Vorsprung Suspension Corset Fox Air Shock Upgrade

[S.]

what country would that be???

So Steve can we send our stuff to you?

I'm in Australia for the next few weeks, back to Whistler shortly though.

Speak to Brad at Tekin (www.tekin.bike) for Vorsprung-related stuff you need, he knows what's up and makes sure his customers are well looked after.

Interested to know how one of these would go on my rocky..

Might have an answer for you tomorrow! What model?

Excellent customer service indeed, I took it in to him this morning on my way to work and he installed the missing o-ring and put everything together on the spot!

I'd have to say, this thing is amazing - it really does feel like a coil spring! The plushness/lack of stiction in the first part of the stroke is infinitely better than with the old air sleeve and it seems to hold up well in the mid stroke and ramp up at the end is as it should be. Can't wait to get it on the trail. It does need a lot more pressure to get the same amount of sag as mentioned; I went from 180PSI to 250. The amazing thing is that it doesn't matter how much air you put in it, that soft, buttery feel in the first part of the travel stays the same, rather than ramping up to a rock-hard uber linear pogo-stick like it used too...

Glad to hear you're liking it! Don't be afraid to run it with a little more sag than you had before - as you noted, one of the best things about it is that it allows you to change the air pressure quite substantially without going from way too soft to excessively harsh in the space of 5psi.

 

[Ky1e]

Might have an answer for you tomorrow! What model?

It's an instinct 999 msl. Keen to hear more!

 

[Klips]

Add the Norco Sight 7.1 C to that list of 'bikes this would or would not work well on' please. Particularly in the 'oh and we've released the DB Inline' flavour. I've got the DB set up in what feel nice to me, but am always keen for even better!

For those who engineering inclined, I found the graph (http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/norco-sight-carbon-2014.html?m=0) but can't translate that to the categories listed above (linear, progressive etc). Could someone help a brother out?

 

[blacksp20]

That'd be a progressive design. Number 2 in Steves big description post.

 

[Klips]

Thanks for that. Good to find out my frame which can't even run a piggyback shock is essentially designed for a coil :S

 

[S.]

Thanks for that. Good to find out my frame which can't even run a piggyback shock is essentially designed for a coil :S

Running an air shock on a progressive frame is not the end of the world, especially in cases where the linkage progression is 20% or less overall (the Sight is about 21% according to that graph, which may not be 100% precise anyway). Much more than that and you start having issues using the end of the travel without the middle being too soft - the Corset does help increase the mid stroke spring rate without making the end stroke crazy stiff. Is it how I'd personally design it? Not quite, but there are definitely worse configurations out there that people are happy enough with.

 

[DeBloot]

Thanks for your email replies Steve
Will you be posting to your FB page when the spacers/ volume reducers become available?

 

[blacksp20]

there are definitely worse configurations out there that people are happy enough with.

Can you elaborate further on this?

 

[Zaf]

Blue Balled by Vorsprung!!
Just got the e-mail detailing a problem in the production of the 8.5x2.5 Large sleeves. I was hoping to have the Corset dialed in and ready for Rotorua but I'll likely wait for the replacement part to come in before I install anything onto the bike. New toys coming in and I can't play with them.

 

[moman]

I've been Vorsprung!

Thanks to Tekin having stock of my not as popular 7.5 x 2.0 corset size I was on the phone with them yesterday and have it on my SB95 today.

Ride up and down the street and a bit of a bounce confirms that there is definitely WAY less stiction in the initial part of the stroke and a little more mid-stroke support but I have no idea how much of my travel I will be able to use at this pressure (based on sag) until I hit the trails.

Keen to get it out on the dirt and see how it goes as opposed to my stock RP23.

 

[S.]

Thanks for your email replies Steve
Will you be posting to your FB page when the spacers/ volume reducers become available?

Sure will! www.facebook.com/vorsprungsuspension for those interested.

Can you elaborate further on this?

When I talk about something not being ideal, I basically am referring to it not being quite as good as I personally feel it could be. That means about 99% of everything in the market fits that bill. Performance isn't a yes or no thing, it's a sliding scale, and a lot of bikes (or components) are designed in ways that I believe can be improved upon - but that doesn't necessarily mean they're shit. I mean, if you were to zoom out and look at the problem we're addressing here, it is improving the spring curve on a:
1. Very light, very well-built, generally very reliable shock
2. On a $2500+ (minimum!) bicycle that weighs half of what the same thing did 15 years ago
3. ...that has had 20+ years of suspension evolution come before it, meaning that even the worst bikes on the market are actually alright. Can't use the last 10mm of your travel? Well, that's not perfect, but it probably won't cause cancer.

So when I say that one bike will, in my opinion, perform better than another, that doesn't mean that the other one is a throwaway job or anything remotely close to that. However, being an engineer, I'm pretty obsessed with optimisation, to a much greater degree than most people whose lives don't revolve around this type of thing.

Blue Balled by Vorsprung!!
Just got the e-mail detailing a problem in the production of the 8.5x2.5 Large sleeves. I was hoping to have the Corset dialed in and ready for Rotorua but I'll likely wait for the replacement part to come in before I install anything onto the bike. New toys coming in and I can't play with them.

Sorry!

 

[Ev]

I grabbed a corset from Tekin shortly after the release.
Was pretty excited to install this, as the press release stated that it would improve everything i didn't like about the float CTD on my banshee spitfire - this being a harsh feeling on initial compression, and lack of progressivity leading to regular bottom outs.

When I initially installed, the corset wouldn't hold air. After a quick email to Brad at Tekin, and consequently an email directly from Steve at Vorsprung, it was decided that the o-ring seals had been left out of the negative chamber, and these were mailed to me with instructions for replacement; which proved very simple. Very positive experience. Customer service from these guys is beyond expectations!

Since fitting these seals, installation of the corset was easy as pie. Simply deflate the shock, unscrew the old air can, screw on the new one, and inflate to roughly 25% higher than before.
Initially, there seemed to be some harsh top out on rebound, but after cycling the suspension a couple of times, this disappeared as the positive and negative chambers equalised.

I took it out to the new (ish) Serrata and Gahnia trails in Sydney today, for the first proper test ride.
Previously I ran ~180psi, and settled on ~240psi with the corset, giving me the ~16mm sag recommended on the spitfire. Immediately it is very obvious how much more sensitive the corset makes the shock. No more harsh initial impacts. The rear end just takes it in its stride.
Rear end traction improved substantially and I found I had much more control over the back of the bike.

I noted when climbing, that there is a little more pedal bob than previously, however this is more than negated by the increased traction and small bump absorption.

The midstroke feels much more controlled and less wallowy, as promised, and progression of the shock has increased. Not once did I bottom out today, where previously I would have bottomed out many times over a ride.

End result; the corset does exactly what it said it would. Up until today, I was considering replacing the shock as it felt rubbish in comparison to my Pike up front. However with the Corset, I now feel as though the fox CTD now has similar performance characteristics to the pike and is well matched on my bike.
Highly recommended!

 

[Ivan]

I grabbed a corset from Tekin shortly after the release.
Was pretty excited to install this, as the press release stated that it would improve everything i didn't like about the float CTD on my banshee spitfire - this being a harsh feeling on initial compression, and lack of progressivity leading to regular bottom outs.

When I initially installed, the corset wouldn't hold air. After a quick email to Brad at Tekin, and consequently an email directly from Steve at Vorsprung, it was decided that the o-ring seals had been left out of the negative chamber, and these were mailed to me with instructions for replacement; which proved very simple. Very positive experience. Customer service from these guys is beyond expectations!

Since fitting these seals, installation of the corset was easy as pie. Simply deflate the shock, unscrew the old air can, screw on the new one, and inflate to roughly 25% higher than before.
Initially, there seemed to be some harsh top out on rebound, but after cycling the suspension a couple of times, this disappeared as the positive and negative chambers equalised.

I took it out to the new (ish) Serrata and Gahnia trails in Sydney today, for the first proper test ride.
Previously I ran ~180psi, and settled on ~240psi with the corset, giving me the ~16mm sag recommended on the spitfire. Immediately it is very obvious how much more sensitive the corset makes the shock. No more harsh initial impacts. The rear end just takes it in its stride.
Rear end traction improved substantially and I found I had much more control over the back of the bike.

I noted when climbing, that there is a little more pedal bob than previously, however this is more than negated by the increased traction and small bump absorption.

The midstroke feels much more controlled and less wallowy, as promised, and progression of the shock has increased. Not once did I bottom out today, where previously I would have bottomed out many times over a ride.

End result; the corset does exactly what it said it would. Up until today, I was considering replacing the shock as it felt rubbish in comparison to my Pike up front. However with the Corset, I now feel as though the fox CTD now has similar performance characteristics to the pike and is well matched on my bike.
Highly recommended!

That s a good review Ev. Have you ridden Spitfire with a Cane Creek? it would be interesting to hear the comparison.

 

[Nautonier]

I grabbed a corset from Tekin shortly after the release.
Was pretty excited to install this, as the press release stated that it would improve everything i didn't like about the float CTD on my banshee spitfire - this being a harsh feeling on initial compression, and lack of progressivity leading to regular bottom outs.

When I initially installed, the corset wouldn't hold air. After a quick email to Brad at Tekin, and consequently an email directly from Steve at Vorsprung, it was decided that the o-ring seals had been left out of the negative chamber, and these were mailed to me with instructions for replacement; which proved very simple. Very positive experience. Customer service from these guys is beyond expectations!

Since fitting these seals, installation of the corset was easy as pie. Simply deflate the shock, unscrew the old air can, screw on the new one, and inflate to roughly 25% higher than before.
Initially, there seemed to be some harsh top out on rebound, but after cycling the suspension a couple of times, this disappeared as the positive and negative chambers equalised.

I took it out to the new (ish) Serrata and Gahnia trails in Sydney today, for the first proper test ride.
Previously I ran ~180psi, and settled on ~240psi with the corset, giving me the ~16mm sag recommended on the spitfire. Immediately it is very obvious how much more sensitive the corset makes the shock. No more harsh initial impacts. The rear end just takes it in its stride.
Rear end traction improved substantially and I found I had much more control over the back of the bike.

I noted when climbing, that there is a little more pedal bob than previously, however this is more than negated by the increased traction and small bump absorption.

The midstroke feels much more controlled and less wallowy, as promised, and progression of the shock has increased. Not once did I bottom out today, where previously I would have bottomed out many times over a ride.

End result; the corset does exactly what it said it would. Up until today, I was considering replacing the shock as it felt rubbish in comparison to my Pike up front. However with the Corset, I now feel as though the fox CTD now has similar performance characteristics to the pike and is well matched on my bike.
Highly recommended!

You had a similar experience to myself re the missing o-ring. Regarding the harsh top-out, Steve explained to me that this is normal during initial installation as the air pressure equalises in the chambers. For me the top-out stopped after I cycled the suspension though a couple of times at 150PSI and then pumped it up to the full pressure. I hope this is mentioned in the revised instructions as if users didn't know that this was normal, it could cause concern.

Good to hear your ride report, I've only ridden around the block thus far, but will get it out on trails tomorrow. I've gone from 180PSI to 260 as I felt like I was using all the travel by just bouncing violently at around 240PSI. Even at 260 I'm on about 33% sag, so hoping it will ramp up and not bottom out too easily. I also have the CTD - how much do you weigh to not be bottoming it out at 240PSI? Although obviously your bike's leverage ratio will differ from my Spesh Enduro.

If I didn't need air reducer spacers before, is it possible that I will need them now to stop harsh bottom outs? I did read that the Corset shouldn't affect the end stroke characteristics, but it's hard to judge with so much sag and working with new air pressure settings. Would it be weird to need over 260PSI to make it ramp up when I was currently running 180?

 

[DeBloot]

Great review Ev.
My CTD regularly bottoms out and shits me to tears
Overall, I don't consider it a great shock
Anyway, I'm hoping the corset will bring it to life
But I'll hold out for the spacers in a couple of weeks

 

[bell.cameron]

Great review Ev.
My CTD regularly bottoms out and shits me to tears
Overall, I don't consider it a great shock
Anyway, I'm hoping the corset will bring it to life
But I'll hold out for the spacers in a couple of weeks

I hated the float CTD on my reign because it bottomed out so often i had to run ridiculous pressures for my weight. Now I have VPP and its a whole new beast..

 

[Ev]

That s a good review Ev. Have you ridden Spitfire with a Cane Creek? it would be interesting to hear the comparison.

I have ridden the spitfire with a cane creek, however it was only briefly during a demo ride, and it was not setup for my weight/style. I actually didn't get on with it. I found that if felt quite flat, and didn't give the bike the plush playful feel that the fox CTD did. I'm sure it's a great shock, and that when properly setup it would feel amazing. After putting a pike up front, the CTD felt very unbalanced, and left me considering a CCDBA, however the performance upgrades of the corset has changed that again, and I'll be sticking with the CTD now.

You had a similar experience to myself re the missing o-ring. Regarding the harsh top-out, Steve explained to me that this is normal during initial installation as the air pressure equalises in the chambers. For me the top-out stopped after I cycled the suspension though a couple of times at 150PSI and then pumped it up to the full pressure. I hope this is mentioned in the revised instructions as if users didn't know that this was normal, it could cause concern.

Good to hear your ride report, I've only ridden around the block thus far, but will get it out on trails tomorrow. I've gone from 180PSI to 260 as I felt like I was using all the travel by just bouncing violently at around 240PSI. Even at 260 I'm on about 33% sag, so hoping it will ramp up and not bottom out too easily. I also have the CTD - how much do you weigh to not be bottoming it out at 240PSI? Although obviously your bike's leverage ratio will differ from my Spesh Enduro.

If I didn't need air reducer spacers before, is it possible that I will need them now to stop harsh bottom outs? I did read that the Corset shouldn't affect the end stroke characteristics, but it's hard to judge with so much sag and working with new air pressure settings. Would it be weird to need over 260PSI to make it ramp up when I was currently running 180?

I weigh ~92kg, previously ran 180psi in order to get some small bump compliance, which led to the wallowy mid stroke and excessive bottoming. Now running 240psi, getting outstanding small bump sensitivity, a supportive mid stroke and no bottoming. I was considering volume spacers prior to the corset, but honestly don't think I'll need them now. My advice would be to have a chat with Brad at Tekin, he's a great blike and is very knowledgable about suspension setup.

Great review Ev.
My CTD regularly bottoms out and shits me to tears
Overall, I don't consider it a great shock
Anyway, I'm hoping the corset will bring it to life
But I'll hold out for the spacers in a couple of weeks

As mentioned above, I was considering volume spacers before the corset, and now don't require them due to the increased progression. Definitely worth considering, but you may not actually need them.

 

[Nautonier]

I weigh ~92kg, previously ran 180psi in order to get some small bump compliance, which led to the wallowy mid stroke and excessive bottoming. Now running 240psi, getting outstanding small bump sensitivity, a supportive mid stroke and no bottoming.

Rode it today and can report similar findings to yourself (awesome small bump compliance/rear end traction, good mid-stroke support, slightly more pedal bob on hills, but not a problem etc) although my pressures were radically different to yours. I weigh ~70kg and used to run 170 - 180 PSI. Today I started at 250PSI with the Corset, which was giving me more than 30% sag and it was bottoming out all over the show on trails with no big hits. I pumped it up to 270 and then 280PSI and then it started behaving itself. Still good with small bump compliance, but it ramps up more and doesn't bottom out so easily. The small bump compliance at 280PSI isn't quite as good as it was at 250 however, so I might talk to Brad about some volume spacers.

My overall impression of the Corset was that it felt like riding a DH bike with a Ti spring. Very impressed and would also highly recommend.

Steve, if you are reading this, do you think 280PSI is too high for a 70kg rider? Does this mean I need spacers?

 

[S.]

Rode it today and can report similar findings to yourself (awesome small bump compliance/rear end traction, good mid-stroke support, slightly more pedal bob on hills, but not a problem etc) although my pressures were radically different to yours. I weigh ~70kg and used to run 170 - 180 PSI. Today I started at 250PSI with the Corset, which was giving me more than 30% sag and it was bottoming out all over the show on trails with no big hits. I pumped it up to 270 and then 280PSI and then it started behaving itself. Still good with small bump compliance, but it ramps up more and doesn't bottom out so easily. The small bump compliance at 280PSI isn't quite as good as it was at 250 however, so I might talk to Brad about some volume spacers.

My overall impression of the Corset was that it felt like riding a DH bike with a Ti spring. Very impressed and would also highly recommend.

Steve, if you are reading this, do you think 280PSI is too high for a 70kg rider? Does this mean I need spacers?

Sounds like a volume spacer could help you out quite a bit there. What bike is this on?

 

[blacksp20]

Thanks to those that have posted before and after shock pressures and their weight. I'm definitely thinking I'm too heavy to be running a corset on my RP23. At 120kg running 250psi already, I think I'll be well over 300psi with a corset and I don't want to push the RP23 past Fox's recommended pressures.

Sorry Steve, I'd love to give one a go but it's out of the question until I lose 20kg+