UHF Radios for Mountain Bike Club Use

Minlak

custom titis
I have been tasked with finding suitable communication between marshals for our club race days and general use.
The area we operate in is State Forest and to quote the QLD Govt "With rugged hills of open eucalypt woodland, this park is an adventurer’s retreat. You can spotlight for possums and gliders at night and go mountain biking or bird watching during the day." Throw in the mix of ironbark and usual scrub trees and the fact the area we operate in is more hills than open woodland we are faced with some communication problems. Mobile phones are not reliable in this location and the spot I was marshal had no communication at all. This is not the situation we want to protect our riders.

For the last event we used handheld UHF's that were of a low power and had practically no coverage between marshals. My research and previous knowledge suggests we should go to 5w Handheld units but range is still a line of sight issue. The bandwidth will not go through hills it will go around or over and then it still has leaves, trees and sap to contend with all great range reducing materials.

The one thing we don't want to do is buy 5w Units and find they are no better. These units are going to cost us around the $200 mark each so that will be maybe $1000 wasted if we don't have success.

I have not done my pricing research yet as first I need to know what to buy before I can price it.

How you can help
Does anyone have a better idea than UHF?
Has anyone used 5w UHF in this type of terrain?
What are other clubs using on races?
General information on what you think I should consider?

I am aware of some mobile phone apps that are meant to turn your mobile handset into a "Walkie Talkie" most handsets have a maximum 2w output and usually less so I can't see this addressing the range issues we have.

There also appears to be no repeaters for the UHF in this region that we could reliably hit if we can't even hit the next handset 1KM away in the forest.
 

pistonbroke

Eats Squid
5 watt radios will be your best bet. I was involved with a dirt bike club that ran events over long distances in the Victorian High Country.
5 watt radios will give you some penetration to get over the hills. But it's still best if you stick your marshals on high ground.
We would run check points with 5 watt radios and a base station in a 4wd with a 25 watt radio with a bad ass aerial. . Not all marshals could talk to each other but they could always talk to someone. Everyone could hear the 25 watt radio.
But we were probably working over 30km as the crow flies.
You should be able to talk over 2 or 3 km in the hills as long as you don't stick all your marshals in gullies.
We found sat phones expensive, hard to use and unreliable.
 

silentbutdeadly

has some good things to say
Nothing wrong with going full tilt 5w but you could also consider a VHF handheld as the lower transmission frequencies have a bit more 'punch'...the one I was thinking of was the GME BX710 which is one of their commercial range.

Otherwise there is the GME TX6150 which is their 5w UHF enthusiast handset. Both are not shit. Not cheap but not shit.

I suspect that your best bet would be to actually hire some units for an event and see what works. See if you can get a sponsorship deal. You should also get some useful advice from them as part of the set-up.
http://www.trhirecom.com.au/index.html
http://amr.net.au/
etc
etc
etc
 

The Duckmeister

Has a juicy midrange
VHF still has the line of sight limitation, but a combination of its different wavelength plus careful marshal positioning as suggested by pistonbroke should see pretty reliable coverage.
 

24alpha

mtbpicsonline.com
I suspect that your best bet would be to actually hire some units for an event and see what works.
This makes a great deal of sense. And I can't fathom how you expect to get away with only 5 handsets at an event. The VDHS uses approximately 20 handsets for a weekend.
 

fridgie

Likes Dirt
We've used 5w Icom ic41-s handholds out on the tracks 4wding, able to talk to each other about 4km away as crow flies throughout city view 4wd Park in Beaudesert which is pretty hilly/thick trees etc and we're very happy with their capabilities.

What about proper uhf/antenna set up running of a 12v battery?

Cable tie antenna in tree etc for better range. Probably work out a similar cost, I have a spare 6db antenna you're welcome too (only replaced for stronger spring base on my 4wd.)
 

Minlak

custom titis
Thinking about these http://www.dicksmith.com.au/radios-scanners/uniden-uh076sx-nb-uhf-cb-1pk-dsau-d1899?CAWELAID=882806770&kw={keyword}&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CPjzvr_Z470CFdN8vQodFnUAxw

The Uniden UH076SX-NB UHF CB

I thought about GME but some of the latest reviews have questionable reliabilty but then it is the net what can you trust )
 

pistonbroke

Eats Squid
This makes a great deal of sense. And I can't fathom how you expect to get away with only 5 handsets at an event. The VDHS uses approximately 20 handsets for a weekend.
I did a 24 hour race with exactly zero comms on course. Madness.
 

mtb101

Likes Bikes and Dirt
you'd be better off contacting a cd radio type boffin club and getting them to do your communications, this is what one promotor has done over the years. they love it.
 

Minlak

custom titis
This makes a great deal of sense. And I can't fathom how you expect to get away with only 5 handsets at an event. The VDHS uses approximately 20 handsets for a weekend.
We already have some UHF's that are just not powerful enough. These extra units will be used to fill gaps and allow relaying of messages if needed. These are also club events and usually cover laps of an around 6Km course atm. We are only a newish club with recent state forest approval and are not running full on interclub national events.
 

fundermental

Likes Bikes
If you look at VHF's you will need a license. You can rent VHF's from most major communications mobs, they will have the licenses already but as for your own radio on there you will then need a license.

Ideally, UHF is great if you don't have to get over many hills and the like. Most decent UHF's will get anywhere up to 5km Line Of Sight (LOS) but this is also affected by hilly terrain. A repeater placed on a nearby hill would be the ideal situation, but once again a repeater requires a license, even if it is on UHF CB. You might get away with 5w UHF CB's, but if this could be used in an emergency situation, ie rider down, crash, injury type situation you will want it to be reliable. No point having a fancy system if it doesn't work when you need it to.

If you contact your local amateur radio club, you may be able to task them to do the comms for you. They love to talk on the radio and will have all the needed gear, maybe even a repeater. Second choice, some decent 5w UHF handhelds. In this case, at the least you probably should look at something that another poster suggested, having a relay station somewhere there to pass on messages as needed.
 

Minlak

custom titis
If you look at VHF's you will need a license. You can rent VHF's from most major communications mobs, they will have the licenses already but as for your own radio on there you will then need a license.

Ideally, UHF is great if you don't have to get over many hills and the like. Most decent UHF's will get anywhere up to 5km Line Of Sight (LOS) but this is also affected by hilly terrain. A repeater placed on a nearby hill would be the ideal situation, but once again a repeater requires a license, even if it is on UHF CB. You might get away with 5w UHF CB's, but if this could be used in an emergency situation, ie rider down, crash, injury type situation you will want it to be reliable. No point having a fancy system if it doesn't work when you need it to.

If you contact your local amateur radio club, you may be able to task them to do the comms for you. They love to talk on the radio and will have all the needed gear, maybe even a repeater. Second choice, some decent 5w UHF handhelds. In this case, at the least you probably should look at something that another poster suggested, having a relay station somewhere there to pass on messages as needed.
Tasking is a great idea but would ideally like to be self sufficient. Idea of thought talking to club president today is maybe buy 2 see how they go and intersperse them with the older ones. So like suggested above and by several people set up a relay system. It's just gunna have to be trial and error to some degree.

Thanks all for the constructiveness ;)
 

T-Rex

Template denier
At Ourimbah we have all sorts of hassles with radios and have tried a few different things over the years.

UHF, which is the "free" frequency, is your basic CB radio, for which you don't need a licence. Max output, again without a licence, is 5w, which is an off the shelf purchase. These units are basically line of sight, which is a problem at Ourimbah, but we got one of our sponsors, Gencom, to make us a repeater out of two car mounted CB units, powered by a 12v car battery. No licence required, as it is within the "free" frequency range. Worked a treat until some fucker stole it at a club race.

One problem with CBs is you pick up other traffic, but we got Gencom to set our radios up on an infrequently used frequency, which sorted this out.
 

dcrofty

Eats Squid
The Uniden UH076SX-NB UHF CB
I've got one of these that I use for work. Works well and the metal body is good as its pretty robust. Thats a pretty good price too, I paid a bit more than that.

If you do end up buying multiples check out the tradie pack for those radios, you get a nice carry case and some extra batteries and stuff.
 

thecat

NSWMTB, Central Tableland MBC
Depends on your money.

Rockytrail use some cool little units with gps that show the callers location which are handy

We've a mix of 2w and 5w units + a car unit hook built into a box with extendable antenna

With T-rex's picking up other traffic issue most untis now come out with CTCSS which eans you can use a frequency but you only hear other people set on the same ctcss code as you. Never had an issue with external traffic using this system

Terrain and forest type also play a part
Never had too much trouble getting reception for our DH, though some gullys needed a relay to get the message to the bottom. But was hit and miss with xc when we where running in pine forest. Pine trees are like natures shield of silence/communication scrabbler
 
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fundermental

Likes Bikes
These units are basically line of sight, which is a problem at Ourimbah, but we got one of our sponsors, Gencom, to make us a repeater out of two car mounted CB units, powered by a 12v car battery. No licence required, as it is within the "free" frequency range.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but the repeater must be licensed as it isn't covered by the class licence (which covers the handhelds and mobiles)

CBRS repeaters
A repeater is a station established at a fixed location that receives radio signals from one CB station and automatically retransmits the signal to another station using the corresponding output channel. UHF CBRS repeaters can be found in all states and enable the range of vehicle to vehicle communications to be significantly increased.

CB repeaters are not authorised under the CBRS class licence. The repeater stations are usually located at hilltop radiocommunication sites and require specific frequency assignments and the issue of an individual apparatus licence.

Repeater channels
Channels 1 to 8 and 41 to 48 are designated as repeater output channels, with channels 31 to 38 and 71 to 78 the corresponding designated repeater input channels.

A repeater that transmits on channel 1 will always receive on channel 31. When operated in duplex/repeater mode the CB radio automatically selects the corresponding transmit/receive frequencies.

These designated repeater channels may be used for single frequency communications provided they are not used in the locality of repeaters.

Channels 5 and 35 are dedicated for emergency communications.

Please note: this document is intended as a guide only and should not be relied on as legal advice or regarded as a substitute for legal advice in individual cases.

http://www.acma.gov.au/Citizen/Cons...io/citizen-band-radio-service-cbrs-fact-sheet
In saying that, you got ti be caught to be illegal I guess!
 

J B

Squid
Local club had a problems with UHF out of a gully back to the top. They solved this by using Cb radios with old base antennas at both top and bottom of the track.
 

MelbRod

Likes Dirt
FDP radios

You might like to check out FDP radios (www.fdp.com.au). I'm a member of AlpineSAR in Victoria, and we have recently adopted these. (Members buy them personally, so no freebies here!)

We have found the Uniden 5W batteries to be truly crap, and the performance underwhelming. So far the FDPs look good. Much more robust. The option to add a cheap higher gain antenna to the handheld unit for better distance. We generally operate in similar terrain, so are looking for similar capabilities. A nice trick is to also purchase a speaker mike. This allows you to hoist the radio up a tree or on a pole with the mike dangling down to increase range. Things to be wary of in use.....water will block transmissions. So if the forest is really wet or snowy, range is decreased. If the radio is mounted o your body or chest, and you are standing between the radio and the target radio, this will affect transmissions. Just turn so the radio is not blocked, and your range will increase. The same if you loft it up a tree. Aerials need to point up, not sideways for maximum range. Holding the radio sideways looks so much cooler though!!!

FDP is in Brisbane, I think, so maybe see if you can trial a couple of radios for an event, or hire to buy. Even with a radio, extra antenna and speaker mike, you are only at $226, and they may go slightly better for a NFP for five units. Also check out their parrot unit. Looks pretty good for a cheap, legal repeater.

PM me if you need more info.

Cheers, Rod
 
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