Understanding what makes a downhill bike

[trublusk8er]

Have recently got into downhill but have realised that my norco Six one isnt really going to cut it.

Have been reading as much as i can trying to decide what bike would suit me. Having trouble understanding what makes a good downhill bike.
I should start by saying that i never plan on doing huge drops or big jumps. At the moment i can do drops of around 1m and doubles around 2m long. Mainly ride the easy tracks in dwelingup in WA

I would really like a light downhill bike that is easy to handle and corner and dont think i need 8-9inchs of travel. From my reasearch i have come across alot of bike that seem to fit this catogory but they all seem to be labbeled free ride.
And most reveiws say that when pointed downhill they dont excell.
Does this all have do with the head angle?

Any help understanding all the technicall side/geometry would greatly be appreciated

 

[Chuckie]

if you feel you dont need 8 inches, then what do you feel is wrong with the SIX?

Freeride bikes usually have a steeper (66-67 degree) head angle than a dedicated DH bike (64-65 degrees) but unless you are riding super steep tracks or racing DH then a freeride bike should be ok for most. DH bikes are usually a bit longer (stablility) and have a lower Bottom bracket (aids cornering)

I thought the SIX was classified as a FR/ AM bike, no? should be fine for most

Maybe Giant Faith, Scott Voltage FR etc

just my 0.02

 

[3viltoast3r]

Just buy a downhill bike, doesnt matter if you huck 40ft gaps or not. Dh bike have slack angles which makes descending a breeze (read: fast & comfortable) whilst cornering isnt really a problem. Sure some bikes corner 'better' than others, but more would come down to ~95% riders skills and some part suspension.

 

[driftking]

The differance is the geometry.
By the sounds of it you dont need a 8inch travel bike, although you cannot completely change the geometry of a freeride bike to fit DH you can get a frame that is compatible with the canecreek angle head set this will allow you to slacken the headangle by 0.5-1.5 degrees so you should be able to get your head angle out to 65.5-64.5.
If you run double crowns where you place the fork in the crowns also has a effect on the HA so you can get a bit more slack out of that too.
you can do alot through components.
also freebikes tend to have bigger gearing range so throw on a chain guide or Dh crank. and later on a 11-23 cassette or whatever range you like.

Any big component upgrades like cranks is best to make when buying the bike as you get a trade back price or you can try to sell the old crank on your own.saves you some money.

IMO you should probably just buy a DH bike, people use them for redbull rampage etc so you can pretty much do any freeriding you want on it.. but I guess it does depend on how much travel you would like.

 

[Nerf Herder]

You need to make friends ... the more the betterer IMO ... preferably a large percentage of whom are bike whores and gear freaks .

I found this to be the best way to actually notice the difference between different makes, design philosophies and setup. Once you ride a rig and notice the differences, it makes it easier to see what the different nerd facts actually mean

So, aside from Component choice, and suspension setup (eg, brake lever throw, stack height, bar width) the things I notice are
i) how upright you are (HA & stack height)
ii) how fast the steering is (HA & Bar width)
iii) how stable it is at speed or through the rough (wheel base length with some differing characteristics between Top Tube and Chain Stay length ... I'm still trying to work out what different TTs actual do, but I think it relates to where you are positioned on the rig, which affects turning)
iv) how easy it is to turn around tight corners (the trade off to iii)
v) BB Height.
vi) suspension tuning makes a huge noticeable difference (but thats a different thread)

My new DH rig has very race oriented geo and BB ... and aside from the suspension, the thing really corners, and changes lines like lightning which is totally different to my canadian huck bike (Kona Stab Primo)

So lots to know or in my case feel

 

[SideFX]

Have recently got into downhill but have realised that my norco Six one isnt really going to cut it.

Have been reading as much as i can trying to decide what bike would suit me. Having trouble understanding what makes a good downhill bike.
I should start by saying that i never plan on doing huge drops or big jumps. At the moment i can do drops of around 1m and doubles around 2m long. Mainly ride the easy tracks in dwelingup in WA

I would really like a light downhill bike that is easy to handle and corner and dont think i need 8-9inchs of travel. From my reasearch i have come across alot of bike that seem to fit this catogory but they all seem to be labbeled free ride.
And most reveiws say that when pointed downhill they dont excell.
Does this all have do with the head angle?

Any help understanding all the technicall side/geometry would greatly be appreciated

Yes head angle and bottom bracket < length to > . How do you set your suspension on you bike at the moment ie sag ? forks and rear .

 

[THE Manik Man]

Have recently got into downhill but have realised that my norco Six one isnt really going to cut it.

Have been reading as much as i can trying to decide what bike would suit me. Having trouble understanding what makes a good downhill bike.
I should start by saying that i never plan on doing huge drops or big jumps. At the moment i can do drops of around 1m and doubles around 2m long. Mainly ride the easy tracks in dwelingup in WA

I would really like a light downhill bike that is easy to handle and corner and dont think i need 8-9inchs of travel. From my reasearch i have come across alot of bike that seem to fit this catogory but they all seem to be labbeled free ride.
And most reveiws say that when pointed downhill they dont excell.
Does this all have do with the head angle?

Any help understanding all the technicall side/geometry would greatly be appreciated

If you have only started to get into downhill then from experience i would say to stick with what you have for as long as you can. In this sport you will be surprised how easy to progress at a very quick rate, you say your not doing big drops but in six months you could be and you might be looking to change bikes again and it all costs money. You can save yourself alot of money by belting your norco six out until you figure out what bike will really suit you

cheers

 

[trublusk8er]

The air shock in the rear though gets a pounding through the rock gardens and i end up using all my travel and rattling the crap out of my hands.

Been look at a commecial supreme (mini downhill) but the 2011 glorys arnt that much heavier and the 01 is one special for $3200

People already say that in wa you dont really need a full 8 inches as the trails here arnt that steep.

What id love is a 7' bike with downhill geo.

 

[driftking]

The air shock in the rear though gets a pounding through the rock gardens and i end up using all my travel and rattling the crap out of my hands.

Been look at a commecial supreme (mini downhill) but the 2011 glorys arnt that much heavier and the 01 is one special for $3200

People already say that in wa you dont really need a full 8 inches as the trails here arnt that steep.

What id love is a 7' bike with downhill geo.

if your using all your travel up and is slowing compacting you need to play around with your settings so it doesnt compound as much and therefore wont bottom out.

alot of people talk about not needing that much travel and it may be the case but that doesnt mean you cant go as fast on a 8 inch bike.
there used to be a big thing that a V10 is too much travel for AUS terrain, however as we see there are top national riders who use V10, not to mention the worldcup where steve peat on a V10 came out on top on one of the most pedally tracks in AUS with other riders running short travel bikes so the bottom line is you can run a 8 inch or 10 inch bike and still win on a track that only needs 6inches. dont get caught up in that hype, just get a bike that you want and ride it hard.

 

[Rexy]

I'd say initially hang onto your six for a while and progress your skills, start coming to a few of the rides that are frequently held down in Dwellingup (have you been on www.hucktoflat.com or www.pdmbc.com, both WA downhill sites?). Try and ride a few different bikes and see what you want.

Big issues you could be having with the Norco:
- Airshock not being plush compared to a coil.
- Steep headangle making the bike too twitchy.
- Narrow bars also making the bike twitchy to steer.
- Short wheelbase making for an unbalanced bike at speed.

Maybe start looking at bikes such as the Morewood Kakulu, Transition TR250, Specialized SX Trail, Commencal Supereme etc.

However, you will find that most riders in WA do run a full eight inches, and it goes well. Definately dont discount a full on downhill bike, try and nick a ride on bikes like Glorys, Demos, Norco's etc to get a comparison.

Hope some of that helps and wasnt just jibberish.

 

[trublusk8er]

Thanks for all the help guys.

Rexy: im in rocko as well. Planing on heading out to dwelingup this weekend. Let us know when your out that way next. Got a dual cab ute for shuttles

 

[SideFX]

The air shock in the rear though gets a pounding through the rock gardens and i end up using all my travel and rattling the crap out of my hands.

Been look at a commecial supreme (mini downhill) but the 2011 glorys arnt that much heavier and the 01 is one special for $3200

People already say that in wa you dont really need a full 8 inches as the trails here arnt that steep.

What id love is a 7' bike with downhill geo.

Ill straight up and say , commencal crack dont buy one unless its new and your getting warranty . The 2010/2011 glory one is a great bike /spec for the coin Great out of the box , the rear shock and wheelset is the only thing that lets the bike down but not a major problem .
The problem with running a seven inch rear bike is the fork , most DH /all dh fork < dual crown > are 8 inch made for 8 inch or more travel bikes < since 05> . If you try to run a 8 inch fork on 7 inch specific frame you will either screw the frame or make the bottom bracket to high and that will effect the handling of the bike .
Have you looked at a AM bike a little more aggressive than what you have now and running some long travel single crown forks if you don`t want a DH bike ?
If i was you Id keep the 6 and get a DH ride , most of the DH/ race bike made in the last 4 year are more than capable of DH, race and free ride . Keep the 6 for great access and more ridding and then get a big bike to get loose .

 

[driftking]

The problem with running a seven inch rear bike is the fork , most DH /all dh fork < dual crown > are 8 inch made for 8 inch or more travel bikes < since 05> . If you try to run a 8 inch fork on 7 inch specific frame you will either screw the frame or make the bottom bracket to high and that will effect the handling of the bike .
.

If you do decide to go with a 7inch bike its best to throw on a 7inch dh fork like totems.

 

[nic1894]

just get the glory its light and pedals well comes with good spec cheap and will be fine for what you need it for,very comfortable ride. if money is no problem as stated earlier try a transition tr250 it seems to fit exactly with what your asking for put some solo air totems on there and you will be set... if that isn't good enough you definitely need 8 inches of travel. another thing people don't realize is the amount of sag your running on your shock changes how the bike rides a lot, if your not running the correct setting's on your shock of course its going to bottom out it will also change the geometry and therefor change how the bike rides, just make sure you visit you LBS and have the bike set up rite for YOU before you go out and buy a new unnecessary bike.

 

[kona_kona]

If you do decide to go with a 7inch bike its best to throw on a 7inch dh fork like totems.

You're going to struggle to find a DH bike with less than 8".

How big are you? To really not 'need' 8" you'd have to be pretty small and/or lightweight. 8" might seem like a lot but once you've got it all setup and plough through a really rough section you'll appreciate every inch of it.

But as said a million times, a DH bike's geo is slightly more tweaked than that of an AM or FR bike.

ie. You're positioned with more weight over the front. Bottom Brackets are lower (Sunday anyone?), top tubes and wheelbases are longer for stability at higher speeds. Frames are generally designed with a really central and really low centre of gravity.