NSW Unsanctioned Trail Work in the RNP

JBR

Likes Dirt
Hopefully this doesnt degenerate into the shitfight that the last one of these threads did, however it needs to be highlighted.

There has been a signficant amount of unsanctioned trail work conducted in the RNP of late. In particular, a rather large section of trail has been cut/diverted, it would seem by bikers, around a perceived problem section of trail. Im talking maybe 1-200m of trail or more.

Albeit done with the best intentions, its not on and it is unlikely that it would be seen that way by officials. It is unplanned, suspectly routed, relocated large amounts of native rock (BAD), and created a number of new issues and problem areas. Remember, this is a National Park.

Whilst unsanctioned also, a drain here or a bit of rock armouring there might go by largely un-noticed. But a large scale re-route is uncool. It took the actual trail builders many months and working in conjunction with NPWS to get the diversion approved on the north side creek descent.

Everyone who rides there will know where I mean, and anyone who has ridden there for an extended period will know how much this track has deteriated in recent months.

To whoever is doing this, or if you know who is doing this, please stop or tell them to stop, it doesnt work this way in this instance.

It would honestly be a good idea to go back and try to un do what has been done and leave the trail as it was, even though its a shit fight.

Im happy to discuss in more detail and please feel free to contact me. I can put you onto the team who work closely with the Rangers in the area on the regular track days, and other trail advocates at the local and state level.

Kind Regards

Justin
 

bikesarefun

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I'm all for illegal trail building. But I wish people would learn to do it discretely in areas where it doesn't impact on legitimate trails...
 

shore_2

Likes Dirt
Months for that tiny trail diversion. I could have built that in fifteen minutes. Npws are a joke. The reason the trail gets flogged out is because there are hardly any trails. Props to the illegal builders for actually making something happen.

I do know of another area near by where there help would be a little more appropriate though...
 

markb84

Likes Dirt
The months for the trail diversion weren't for the work itself but for the park to assess te environmental impact of the diversion. The work itself was carried out over a fairly short period of time and has helped avoid a section of fall line trail that was never going to be sustainable.

It's disappointing that people are obviously willing to do trail work in the park illegally but on the build day last weekend only 2 of us showed up. Imagine how much better the trails there would be if on the one day a month we get to maintain the trails we got a decent show.
 

nikmcc

Likes Dirt
Hopefully this doesnt degenerate into the shitfight that the last one of these threads did, however it needs to be highlighted.

There has been a signficant amount of unsanctioned trail work conducted in the RNP of late. In particular, a rather large section of trail has been cut/diverted, it would seem by bikers, around a perceived problem section of trail. Im talking maybe 1-200m of trail or more.

Albeit done with the best intentions, its not on and it is unlikely that it would be seen that way by officials. It is unplanned, suspectly routed, relocated large amounts of native rock (BAD), and created a number of new issues and problem areas. Remember, this is a National Park.

Whilst unsanctioned also, a drain here or a bit of rock armouring there might go by largely un-noticed. But a large scale re-route is uncool. It took the actual trail builders many months and working in conjunction with NPWS to get the diversion approved on the north side creek descent.

Everyone who rides there will know where I mean, and anyone who has ridden there for an extended period will know how much this track has deteriated in recent months.

To whoever is doing this, or if you know who is doing this, please stop or tell them to stop, it doesnt work this way in this instance.

It would honestly be a good idea to go back and try to un do what has been done and leave the trail as it was, even though its a shit fight.

Im happy to discuss in more detail and please feel free to contact me. I can put you onto the team who work closely with the Rangers in the area on the regular track days, and other trail advocates at the local and state level.

Kind Regards

Justin
Just for the record, this was not me.

I never do more than a few drainage channels and trimming overhanging branches on sneaky trails.

My previous thread that turned to shit (as expected) was about a different trail.



Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk 2
 

Halo1

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Months for that tiny trail diversion. I could have built that in fifteen minutes. Npws are a joke.
Unless you turn up to the next build day and show us what you can do in 15 mins then I will be forced to call BS..:heh:

Working with RNP can be frustrating but illegal trails will never work in the RNP. The best option is to volunteer your efforts on the build days and give your input into improving and expanding the current trail network.
 

justcruzin

Cannon Fodder
As a regular walker and cyclist within the RNP, I have been witnessing the NPWS organised trail building and maintenance going on close to Loftus oval for years, and participating when possible. It is great to see these trail maintenance days continuing to go ahead. Initially, the results of these maintenance days were very positive. The rock armoring and drainage along the singletracks on both sides of the tram line have been great. Recently however, the trails have deteriorated, making walking and riding some of the previously maintained sections difficult and not particularly enjoyable.
I have seen the unsanctioned trail diversions mentioned in this forum thread and assumed they had been approved by NPWS. The diversions, rock armoring and trail maintenance, seem to direct walkers and cyclists around or over the top of poorly draining sections of the trails, which were deep in water and mud. They make it easier and more enjoyable to negotiate the trails.
With very few singletracks in the area and an ever-increasing amount of use from walkers and cyclists, I think it is a positive thing to see trail users combining to keep the trails maintained continually and when required.
 
F*^k the national park. Get your asses out kentlyn and build out there. Plenty of good Ridin. More and more people starting to build out there.

Get into it
 

Wildchild426

Likes Bikes
I realise this is the RNP we are talking about and hence unsanctioned trail builiding is illegal and possibly destructive to the environment. However, I gotta say, the trails in question here (I'm sure I'm thinking of the same one under discussion here...) are awesome. The technical features on it are challenging, a hell of a lot of fun to ride and seem to feature rock bridging over all the fall lines. When I first came across these new diversions, I assumed it was the work of the NPAWS guys and the volunteers, as the detours were well constructed and seemed to bypass some of the worst mud sinks along the creek trail. If this is not the work of NPAWS, I have to say I am impressed, and I far prefer the new/alternate lines to the old trail. The drainage is quite poor on many sections of this creek trail, and from what I have seen of this new link, it is well built, rock armoured against washout and erosion and, most importantly, a lot of fun to ride.

I do not condone any illegal trail building, but I will say this: if NPAWS did orchestrate the building of this new diversion, I am fully impressed with it and hope they continue the good work along the trail. If it is the result of unsanctioned and illegal work, I sure hope NPAWS have a good look at the link and decide to leave it there, for in my opinion it is superior to the existing trail in terms of fun as well as sustainability. I also hope the NPAWS will then consider putting in a few more diversions like that around other notorios bog zones, especially with winter and the wet season approaching. After a heavy rain, there are numerous places along that creek run - which would have to be my favourite trail out there - that remain in a swamp-like condition for up to 2 weeks.
 

rotorub

Likes Dirt
Hmm all this talk has me curious. Last time I rode there was a few weeks ago. The diversions I saw (loftus side of the creek) were pointed out to me as the legal ones and I though they were done really well.

Could it be that some are mistaking legal work for illegal?

I think I am going to have to book a ride in the RNP to see all this work (legal and illegal) to see what all the fuss is about. Its hard to picture withou revisiting :frusty:
 

markb84

Likes Dirt
I realise this is the RNP we are talking about and hence unsanctioned trail builiding is illegal and possibly destructive to the environment. However, I gotta say, the trails in question here (I'm sure I'm thinking of the same one under discussion here...) are awesome. The technical features on it are challenging, a hell of a lot of fun to ride and seem to feature rock bridging over all the fall lines. When I first came across these new diversions, I assumed it was the work of the NPAWS guys and the volunteers, as the detours were well constructed and seemed to bypass some of the worst mud sinks along the creek trail. If this is not the work of NPAWS, I have to say I am impressed, and I far prefer the new/alternate lines to the old trail. The drainage is quite poor on many sections of this creek trail, and from what I have seen of this new link, it is well built, rock armoured against washout and erosion and, most importantly, a lot of fun to ride.

I do not condone any illegal trail building, but I will say this: if NPAWS did orchestrate the building of this new diversion, I am fully impressed with it and hope they continue the good work along the trail. If it is the result of unsanctioned and illegal work, I sure hope NPAWS have a good look at the link and decide to leave it there, for in my opinion it is superior to the existing trail in terms of fun as well as sustainability. I also hope the NPAWS will then consider putting in a few more diversions like that around other notorios bog zones, especially with winter and the wet season approaching. After a heavy rain, there are numerous places along that creek run - which would have to be my favourite trail out there - that remain in a swamp-like condition for up to 2 weeks.
Firstly, whilst I understand what you're saying about the quality of the work, yes there is some good rock work there and some of the trail features are well built, if the same number of hours were put into the existing section the diversion would not have been necessary.
There are still many sections of the trail that need simple work to get rid of standing water, as it runs parallel to a creek that will always be a bit of an issue unless its really well built.
The unsanctioned diversion on the illegal trail has had no consideration for environmental impact and instead of being a positive action in the eyes of the park is more likely to put the final nail in the coffin of that particular trail.
Whilst the work has been done reasonably well it does not flow at all well as the mos of the original trail does. I personally used to love this trail but have stopped riding it as it is getting really bad.


Next onto your point about the creek descent, Crofty and I spent half of Saturday working on the trail in the pouring rain and were able to make serious headway with the drainage on the north side.

Unfortunately as there were only two of us the key area that needs work at the creek itself could not be started as that's at least a four man job.
It would be great if we could get a decent number for the next build day so these issues can be sorted before winter hits properly and the trails become unrideable
 

Slowman

Likes Dirt
I know NPWS have their shortcomings (I've certainly lamented them in the past) but things are changing for the better. So for those that say "f*** them go ahead and build illegally" I just want you to think about what you are putting at risk. There are still forces within the NPWS that would like nothing better than to shut everything down and ban mountain biking completely. No one will be happy with that, so don't think you'll be getting slaps on the back. Don't think it can happen? Look at Menai. It's taken months of negotiations and trail work and it is still not open yet (not long). The point is, it is very easy to backwards a long way very quickly, while going forward can take months. So we can easily lose a lot more than we can gain from such ventures.

Personally, I think this thread should be deleted and any threads on the park. NPWS monitor these forums.
 

Steve Mowle

Likes Bikes
I have had a friend identify this forum thread to me.

There are some valid points of discussion (some not so well worded) for and against the many pieces of trail building, maintenance and general improvement going on within the Royal and Heathcote National Parks; some sanctioned and aided by NPSW; others obviously where large groups of cyclists have decided to do the work themselves.

Having put in many hours into getting the Mill Creek (Menai) MTB Trails rolling; as well as continued recent communication with representatives from NPWS regarding potential changes to the current ‘Plan of Management for Royal NP, Heathcote NP and Garawarra SCA’; and current ‘Cycling Management Plan’ (2002), I think we are missing the most important attribute that helps MTBers achieve the changes we are all looking for: we need to be working as a team! Not fighting against each other on Forums.

Along with many others, I would love to get more involved with the NPWS co-ordinated trail maintenance days. Saturday morning does not suit most. Many MTBers are working Saturday mornings; running small businesses; spending time with family, etc. Perhaps other days, or nights, may be considered.

Unsanctioned trail maintenance has been happening as long as people have been riding bikes in the bush. With an estimated increase of 1500 MTB rides within the Royal and Heathcote National Parks in the last 21 months, MTBers are struggling to cope with the limited amount trails, particularly singletrack, available. This extra load on the existing trails is having a huge effect not only on the wear and tear of the trails, but the increase in unsanctioned trail building, to create more trails and spread the load. NPWS are aware of this and are considering many options.

As previously pointed out in other threads, NPWS do monitor these forums. MTBers need to be working with each other, as well as with NPWS. It will not be the unsanctioned improvement of trails within National Parks that will lead to trail closures; it will be the perceived lack of communication and co-operation between NPWS and the MTB community.

Perhaps this particular forum thread has lead us to a point where we can begin to work together more successfully to achieve our common goal; to have more legitimate singletrack included within the current Royal and Heathcote National Parks Cycling Management Plan.
I am continuing to communicate with representatives from NPWS regarding the above mentioned documents, as well as the general Mountain Biking Trial period we are currently within. We could request a meeting with the concerned representatives to help keep things rolling, if riders are keen to donate their time.

Please leave your comments…
Steve Mowle
 

Wildchild426

Likes Bikes
I have had a friend identify this forum thread to me.

There are some valid points of discussion (some not so well worded) for and against the many pieces of trail building, maintenance and general improvement going on within the Royal and Heathcote National Parks; some sanctioned and aided by NPSW; others obviously where large groups of cyclists have decided to do the work themselves.

Having put in many hours into getting the Mill Creek (Menai) MTB Trails rolling; as well as continued recent communication with representatives from NPWS regarding potential changes to the current ‘Plan of Management for Royal NP, Heathcote NP and Garawarra SCA’; and current ‘Cycling Management Plan’ (2002), I think we are missing the most important attribute that helps MTBers achieve the changes we are all looking for: we need to be working as a team! Not fighting against each other on Forums.

Along with many others, I would love to get more involved with the NPWS co-ordinated trail maintenance days. Saturday morning does not suit most. Many MTBers are working Saturday mornings; running small businesses; spending time with family, etc. Perhaps other days, or nights, may be considered.

Unsanctioned trail maintenance has been happening as long as people have been riding bikes in the bush. With an estimated increase of 1500 MTB rides within the Royal and Heathcote National Parks in the last 21 months, MTBers are struggling to cope with the limited amount trails, particularly singletrack, available. This extra load on the existing trails is having a huge effect not only on the wear and tear of the trails, but the increase in unsanctioned trail building, to create more trails and spread the load. NPWS are aware of this and are considering many options.

As previously pointed out in other threads, NPWS do monitor these forums. MTBers need to be working with each other, as well as with NPWS. It will not be the unsanctioned improvement of trails within National Parks that will lead to trail closures; it will be the perceived lack of communication and co-operation between NPWS and the MTB community.

Perhaps this particular forum thread has lead us to a point where we can begin to work together more successfully to achieve our common goal; to have more legitimate singletrack included within the current Royal and Heathcote National Parks Cycling Management Plan.
I am continuing to communicate with representatives from NPWS regarding the above mentioned documents, as well as the general Mountain Biking Trial period we are currently within. We could request a meeting with the concerned representatives to help keep things rolling, if riders are keen to donate their time.

Please leave your comments…
Steve Mowle
I would just like to write my support of pretty much everything stated here. This is more or less exactly how I feel on this subject. As someone who is also involved with the new Menai project, I have put many mornings and hours into the building of this new MTB park (named Mill Creek MTB trails. I am as committed as any to the construction of sustainable and low environmentally impacting trail building. I celebrate the construction of any new trails made available to me, and would see the MTB community work together to achieve more legal trails opened to us as well as improvements to existing trails.

Concerning the contested and possibly illegal new diversions appearing in the RNP, my argument stands in favour of keeping them there now they are built. From what I have seen of these new diversions, they are plotted largely upon rock surfaces which is a benefit for 2 reasons: it eliminates erosion on the trail and also reduces any foiliage that has to be cleared. Perhaps this new link is not a 'flowy' piece of trail, but it has other appeals to riders in search of technical singeltrack. It requires skill. There are many sections of straight, fast, crank-burning trail already in existance out there in the RNP. I find it refreshing to have diversity of track available, requiring different riding style.

The section of trail now bypassed needs a lot of work to make it viable, especially with the dramatically increased volume of riders now using it. It will only continue to degrade, as it is obviously a fall line and concaved in a way that channels and catches water over a long stretch. I agree that it should receive equal attention in being restored for those that want a straighter, more flowy trail. However, it will not be a simple job from what I have seen. It will require extensive rock armouring and a drainage ditch running pretty much parallel to the trail for hundreds of metres. Perhaps this should be a focus for everyone reading and posting here; to band together and see this creek trail restored and maintained. As has been said more than once in this thread, the MTB community needs to rally together on this subject and not offer complaint. Only unity will see what we are truly after realised: more legal trails, more trail maintenance and more public support.
 

Cronar

Likes Dirt
Just got back from riding the trail refered to here. What an abomination. The trail has been around for a long time and was riden by only a handful of people, it was kept pretty quiet (for good reason) and as a result it stayed in good nick with very little maintainence.

It was never a wet weather trail and people respected this. Since the backburn thousands of punters have been hitting the track rain, hail or shine and it's now a mess. Just in the past 3 weeks it seems to have taken a turn for the worst and now with this re- route ... I get the feeling it'll be the final nail in the coffin.

So, in summary, to the people who built this re-route ( and all the other new shitty trails) ... Please just stop. Find somewhere else to build. To everyone else, respect the trails, don't ride delicate trails in the wet and you will find they'll last a lot longer.

We're our own worst enemy.

(RNP rider since 92)
 

willsy01

Eats Squid
Just to confirm (because I get the feeling people are confused), the diversion on the NORTHERN side of the creek is all sanctioned.
 
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