Trump..... (The Sophistry Thread)
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moorey
call me Mia
I mightn’t make my ‘Trump gone’ June 30 prediction, but it coming along quicker now, by the looks.
The guy in the podcast, Zack Cooper is a pretty switched on guy and has some pretty good thoughts about what Trump is doing to the US alliance system, including Australia - https://www.policyforum.net/national-security-podcast-summitry-strategy/
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I also see the potential for a positive here as well. Firstly, I don't see everything Trump does as bad, just because it's him that does it. I'm not overly confident about the talks with the DPRK but I'd prefer to be where we are now than were we were last year and I don't think that it's impossible that he can pull something off (again, I'm not confident but I'm not going to rule it out either).
Where I think there is potential for real gain is that Trump isn't the problem, the status quo is the problem. Politics is dishonest and urepresentative of the people it governs - not just in the US but here, the UK, etc. If Trump can rattle the fuck out of the apple cart without completely tipping it over that could be a really positive outcome. Hanson, Lamby, Palmer and these such folk get traction because they are authentic. Many people don't have the time nor the inclination to properly understand the economy, immigration, national security, energy policy, etc. But they do know what it feels like to be patronised and played for fools. So when some one like Hanson comes along people are rellieved by a straight talker - some one who says how it really is (according to them). So they get traction and that's what happened to a large degree with Trump. Hilary represented the establishment and everything that was bad about politcs and people voted in a salesman, a grandstander, a narcist conman.
So hopefully Trump won't screw things up too badly, maybe he'll actually do some good things. But I'd really like to see the status quo of politics shift and respond to the rise of popilism by some more middle of the road folk (Ricky Muir didn't seem too bad from what I saw of him, which wasn't much) that actually have the national interest at heart rather than political ambition.
Worst outcome would be to have Trump fail and some one even more extreme come in behind him. That truly concerns me.
Where I think there is potential for real gain is that Trump isn't the problem, the status quo is the problem. Politics is dishonest and urepresentative of the people it governs - not just in the US but here, the UK, etc. If Trump can rattle the fuck out of the apple cart without completely tipping it over that could be a really positive outcome. Hanson, Lamby, Palmer and these such folk get traction because they are authentic. Many people don't have the time nor the inclination to properly understand the economy, immigration, national security, energy policy, etc. But they do know what it feels like to be patronised and played for fools. So when some one like Hanson comes along people are rellieved by a straight talker - some one who says how it really is (according to them). So they get traction and that's what happened to a large degree with Trump. Hilary represented the establishment and everything that was bad about politcs and people voted in a salesman, a grandstander, a narcist conman.
So hopefully Trump won't screw things up too badly, maybe he'll actually do some good things. But I'd really like to see the status quo of politics shift and respond to the rise of popilism by some more middle of the road folk (Ricky Muir didn't seem too bad from what I saw of him, which wasn't much) that actually have the national interest at heart rather than political ambition.
Worst outcome would be to have Trump fail and some one even more extreme come in behind him. That truly concerns me.
Binaural
Eats Squid
It appears that the most likely outcome of the Mueller investigation will be a report submitted to the attorney general (the department of justice in the US has a long-standing policy that you can't indict the president). So there's also no pathway where Trump can be pressured by the prospect of criminal charges into resigning either. This is a big reason you see his surrogates like Guiliani attacking the investigation on spurious legal grounds, in order to try and get an advantage in the court of public opinion - he knows that Congress is going to be really reluctant to impeach for anything less than serious personal criminality.
Any system of representative democracy is subject to this sort of regulatory capture by interest groups rather than reflecting the general will of the people. The US is especially bad at this courtesy of weak regulation of political spending, granting free speech rights to businesses, and a general ossification of the legislative process. Trump's kakistocracy has just made these weaknesses glaringly obvious, as the legislators are completely unresponsive to the zeitgeist.
steve jobs' pancreas
Eats Squid
Looks like he has a trade war on his hands now the EU is giving him the the big FU
hifiandmtb
Sphincter beanie
Epic:
moorey
call me Mia
Doesn’t matter how badly Trump fucks over American businesses and workers. He will blame Obama and other countries, and his base will buy it.
Had a heated discussion with my FIL where I refuted every claim he made about how honest, non racist and good for the American worker Trump is.
His comeback: “Well, what about Hillary?”
Had a heated discussion with my FIL where I refuted every claim he made about how honest, non racist and good for the American worker Trump is.
His comeback: “Well, what about Hillary?”
What about Hillary? Eh?
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
Surely you mean Crooked Hillary?
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hazza6542
Eats Squid
Well, I said I'd jump in here at some point. I've obviously missed a lot in this thread, but I don't understand the Trump hate.
What gets everyone so mad about him? MSM feeds so much negative and nobody goes out to see the good. He's achieved so much more than most presidents, he's only pointing the country in a good direction and the 'swamp' really is being drained.
Even just the recent stuff, families staying together, Detroit, even Volvo is manufacturing in the US now. Trade deals he's making are fantastic, looking after America first. More importantly the amount of sex trafficking arrests that have happened under him are outstanding. Remember he made such a big deal about this missing children? Go look up how many kids have been saved. All the shit he gets for the strikes he's made, yet Barry didn't get anything. First time in recorded US history, dept of Labor announces more job openings than job seekers. Fucking NK?! Muhhh, it's been done before and nothing changed! Please. 200 bodies returned to US and not a news story in sight. Rigged media? Nahhh.
I just don't understand why everyone is so fearful of the big bad Trump causing a war. Stop reading the mainstream news, they've been caught out so many times as fake and everyone just keeps following. Telling you all now, he won't be impeached, he's doing too well.
I'm expecting to get ripped a new one here, but that's just my quick opinion on him. Not here for an argument, healthy discussion sure.
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What gets everyone so mad about him? MSM feeds so much negative and nobody goes out to see the good. He's achieved so much more than most presidents, he's only pointing the country in a good direction and the 'swamp' really is being drained.
Even just the recent stuff, families staying together, Detroit, even Volvo is manufacturing in the US now. Trade deals he's making are fantastic, looking after America first. More importantly the amount of sex trafficking arrests that have happened under him are outstanding. Remember he made such a big deal about this missing children? Go look up how many kids have been saved. All the shit he gets for the strikes he's made, yet Barry didn't get anything. First time in recorded US history, dept of Labor announces more job openings than job seekers. Fucking NK?! Muhhh, it's been done before and nothing changed! Please. 200 bodies returned to US and not a news story in sight. Rigged media? Nahhh.
I just don't understand why everyone is so fearful of the big bad Trump causing a war. Stop reading the mainstream news, they've been caught out so many times as fake and everyone just keeps following. Telling you all now, he won't be impeached, he's doing too well.
I'm expecting to get ripped a new one here, but that's just my quick opinion on him. Not here for an argument, healthy discussion sure.
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hazza6542
Eats Squid
Don't worry, her time is already up. Laptop was the end of her.
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You need to look at econ figures in context, the low rates of unemployment are not Trump's doing, they've been coming down since long before he was elected:
The trade deals he is making are fantastic? Can you name some? I'm not aware of any trade deals the US has signed since he came to the presidency, he's instead been ending them. The TPP was not just about trade, it was about trying to retain open trade in the Pacific as China is looking to do otherwise. He's also putting NAFTA under the hammer and he's threatened other allies and raised tariffs (justifiably or not). So I'm not sure what trade deals you're seeing him do.
Regards North Korea, he hasn't done anything that other Presidents haven't done - other than sitting across the table from Kim (and praising some one who executes and imprisons children). Clinton tried to engage and failed, Bush tried to engage and failed. We've been here before numerous times and Trump hasn't actually achieved anything yet. Not to say that he won't but you need to see this in context, this has all be done before and nothing has yet shifted from the same old same old.