=LN_cpsbref3
Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
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CPS
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics, Current Population Survey
Series Id: LNS14000000
Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Seas) Unemployment Rate
Labor force status: Unemployment rate
Type of data: Percent or rate
Age: 16 years and over
Download:
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
2008 5.0 4.9 5.1 5.0 5.4 5.6 5.8 6.1 6.1 6.5 6.8 7.3
2009 7.8 8.3 8.7 9.0 9.4 9.5 9.5 9.6 9.8 10.0 9.9 9.9
2010 9.8 9.8 9.9 9.9 9.6 9.4 9.4 9.5 9.5 9.4 9.8 9.3
2011 9.1 9.0 9.0 9.1 9.0 9.1 9.0 9.0 9.0 8.8 8.6 8.5
2012 8.3 8.3 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.1 7.8 7.8 7.7 7.9
2013 8.0 7.7 7.5 7.6 7.5 7.5 7.3 7.2 7.2 7.2 6.9 6.7
2014 6.6 6.7 6.7 6.3 6.3 6.1 6.2 6.2 5.9 5.7 5.8 5.6
2015 5.7 5.5 5.5 5.4 5.5 5.3 5.2 5.1 5.0 5.0 5.0 5.0
2016 4.9 4.9 5.0 5.0 4.7 4.9 4.9 4.9 5.0 4.9 4.6 4.7
2017 4.8 4.7 4.5 4.4 4.3 4.3 4.3 4.4 4.2 4.1 4.1 4.1
2018 4.1 4.1 4.1 3.9 3.8
For more information, see the latest
Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
SHARE ON:
CPS
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics, Current Population Survey
Series Id: LNS14000000
Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Seas) Unemployment Rate
Labor force status: Unemployment rate
Type of data: Percent or rate
Age: 16 years and over
Download:
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
2008 5.0 4.9 5.1 5.0 5.4 5.6 5.8 6.1 6.1 6.5 6.8 7.3
2009 7.8 8.3 8.7 9.0 9.4 9.5 9.5 9.6 9.8 10.0 9.9 9.9
2010 9.8 9.8 9.9 9.9 9.6 9.4 9.4 9.5 9.5 9.4 9.8 9.3
2011 9.1 9.0 9.0 9.1 9.0 9.1 9.0 9.0 9.0 8.8 8.6 8.5
2012 8.3 8.3 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.1 7.8 7.8 7.7 7.9
2013 8.0 7.7 7.5 7.6 7.5 7.5 7.3 7.2 7.2 7.2 6.9 6.7
2014 6.6 6.7 6.7 6.3 6.3 6.1 6.2 6.2 5.9 5.7 5.8 5.6
2015 5.7 5.5 5.5 5.4 5.5 5.3 5.2 5.1 5.0 5.0 5.0 5.0
2016 4.9 4.9 5.0 5.0 4.7 4.9 4.9 4.9 5.0 4.9 4.6 4.7
2017 4.8 4.7 4.5 4.4 4.3 4.3 4.3 4.4 4.2 4.1 4.1 4.1
2018 4.1 4.1 4.1 3.9 3.8
For more information, see the latest
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
To provide a simple answer @hazza6542 I'd say people are uninsured by a Trump presidency because of:
- Hypocrisy in what he says or tries to achieve.
- Populaism as his primary policy agenda.
- Nepotism in his processes.
- Fraudulent grand standing.
- Bullying behaviour.
Not to forget that he really does present himself as an arrogant fool who is truely disconnected from the realities of regular people. Sure being incredibly wealthy will probably do that to you, I'll likely never know for sure though.
Obama came into his presidency in very turbulent times, economically and socially. The USA had just completed 8 years of one of their worst presidencies, leaving them tied up in unending wars, committing acts of very questionable global justice in the name of revenge, and on the verge of economic melt down (with a few other factors helping that out). Through out his 2 terms he was regularly up against a hostile media, congress, and senate. By comparison to Trump he was able to lead in a mostly positive fashion, mostly leaving a legacy of integrity and inclusiveness. It makes for a difficult transition for the casual observers.
Lastly when even George Bush 2 is having a dig at you, you should have the sense to realise you're in trouble.
- Hypocrisy in what he says or tries to achieve.
- Populaism as his primary policy agenda.
- Nepotism in his processes.
- Fraudulent grand standing.
- Bullying behaviour.
Not to forget that he really does present himself as an arrogant fool who is truely disconnected from the realities of regular people. Sure being incredibly wealthy will probably do that to you, I'll likely never know for sure though.
Obama came into his presidency in very turbulent times, economically and socially. The USA had just completed 8 years of one of their worst presidencies, leaving them tied up in unending wars, committing acts of very questionable global justice in the name of revenge, and on the verge of economic melt down (with a few other factors helping that out). Through out his 2 terms he was regularly up against a hostile media, congress, and senate. By comparison to Trump he was able to lead in a mostly positive fashion, mostly leaving a legacy of integrity and inclusiveness. It makes for a difficult transition for the casual observers.
Lastly when even George Bush 2 is having a dig at you, you should have the sense to realise you're in trouble.
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
The tarriffs are working...from today's Sydney Morning Herald, but maybe #fakenews.
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Binaural
Eats Squid
Also, the Trump administration has almost unbelievable levels of tolerated corruption. Just about every single one of his cabinet member and advisers has serious ethical or conflict of interest issues that would get them deep-sixed by most prior administrations. If he's draining the swamp, it's because he didn't find enough room for even worse creatures.
hazza6542
Eats Squid
Doing this on a phone isn't the easiest, so later tonight I'll dive in properly.You need to look at econ figures in context, the low rates of unemployment are not Trump's doing, they've been coming down since long before he was elected:
The trade deals he is making are fantastic? Can you name some? I'm not aware of any trade deals the US has signed since he came to the presidency, he's instead been ending them. The TPP was not just about trade, it was about trying to retain open trade in the Pacific as China is looking to do otherwise. He's also putting NAFTA under the hammer and he's threatened other allies and raised tariffs (justifiably or not). So I'm not sure what trade deals you're seeing him do.
Regards North Korea, he hasn't done anything that other Presidents haven't done - other than sitting across the table from Kim (and praising some one who executes and imprisons children). Clinton tried to engage and failed, Bush tried to engage and failed. We've been here before numerous times and Trump hasn't actually achieved anything yet. Not to say that he won't but you need to see this in context, this has all be done before and nothing has yet shifted from the same old same old.
That's great that current statistics started before Trump, things are looking up. But he's continuing these trends, keeping them going. So where's he made mistakes? He's continuing the trend set by the people everyone loves and that makes him the bad guy, or someone who's not achieving anything. Everyone set the bar so high apparently, and he's matching it. Why the hate? It's just silly.
Keep in mind I'm still a young fella who's experience in politics consists of knowing Hawke likes beer and women. Trade. OK, maybe not trade deals, but I'm talking vaguely about tarrifs and other trade related stuff. Take Canada and steel, Toyota isn't going to keep manufacturing in Canada and will come back to the US. 25% tarrif on sending steel over to Canada then another 25% bringing the cars back, why would they continue? Cheaper to manufacture in the US. Trade with China, the offers China are making to avoid these tarrifs are pretty yuge.
So he meets Kim, everyone says he's too aggressive to make peace, gunna start a war, then suddenly there's no war and everyone says he's being too nice. What do they want? So things haven't been entirely resolved yet, but first steps have been taken, and it's not good enough. You wanna talk about people that hurt children, look closely at who's being indicted and for what lately. Who are they all tied to? What are they for?
I just don't understand the hate. Why is everybody so up in arms about him? He still hasn't done anything bad, yet he's evil. NY Times did that dodgy photoshop cover, admit "yeah we done goofed on that one" and no one cares and goes on to believe everything they're fed. Fake news, and yet everyone just uses that term against Trump. It's literally fake news, as in the news is fake, not real, made up, false, lies. The people lap it up, makes them feel safe.
Sad.
Ya gotta admit, that was funny.
Ahhh the nepotism. Because that wasn't present in the Obama years? Think carefully over that one and look into it. You think there's corruption now, hoooooly. But, I'm not getting conspiracy theory in here, not what this is here for.
Anyone wanna talk about Jerusalem? Every president walks into their campaign and makes that promise, then nothing. It's expected, sadly. Trump says it, does it, then gets in the shit for doing it! Anyone heard from ISIS lately? Media doesn't cover anything.
I just don't understand. I get ya poodle, some of those qualities don't translate well, some just aren't good at all, and we're in more of a leftist society than ever which isn't helping. The guy comes off as the rich bigot we're all told he is, yet 20 years ago when he said the same things he said in his campaign, they loved him and wanted him. The media liked him, so the people liked him. And Colbert, Jesus how can anyone actually take that seriously. Find me the episode where he talks up how much he loves Trump. It's been taken down everywhere, funny that.
Also, the word bigot is the funniest thing that's happened in this whole presidency.
You have no idea the corruption that was already in there then. "We will stop him". Muh, Russia.
I thought less Harley's was a good thing?
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moorey
call me Mia
Wasn’t New York Times, @hazza6542 , it was Time. No one claimed it was an actual photograph.
He has flattering fake Time cover posters in his resorts, he clained that Time offered him ‘man of the year’ which he knocked back (they publicly pointed out this lie), and his actual Time covers are far from flattering.
Non of this relates to the nepotism and corruption of his presidency, but it’s still indicative of his MO.
Behold, all his time covers, just coz. He boasts about his covers, but not a lot to boast about.
He has flattering fake Time cover posters in his resorts, he clained that Time offered him ‘man of the year’ which he knocked back (they publicly pointed out this lie), and his actual Time covers are far from flattering.
Non of this relates to the nepotism and corruption of his presidency, but it’s still indicative of his MO.
Behold, all his time covers, just coz. He boasts about his covers, but not a lot to boast about.
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What has he done wrong?
Dog whistle racism, supporting the KKK, putting kids in cages, ending TPP, undermining the alliance structure when it suits Russia and China the most, nepotism, corruption, etc etc
I don’t hate what he does just because he does it. I think there is potential for progress in Korea and I know that you can’t just have open borders, etc. but I’m not going to be blind to his faults (like putting kids in cages to blackmail the Dems to fund a border wall. That’s very cynical politics similar to what Australia does with asylum seekers) and I also understand that it takes time for mistakes to filter through the system. I believe a few years will show us that his approach to issues like trade, NATO, Russia, etc were badly developed.
Dog whistle racism, supporting the KKK, putting kids in cages, ending TPP, undermining the alliance structure when it suits Russia and China the most, nepotism, corruption, etc etc
I don’t hate what he does just because he does it. I think there is potential for progress in Korea and I know that you can’t just have open borders, etc. but I’m not going to be blind to his faults (like putting kids in cages to blackmail the Dems to fund a border wall. That’s very cynical politics similar to what Australia does with asylum seekers) and I also understand that it takes time for mistakes to filter through the system. I believe a few years will show us that his approach to issues like trade, NATO, Russia, etc were badly developed.
Oh yes, walking away from the JCPOA, not signing the G7 communique, allowing Russia to intervene in the election and defending them afterwards out of fear that it would undermine his victory. Cheapening the office with childish twitter squabbles and arguing over the size of inauguration crowds, undermining the constitution by saying that illegal immigrants shouldn’t be dealt with under the law but by martial practices, undermining the electoral system by claiming that if he lost the election was rigged but if he won it was valid (ignoring what Russia did).
I’m sure there will be more to add soon.
I’m sure there will be more to add soon.
moorey
call me Mia
Please do. Saves me ineloquently trying to do so.
Binaural
Eats Squid
OK, I'll bite since I am dodging project costings.
Think about what you'r trying to say about how Trump is judged. Don't you have higher expectations for, say, Malcolm Turnbull vs some guy who entertains you on the TV? Who cares what Colbert thought about Trump when he was just another dickhead on reality TV.
He's not at all, actually. He is pursuing very different policies and pushing very different economic legislation to Obama. Economic changes take a long time to take effect, good or bad. But they do have an immediate impact on fairness, as the changes so far have been to give loads of money to the rich and deprive tens of millions of people of health care. The US is a deeply unequal society and Trump is making it far worse.
You need to pay more attention to this stuff. Tariffs are universally hated by economists as they are simply taxes on disfavoured products or countries, making these more expensive and difficult at the expense of the people in your economy who need those goods. And then the countries that you're trading with retaliate by putting tariffs on your goods in turn. So you buy less from them, and they buy less from you, exporters in both markets lose business and pay more to the government for no benefit. China is making no offers, and has instead imposed massive tariffs in return. It's voodoo economics.
Things aren't "not entirely resolved", they are no different. Kim just promised what he and his father and grandfather have promised before. The risk of war is no more or less than before. I have no idea what you're talking about in the second half of this paragraph, are you talking about the 2000 children separated at the border by the administration and for whom they don't have a plan to reunite with their parents?
He has literally admitted on twitter that fake news is just how he describes news he doesn't like. Trump is the least honest president for whom records exist. He lies out of habit, on easily disprovable topics, and because he's not held to account by his party whatsoever.
I do have an idea of the corruption, actually, you should look this stuff up before trying to play the "they're all the same" game. Love or hate him, the only real scandals of the Obama presidency were small stuff and have yielded no indictments. Don't let conspiracy theories like Benghazi (zero indictments, 7 congressional inquiries) mislead you on this one. Pay attention to convictions, not partisan shit talking.
The reason they have all backed away is because it was a dumb promise that gained nothing but a bunch of dead protesters and further ill-will. ISIS were in a corner well before Trump was in the picture, courtesy of Obama. If your media isn't covering this, change your media.
The society we're discussing has Republican majorities in the white house, both houses of congress and the supreme court, covering every major organ of government. The fact is that they are more of a right-wing political culture than ever, and this is not in debate anywhere. The democrats, the relatively left-wing party, are somewhat to the right of our Liberal party. The problem here is that he is pretty much as he is reported to be, which is to say petulant, childish, vengeful, lazy and ill-informed. He's doing one of the toughest jobs in the world, being likeable as an entertainer isn't one of the core skills.
Think about what you'r trying to say about how Trump is judged. Don't you have higher expectations for, say, Malcolm Turnbull vs some guy who entertains you on the TV? Who cares what Colbert thought about Trump when he was just another dickhead on reality TV.
Seriously, your post was nothing more than one long stream of excuse-making for the very real flaws of the Trump administration. The really sad thing is that we can't even really have a conversation until you acknowledge that the "MSM" actually does report reasonably accurately on what this administration does. We can argue about bias, but "fake news" is just sticking your head in the ground and hoping for the best.
What Binaural says in Korea is 100% accurate. I will say that we are further from war than we were in November but that is a false comparison. We are no further from war than we have been on average since 1953. Strategically speaking, not a single thing has changed except that US allies trust the US less.
Think about that, US relations with Russia and North Korea (neither of who’s behaviors are changing for the better) are improving while relations with Canada, Australia, France, the UK and traditional allies are worsening.
You think that’s a good direction for the world?
Think about that, US relations with Russia and North Korea (neither of who’s behaviors are changing for the better) are improving while relations with Canada, Australia, France, the UK and traditional allies are worsening.
You think that’s a good direction for the world?
safreek
*******
hifiandmtb
Sphincter beanie
At Hazza’s comment on Colbert, I believe it’s important that these late night hosts are able to disseminate the day’s happenings in a way that cuts through the political spin (and Trump’s hypermania).
Seth sums it up well:
Seth sums it up well:
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
The phone is where it's at man. Who even computers anymore?hazza6542post: 3190561 said:
From the top...
Nepotism like the roles his adult children now hold. Do you really think any of them are actually given those positions of influence on any form or merit?
Jerusalem...his move there has set back peace talks in an already volatile shit storm a long way. He has effectively said "fuck you" to the Palestinians. This is a huge reversal of the efforts of his predecessors. How could he possibly get both parties to camp David now with an expectation of a fair and just outcome?
He isn't continuing anyone's policies...he is undoing them, especially Obama's. He is undoing free market economics along the way. Insert long rambling about the economic reality vs economic policy relationship. Th current situation there is yr he result of the last 8 years of ground work. To make a home comparison, do you think that Kevin07 was able to cause the gfc to kick off here in 2008 after only a year or so in government? That took about 10 years of fucking up a resources boom to achieve...
We are less left than any time I've been alive. Like really less left, I personally see the Labor party as centre right and the libs/nuts are a long way out from there! Then the Americans...well Malcolm is going to need a telescope to look over the horizon. But the left/right wing is played out and a new paradigm is settling in.
There won't be less Harleys, just less made in America. So his policy to build American jobs has direct impact - specifically less jobs at an American icon brand.
And he has always been unpopular and a bit of a joke. I can't think of a time where people have lauded him as a great man.
Just happened to be finishing reading this piece and found part of the conclusion pretty relevant to this discussion:
No one denies that in its current form, the U.S. government is failing. Long before Trump, the political class that brought unending, unsuccessful wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya, as well as the financial crisis and Great Recession, had discredited itself. These disasters have done more to diminish confidence in liberal self government than Trump could do in his critics' wildest imaginings, short of a mistake that leads to a catastrophic war. The overriding challenge for American believers in democratic governance is thus nothing less than to reconstruct a working democracy at home.
No one denies that in its current form, the U.S. government is failing. Long before Trump, the political class that brought unending, unsuccessful wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya, as well as the financial crisis and Great Recession, had discredited itself. These disasters have done more to diminish confidence in liberal self government than Trump could do in his critics' wildest imaginings, short of a mistake that leads to a catastrophic war. The overriding challenge for American believers in democratic governance is thus nothing less than to reconstruct a working democracy at home.
Pics?