What carbon rims would you build with cushcore

[slider_phil]

That makes sense. My install was pretty straight forward too. Harder than a normal tyre for sure but only about 15 mins all told. I've got it on a lighter trail bike and I try and use lighter tyres. And my main reason is to prevent rim strikes. I'm only 74kg and consider myself relativily fit.

My Monday night ride I managed to KOM a segment (completely flat but quite a few corners) coming in at 4:01 minutes. My best over the last few weeks has been averaging 4:07. My only change has been cushcore in the rear and a Nobby Nic on the back rather than a Racing Ralph. So theoretically a slower rolling tyre but I'm putting it down to the extra corner grip as there's lots of corners where maintaining speed is key.

I'm thinking that's tyre over insert but if I gain any advantage over simple rim protection, I'll be a happy camper.

 

[Zaf]

What are you suggesting produces a better ride quality with the cushcore:

(a) less air volume in the tyres;
(b) lower pressures for the lighter weight carcass;
(c) something else ?

It's like having an extra small bump damper on the bike.
The first bike I installed them on was my Honzo, and admittedly, that bike had the most marked behavior change. Being a hardtail, it can skip and bounce around a bit in rocky terrain as your legs try and keep up with the impacts, the inserts reduce this dramatically; a muted, far less harsh ride. The noise the bike makes changes as well, a deep, low, traction rumble over all terrain.
I didn't even go to lighter carcass tyres, I'm running EXO TR Minion DHF 2.5's, Minion SS 2.3's, Aggressor 2.3's and High Roller II 2.3's.

With the exception of a brief spell on my Bontrager Line Pro 40's, these have all been used on alloy rims. DTSwiss EX471, Wheelworx (I believe Easton ARC30 at the time of building) and Bontrager Line 30 Pro Alloys. As I've said, the weight is far less of an issue for me given my power output and system weight, but I am that impressed with how good the ride quality increase is...well, I've purchased units for all my bikes.

 

[The Reverend]

I recall a thread recently asking what it's like riding with carbon rims wheels, and without doubt they're just amazing and feel beautiful when you have ones which are well engineered + built. The feeling is great, right up to the the moment when you crack / break one and realise you're staring at the sharp end of $$$ to fix as a crash replacement or total loss.

The Cushcore solution to me seems to offer more than just pinch flat and rim protection and makes the ride more comfortable and grippy. Could you do it with aluminium rims? Sure and for some the weight difference might not be a factor.

I don't know whether in terms of ride quality this view stacks up;
carbon+cushcore >> aluminium + cushcore >> carbon with no cuschcore >> aluminium with no cushcore. And the weight penalty be damned?

It'd be an interesting test....

All I know having cracked one carbon rim I'm now looking at this and other solutions. The weight savings were a factor but not the sole reason for going carbon...

 

[ianganderton]

Thanks for all the thoughts and experiences folks

The wheels I have at the top of my carbon shopping list are the LB AM728. But I’m still not convinced on carbon

The DT Swiss EX1501 splines that came on my Strive have been awesome for a year now and I really really trust them. They have had a few rim strikes on hard edges (including 1 big one boosting the tram line at Loftus that split the tyre) but remain straight and ding free.

At 1730g for the wheel set I’ve used them for the base to see what the differences would be with various rim protectors and DD tyres

Cush core just seems sooooo heavy. Tooo heavy. Plus it’s expensive. For me right now the sums don’t add up

I’m going to carry on with my current set up


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[caad9]

It would be interesting to blind test two bikes with this installed and without.
Purely from a numbers perspective, the weight difference is a significant factor, but as bikes improve I believe weight is becoming less and less of an issue. We are asking more of our bikes and handling/braking/suspension are going to help that experience along more than weight savings (Top end XC racing aside)

Trail & Enduro bikes are certainly not lighter than they were 3-4 years ago

 

[Zaf]

What are you trying to achieve?

 

[ianganderton]

What are you trying to achieve?

Lighter, faster, stronger, better of course!!!!




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[Zaf]

Follow up question; when was the last time you saw the lightest bike being the strongest or the fastest?

 

[Ultra Lord]

those tram lines have seen some shit in their time. I’ve seen five different dudes blow their tyres trying to hop over since I’ve been riding in there.

Might I suggest bunny hop practice as opposed to spending money on wheel stuff?

“Lighter, faster, stronger” can also happen without dropping cash hahahaha. Aluminium rims are great for the price you pay, not a worthwhile upgrade imo.

 

[ianganderton]

Follow up question; when was the last time you saw the lightest bike being the strongest or the fastest?

Never of course but when did 'what I want' need to be reasonable

 

[ianganderton]

those tram lines have seen some shit in their time. I’ve seen five different dudes blow their tyres trying to hop over since I’ve been riding in there.

Might I suggest bunny hop practice as opposed to spending money on wheel stuff?

“Lighter, faster, stronger” can also happen without dropping cash hahahaha. Aluminium rims are great for the price you pay, not a worthwhile upgrade imo.

Of course I agree with all this

I'm really impressed with my current wheels but not my skill level despite knocking on 30 years of consistant practice :'(

 

[Zaf]

Never of course but when did 'what I want' need to be reasonable

What do you want more:
To have the lightest bike?
To have the strongest bike?
To have the fastest bike?

I know Cushcores look expensive, but you're about to drop how many dollars on carbon LB wheels to save 90g, and I can pretty much tell you that adding Cushcores will have a more profound effect on your speed (especially with a bike like the Strive) than that weight loss will.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Thanks for all the thoughts and experiences folks

The minion SS exo is a flimsy shitty tyre with no side wall support, also doesn't like wider internal rim profiles (25>mm). Its probably alright for XC/trail riding, but for anything else its meh, you have to run 30> psi and you still get some squirm, where as a SG rock razor <22 psi. Havent used the DD version but I'd wager it would solve most of the issues with that tyre, the rock razor super grav is also another awesome tyre in that category of tyres.

I wonder how many cracked carbon rims occur with lighter tyres vs heavy tyres regardless of the riding.

 

[ianganderton]

What do you want more:
To have the lightest bike?
To have the strongest bike?
To have the fastest bike?

I know Cushcores look expensive, but you're about to drop how many dollars on carbon LB wheels to save 90g, and I can pretty much tell you that adding Cushcores will have a more profound effect on your speed (especially with a bike like the Strive) than that weight loss will.

Good points

The aim is for my bike to be a functional balance of cost / weight / strong / fast. I'm pretty middle of the road when it comes to speed, I do race and enjoy it but more from a participation point of view rather competing for podiums

One of the problems I have is my bike gets used for a wide variety of riding. RNP to Garingal to Thredbo to Queenstown to Rotorua to Hajar. I'm not keen on having to swap tyres or inserts.

But it is a good point, the cushcore probably make a difference for uplift style riding. I wonder on the more day to day riding including climbs I do though, 500g in rotating weight will be super noticable

 

[Ultra Lord]

Of course I agree with all this

I'm really impressed with my current wheels but not my skill level despite knocking on 30 years of consistant practice :'(

Time to hit up that new pump track out at menia and brush up on some skills it looks pretty good, haven’t ridden there yet though so can’t comment.

 

[ianganderton]

Time to hit up that new pump track out at menia and brush up on some skills it looks pretty good, haven’t ridden there yet though so can’t comment.

Yeah it looks great swung by there on the way back from Canberra recently but didnt ride, fence is gone now apparently.

Fitness & skills can always be much better than they are. Buying new bling parts reduces the need for the effort required for that though surely

 

[Ultra Lord]

Undoubtably. And they make you more keen to get out so it’s a win-win.

What else can we spend your money on though? What fork you running? Surely some DVO diamonds wouldn’t go astray hahaha

 

[ianganderton]

Undoubtably. And they make you more keen to get out so it’s a win-win.

What else can we spend your money on though? What fork you running? Surely some DVO diamonds wouldn’t go astray hahaha

Quite happy with my factory 36's for now. Need to get them serviced

I'm happy with the conclusion I've come to for now based on the feedback I've had

Cush core just seems sooooo heavy. Tooo heavy. Plus it’s expensive. For me right now the sums don’t add up

I’m going to carry on with my current set up

I'm interested in trying carbon rims though. Its not just weight, I want to see for myself the benifits of stiffness and vibration damping. Any weight saving is always very positive on wheels, it counts in a different way to other weight gains/savings

 

[Ultra Lord]

Quite happy with my factory 36's for now. Need to get them serviced

*shrugs* may aswell go the coil conversion then when there in for a rebuild hahaha.

36’s are dope but. Love mine.

Soooooooo what did you end up deciding?
Sorry if you said and I missed in my rush of trying to push you into large frivolous purchases.

 

[teK--]

I recall a thread recently asking what it's like riding with carbon rims wheels, and without doubt they're just amazing and feel beautiful when you have ones which are well engineered + built. The feeling is great, right up to the the moment when you crack / break one and realise you're staring at the sharp end of $$$ to fix as a crash replacement or total loss.

The Cushcore solution to me seems to offer more than just pinch flat and rim protection and makes the ride more comfortable and grippy. Could you do it with aluminium rims? Sure and for some the weight difference might not be a factor.

I don't know whether in terms of ride quality this view stacks up;
carbon+cushcore >> aluminium + cushcore >> carbon with no cuschcore >> aluminium with no cushcore. And the weight penalty be damned?

It'd be an interesting test....

All I know having cracked one carbon rim I'm now looking at this and other solutions. The weight savings were a factor but not the sole reason for going carbon...

The only one of those 4 combinations I havent ridden extensively is carbon+cushcore. Only reason because cushcore wasn't available at the time.

Now I will never go back to having no cushcore on the back. Really the feeling is that good and I imagine it would be similar with carbon rims but with a weight advantage.