Upgrade or buy Giant XTC advance SL 29er 0 2014

[dusty_nz]

I have a Van Nic Zion 29er. Love the bike, Great fun with a more play than race geometry. Great for wheeling, Jumping etc.

Weight of 12kg (11.8) is not a problem but a big event coming up and the only way I can achieve my target goal is to loose lots of weight.

My current race setup is 12kg (Bike) + 5kg (camel bak) + 90kg (myself with clothes) = 107kg.

The goal is to reduce this to

9kg (bike) + 3kg (camlebak) + 82kg (me) = 94kg total weight.

How feasible would it be to get the Zion to the under 10kg mark. If not then I need to sell this and buy a new bike $6k to $7k

Here is the bike


FRAME: Van Nicholas Zion 29e Small 1610 gm
FRAME: RockShox SID RCT3 Maxle 29er 100mm Sus Fork - 2012 White 1588 gm
HEADSET: Chris King Headset 115 gm

SEAT: Van Nicholas Titanium Seat Post 31.8 264 gm
SEAT: Specialized Phenom 209 gm
SEAT: Hope clamp 52 gm

CRANKS: Race Face Deus SL Ti Crank (Incl BB) 795 gm
PEDALS: Shimano XT Trail 408 gm

WHEELS: Hope Hub Front Pro II 185 gm
WHEELS: Hope Hub Rear Pro II 310 gm
WHEELS: Dt Spokes 64 spokes @ 264mm 520 gm
WHEELS: ZTR Crest Rims 680 gm
WHEELS: Maxxis Ardent LUST 2.25 Front & Rear 1670 gm
WHEELS: Latex 100 gm
WHEELS: Front QR 60 gm
WHEELS: Rear QR 60 gm

BRAKES: Shimano XT Trail brakes 407 gm
BRAKES: Hope Rotors 127+90gm 217 gm
STEERING: Eastern EZ70 3/4 Riser Bars 680mm 235 gm
STEERING: Raceface Evolve 90mm 170 gm
STEERING: Sram X0 Shifters 195 gm
STEERING: Cables 70 gm
STEERING: Yeti Lockon Grips 92 gm

DERAILLEUR: Shimano XT Front 152 gm
DERAILLEUR: Shimano SLX Shadow Plus Std Cage 238 gm

GEARS: 9sp Cassette 300 gm
GEARS: 9sp Chain 273 gm

MISC: Garmin Computer Mount 10 gm
MISC: Drink Cage 40 gm

Where to start.
Realistically, I could sell this for around $2k leaving $4.5k difference. Thats my budget. maybe

 

[Capone]

Keep the bike. Lose some body weigh you will be laughing. Ti over carbon everytime

 

[dusty_nz]

Keep the bike. Lose some body weigh you will be laughing. Ti over carbon everytime

I am. Started at 110kg a few years ago.

Dropping another 8 will be leaving me very lean. Need to look at other places for weight.

 

[ozdavo]

Almost every part is average to heavy in the weight stakes. For a sub 10kg geared MTB with suspension, almost every part needs to be light to very light.
I'd look a doing up a spreadsheet with the parts and weights as listed, then play around changing items until you get where you want to be. Sub 10 should be achievable keeping your frame, fork & wheels.
Maybe consider going 1x10 with a direct mount chainring on an X0, X01 or XX1 crank which will save close to 1/2kg straight up, then look at all cockpit & contact points (seat, seatpost, pedals, stem, bars, grips, seatpost clamp, etc) Lts of weight to be saved there!
Checkout the weightweenies forums for more ideas.



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[caad9]

I'm not sure how loyal you are to those Ardents, but swapping those for some racier tyres will get you a HUGE and relatively cheap weight saving. Say a pair of a Racing Ralph tubeless ready tyres as an example, you'd be around 700g lighter, possibly more. You'd grab these for $100.

Your acceleration will improve noticeably with this change, it's commonly said that rotational weight counts for double.

Continuing this theme, look at a SRAM PG 990 cassette and lighter chain. That should shed a bit too. The cassette can usually be had for $60-$70 when shopping around. This would help with another 100g

Whilst I love the weightweenie side of cycling, there is also this to think about.
Your bike is setup for 'fun', as a generalisation, the XTC isn't. In a one off race, this may be ideal, but will it make you ride more or enjoy it as much on regular riding?

If you could keep both, it's a no-brainer. The much lighter and stiffer bike will be faster in racing situations.

 

[Cúl-Báire]

That bike is a thing of beauty , so I would certainly not be in a hurry to sell it just to buy a Holden (Giant) :car:

Being a "former" weight weenie myself I can tell you it's the little things you don't think about that all add up. First up I would be replacing the tires with something lighter, Schwalbe, Continental, Rubena, Geax and many others have plenty of 2.25" tires that are around circa 500g each that will chop around 600g of rotating mass; after doing this your bike will feel much much faster you'll probably not bother with the rest.

Following on from above, the seat post clamps can be had around 30g, the saddle again fairly heavy if your racing XCO consider something much lighter as you'll rarely be sitting on it anyways - I know the saddle thing is quite subjective however one of my favorite saddles was a 120g Selle Italia SLR. Pedals again subjective but can be found for <300g, bars buy some Easton EC90's which come in around 135g, stem can be swapped out for something around the 100g mark, grab some light foam grips at 20g. I would also look at swapping out the rotors, QR's, cassette and chain.


As I said above the bike is a thing of beauty, I really think swapping out the tires will make a world of difference the other stuff is just more here and there stuff to swap when it wares out such as the chain and cassette, or when you can afford it. As other said there is a line between fun and "race" bike I know which I'd ride more.

 

[pharmaboy]

You might be barking up the wrong tree.

For weight - change the way you carry water, and only carry enough to get you through to re supplies - this will depend on temperature and the HR that you are using to get there, but choose bottles and or soft packs of water in Jersey pockets. This will also keep you cooler.


For Speed. Change those tyres over a few weeks before the race to something that's fast and efficient and also light . Options would include for the rear racing Ralph's as mentioned above (pacestar, snakeskin), Icon EXO , and ardent race on the front or nobby nic. There are lots of other options, but you need a really efficient tyre on the rear.

It just happens that light weight tyres also tend to be efficient rolling models, so whole it's commonly believed that it's all about rotating weight, it's actually about the resistance of the tyre - always however spend a few weeks getting used to the combination before a race, because you will lose grip.

Learn to manage nutrition while riding .

Actually, of all things, managing energy intake and hydration and speed will make the most difference to the motor, ie preparation .

It's a Great bike!

Incidentally, calling tyre "boat anchors" is a great analogy, while anchors are heavy they actually work by grabbing the ground

 

[dusty_nz]

Thanks for the great feedback.

The above is from a spreadsheet and spent the night playing with numbers.

What I will prob do is.
BARS : Eastern EC90 bars 135 grams or a other wider bar.
STEM : Eastern EC90 Stem at 110grams
WHEELS : Eastern EC90 Carbon at 1416 grams
CRANKS : Sram X0 (Single) at around 655 grams
TYRES : Racing Ralph 29 x 2.25 At 1040 grams
F-DERAILLEUR : Remove saving 150 grams

If I am careful and take my time I should be able to get this stuff for good prices. Bit nervous about the wheels, Mixed stories.

That should remove 1.5kg off the bike. Bringing it to just over 10kg. I am down almost 700 grams on the frame. XTC Carbon is around 1000 grams.

Also looking at my camel bak, changing to a CB Rogue from a CB Mule (Big 3l all day pack), Spares will be cut back to 2l water, 1 CO2 and allen key + pump.

Loosing 15kg from the race package will drop my water demands massively.

Not sure about fuel. Averaging close to 200 watts/hour for 5 hours. Still need to maintain that. Usually race with a bottle with close to 1000 calories of magic.

 

[dusty_nz]

Or buy a S/H 2013 Giant XTC Advance SL 0 for around $3k

9.5kg starting point

 

[pharmaboy]

Plan your fuel, then test it out while monitoring heart rate as well. The AUstralian institute of sport is a great source of info on intakes etc. also consider a good caffeine plan.

Just looking at the bike , I suspect you might get a good efficiency advantage with a flat bar - your hand height is pretty high compared to seat

 

[dusty_nz]

Plan your fuel, then test it out while monitoring heart rate as well. The AUstralian institute of sport is a great source of info on intakes etc. also consider a good caffeine plan.

Just looking at the bike , I suspect you might get a good efficiency advantage with a flat bar - your hand height is pretty high compared to seat

Yeah, Just completed the Munda Biddi and lifted the front for comfort.

 

[caad9]

I'd save yourself the money on the ec90 stem and grab a 3T team stem. You'll save yourself a lot of $$.
The ec90 bar is also narrow by modern standards, something to keep in mind.

I'd always be wary of changing everything on your bike to turn it into something you can get straight out of the box.
If you were able to find and pickup a 2013 XTC advanced 1, you could use $1500 to shave plenty of weight.

 

[pistonbroke]

Buy the new bike. New bikes are always faster. I'm not sure if it's all psychological but scientific testing (Strava) has proven time and time again that the fastest bike is the shiniest. Fact.

 

[spudatm]

How quick are you aiming to do the race in? If you are aiming to be at the pointy end I get the changes you are looking at but if you are just looking to go sub 6 hrs say then loosing weight and a serious training programme and chucking on some lighter tyres will have a much greater impact than the expensive minimal gains you will get from buying lighter parts. For example when I did my first marathon I would take 8 hrs plus . With some weight loss and taking my training seriously I can now go sub 6. All on the same bike. I reckon my bike being a little lighter may have saved me some minutes but MTB racing is expensive enough as it is.

 

[dusty_nz]

How quick are you aiming to do the race in? If you are aiming to be at the pointy end I get the changes you are looking at but if you are just looking to go sub 6 hrs say then loosing weight and a serious training programme and chucking on some lighter tyres will have a much greater impact than the expensive minimal gains you will get from buying lighter parts. For example when I did my first marathon I would take 8 hrs plus . With some weight loss and taking my training seriously I can now go sub 6. All on the same bike. I reckon my bike being a little lighter may have saved me some minutes but MTB racing is expensive enough as it is.

Close to the pointy end. The fastest girl was 4:43 however that might be stretching things.

Fastest guys are around the 4:20 hours average is around 6.5 hours.

First time I rode I weighed 110kg and get a time of 7:40.
Last year I completed it in 5:39 and weighed 95kg and rode a 26" hard tail.

My sustained power output for this event is now around the 200 watts and increasing this is very limited. Eg tour de france rider will average around 185-195 for a 4-5 hour stage however they are saving some for the next day. Maximum you could hope for sustained for 4+ hours is 220 watts and you are reaching genetic limitations.

I completed 3 Peaks (Victoria) this year with a time of 9:23 and average power of 197 watts. The fastest guy at 7 hours also average 197 watts. Difference is he weighed 65-70kg and I weighed 95.

My current weight is 87 and around 20% body fat. If I got to 80kg I will be borderline single digits body fat which is pushing things. Genetics sux at times. Thats why I also need to look at the bike. Food and hydration is good, simply cause I can maintain the power output.

As mentioned at the start. I am loosing 8kg off myself, 3 off the bike and 2 of my kit. That should get me a total race weight of 95kg. The guys coming first are around the high 70's.

 

[mitchy_]

as Cúl-Báire mentioned, a lot of the smaller things will help..
i've just got my commuter below 8kg, however i have rigid carbon forks and 700c tyres (on heavy-ish 29er XC wheels though), so you can add another ~kilo for suspension forks and proper tyres.

lighter wheels, tyres, tubes, cassette, rotors, etc. are your best items. losing rotating mass will be more noticeable than losing the same amount elsewhere.
SID World Cup's will save you ~200 grams, new carbon crank will save ~300... depending on how deep you want to splurge, X01/XX1 will save you over half a kilo in the overall drive train and still give you a wide gear range.

 

[pharmaboy]

Hi dusty, when you look at weight, you have to look at it as a % of the whole package, so for an 80 kg package, the bike is 10/80 and more important than 10/95. However, a 70kg rider can also race a 10kg FS bike and it will all work, but for me at 86kg, that carbon crowned fork and race gold rims etc are going to twist and flex, and those super light wheels might break spokes in corners. All in all, I am in a different weight class so I am also in a different bike class.

 

[Big JD]

Mr Dusty,

Pharma is on to it mate.

Some light race wheels, tyres and cassette would be the start. I understand your desire to lighten up your bikes weight and congratulate you on loosing body weight. At 90kgs plus we cant really push the weight wennie too much- we are above the norm and need strength.

Your ti frame is stunning and would be such a pleasure to ride- especially on a longer ride. Make the changes to the rotational weight and a few other cheap options (secondhand seat, post, stem, bars and cranks). Go 1 x 9/10 and really set it up for XC rather than trail (lower the front end).

The money you save can be spent on an uber light weight killer SS HT or CX bike - great way to loose some weight, pick up the skills and add some strength to the legs mate.

 

[dusty_nz]

Agree. Will keep the bike and shed some weight. 1x10 drive train. Carbon bar and stem. Maybe some easton ec90 wheels and leave it at that. I have a bunch of other bikes so no need to build another. Will also spend some time rope learning the course with training rides. Race day I will risk some racing Ralph tyres. Maybe even 2.1.

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[Big JD]

inverted 6 degree stem, flat carbon bars, 1 x 10 and light tyres and you wont know yourself mate.