Food/Diet Which protein product?

sundy

Likes Dirt
Apologies if this has been covered before. I did a search and I see that a lot of people are using protein products, but I'm interested to hear WHICH products exactly you are using.
I'm interested to hear what brand and type, how much you pay for it, and where you get it from. The stuff can be expensive so I'm keen to find the best deals.

I've used protein products from time to time over the years, but I'm a real novice.
I'm currently using "Muscletech Phase 8", 2kg for $89 from AAA Supplements. I'm not trying to be the Hulk or anything, I just want to be a bit stronger on the pedals.
 

Mywifesirrational

I however am very normal. Trust me.
I usually buy mine in a plain bag from a dodgy mate. Some sort of whey protein, no idea of brand.

My only considerations are that is tastes ok and has little to no glucose in it. They way I can add glucose as I need to based on what else I've had that day and it's keeps the total daily kj intake low.

Often some very good deals on ebay, shops and gyms have retarded prices.
 

UKDavo

Likes Bikes
Beast Whey from Aussie Supps. 5kg for $90-ish. Tastes great and a high kick of protein in 1 scoop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

rsquared

Likes Dirt
Apologies if this has been covered before. I did a search and I see that a lot of people are using protein products, but I'm interested to hear WHICH products exactly you are using.
I'm interested to hear what brand and type, how much you pay for it, and where you get it from. The stuff can be expensive so I'm keen to find the best deals.

I've used protein products from time to time over the years, but I'm a real novice.
I'm currently using "Muscletech Phase 8", 2kg for $89 from AAA Supplements. I'm not trying to be the Hulk or anything, I just want to be a bit stronger on the pedals.
Sundy, it's important to remember that the extra strength on the pedals is going to come from your training program. Your nutrition, whether supplements are part of that or not, play a major role in how well your body recovers & rebuilds from those training sessions which then determines how well or soon you can train again.

Disclaimer: so much information out there on the interweb about supplements, it's a major money making industry so you have to expect that. Problem is it's hard to know what's marketing hype and what's proven to work so don't take this as gospel but....

- The mix of protein and carbohydrate is important. From what I've read, somewhere around a 3:1 or 4:1 Carb to Protein ratio is optimal for muscle recovery and glycogen (carb stores) replenishment. This ratio actually goes against a lot of supplements out there which are 80-90% Protein and 0 carb. I have used Endura in the past but have just purchased some Bsc Fuel Recovery Protein. I use www.mrsupplement.com.au. Awesome service and super fast delivery.
- Carbs are important for a couple of reasons. Firstly because the insulin response caused by them in our blood stream improves the absorption both of the carbohydrate to replenish our energy stores but also of the protein to aid protein synthesis or muscle repair/growth. Secondly, if you deplete your glycogen stores and don't replenish post workout, your body will revert to breaking down protein in your muscles to help sustain you - not ideal for strength improvements (Marketing or science, i'm not 100% but it makes sense to me).
- Remember there is only so much protein your body can absorb in one sitting. More isn't better. Ideal amount seems to be around the 20-30grams as soon after a workout as you can.

Another thing to watch when buying protein powder is not just weight but how many servings per container. Some may be 2 scoops per serving whereas some may be 4 thus making them much more expensive eg. I discovered post delivery that my Bsc 1.44kg container only contains 18 servings which I thought was quite low.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
If you can your better getting your protein from food.
Shakes are good for convenience but that's about it.

As for brand I use Isonatural its costly but its the cleanest protein you will find.
93% protein per serve, good amino acid profile.
ingredients: Whey Protein Isolate (WPI90™), Lecithin (less than 1%).

I get flavorless as I add it to shakes.

I use this one primarily because its clean. Most shakes you will find have other things added and those questionable artificial sweeteners. The downside is because it is a pure isolate protein its not cheap. Its about $60-70 for 30serves. I only use it after workouts as I cant stomach solid food straight away.

Been stronger on the pedals comes down to training and overall nutrition, whey is not magically going to make you stronger its just protein.
Whey supplements are just ways to fill nutritional gaps if you can fill those gaps with food do so.

- Carbs are important for a couple of reasons. Firstly because the insulin response caused by them in our blood stream improves the absorption both of the carbohydrate to replenish our energy stores but also of the protein to aid protein synthesis or muscle repair/growth. Secondly, if you deplete your glycogen stores and don't replenish post workout, your body will revert to breaking down protein in your muscles to help sustain you - not ideal for strength improvements (Marketing or science, i'm not 100% but it makes sense to me).
- Remember there is only so much protein your body can absorb in one sitting. More isn't better. Ideal amount seems to be around the 20-30grams as soon after a workout as you can.
The carb with protein is interesting, the big argument is the carbs increase IGF-1 which has been shown to be important for muscle building, however many bodybuilders now do keto diets and there is argument that the increase in IGF-1 is not a concern, there is argument each way but ultimately both people end up growing muscle so I don't think it matters either way. Diet probably has little effect on the resulting gains here based on one factor.

You need carbs when you have depleted the stores but whether they are needed in a certain ratio it seems to not matter in the real world.

Secondly the protein absorption rate is interesting. I don't think it ultimately matters. There are studies showing that meal timing does not matter and that if you get all your calories from one meal or 6 has no change on weight because ultimately your body is processing it. The evidence is scattered. Yes the excess will be stored as fat but if you than don't eat for a period of time GH increases which protects lean mass and the body burns fat.

Ultimately I am not convinced that the body only absorbs 20-30grams per meals because due to digestion rates its all going to change. Equally you would need to follow the body and find out if true what happens to the excess, if store as fat is it than broken down later for the fuel needed? while muscles are not broken at all. In which case meal timing again does not matter.

I however still see value in meal timing personally but there is lots of conflicting information out there now with fasting diets.

As you noted thought and I agree most of the supplement industry is marketing and even than its directed at bodybuilders in extreme cases. If you just eat right and workout you will get what you want.

edit.
IGF-1 has good and bad sides to it. Have a research and you will quickly be up to date
 
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AussieBen

Likes Bikes
I don't use protein shams...I mean shakes. Like someone said already, you can get plenty of protein from chickens & fish. They can shake with the best of them, specially fish...but more of a flop than a shake

Also, as Scooby's golden rule, "don't drink your calories!" :hand: http://scoobysworkshop.com/lose-fat-the-easy-way/

He will also have wisdom on protein shams...I mean shakes somewhere in his Youtube channel.

No need to thanks me for saving you $1,000's of dollars either.

P.S. if you have bigorexia, some form of anobolic steriods (medically prescribed of course) I would imagine to be 100x cheaper and 100x more effective in the long run.
 

sundy

Likes Dirt
Thanks for the input guys.
I'm only having protein shakes straight after a training session. I know that the protein without the training does nothing, although that would be cool if it worked :)
And yes, price per dose does figure in my choice of product.
 

rsquared

Likes Dirt
Yes, to add to my post, real is always better. Increasing your protein intake across your whole diet can help. Make friends with cottage cheese, tofu, oats, chicken, fish, nuts, eggs, milk, yoghurt etc etc.

If you don't have a chicken breast or snapper tucked into your training bag that you can eat within 30 minutes or so of your workout then a protein shake can be a convenient means of getting that nutrition you need though.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
Thanks for the input guys.
I'm only having protein shakes straight after a training session. I know that the protein without the training does nothing, although that would be cool if it worked :)
And yes, price per dose does figure in my choice of product.
If you are looking at price per protein gram in case you don't know how to do it here's the long run down which also shows protein %
Lets say the product has;
60serves per container
24grams of protein per serve
serving size 30grams
cost $100

To find the purity you divide the protein by the dose x 100.
24g/30g X 100 = 80% protein per serve

(commonly people think the product that say 100% whey means its all whey, all that means is that the protein added is 100% whey)

Cost per serve, price / serve
100/60 = $1.67 per serve

Cost per Protein gram protein x serves = overall protein, price/ overall protein
24 x 60 = 1440
100/1440 = $0.069 per gram

Or

Serve $ / protein per serve

1.67 / 24 = $0.069 per gram

This works if you are looking at protein. But product quality also involves the process they use to get the protein, the type of product they obtain protein from, the amino acid rating, ingredients and the pdcaas. It depends if you are concerned with anything else. Or you just want protein and you don't care about the rest.

Basically what are you looking for or not for in the product?
 
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sukebe

Likes Dirt
Need a 3:1 carbs:protein ratio for optimum absorption, best consumed within 15mins of finshing workout. Standard chocolate milk (big m etc) is the go - if its good enough for the AIS its good enough for me!
 

mtb101

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Need a 3:1 carbs:protein ratio for optimum absorption, best consumed within 15mins of finshing workout. Standard chocolate milk (big m etc) is the go - if its good enough for the AIS its good enough for me!
+1 I go smoothie - 3 bananas, milo, milk fast to digest and all you need. save your money on the powered stuff and buy bike parts and enter events.

I do use endura for hydration. everything else can be from normal foods.

some of the powdered stuff aren't healthy if you look at where its made etc. stick with natural products you'll be better off in the long run.

yes you need nutrition, but what you really need is a good watts/kg power output, so no use taking stuff if you're overweight or have bad eating habits.
 

rsquared

Likes Dirt
Have just finished my 2 day ASCA Strength and Conditioning course this weekend. Today's coach was a Level 3 S&C coach (you have to apply to even be accepted to this Level 3 course - check out the requirements on the website but basically 3+ years coaching national level teams or above), represented the Australian association as an invited speaker at the UK S&C conference last year as well as coming from an exercise physiology background. Basically, he knew his stuff!

I asked the specific question around recovery nutrition, ratio of carb/protein and the importance of the intake window. He said anywhere around 2:1 Carb/Protein and get it in as soon as possible. I'll take his word for it.

He was a supporter of the chocolate milk as a cheap easy option also.

For endurance athletes, he said there have also been studies or research done around the importance of fat intake on top of carb/protein as their insulin sensitivity actually drops significantly after a long event.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
Have just finished my 2 day ASCA Strength and Conditioning course this weekend. Today's coach was a Level 3 S&C coach (you have to apply to even be accepted to this Level 3 course - check out the requirements on the website but basically 3+ years coaching national level teams or above), represented the Australian association as an invited speaker at the UK S&C conference last year as well as coming from an exercise physiology background. Basically, he knew his stuff!

I asked the specific question around recovery nutrition, ratio of carb/protein and the importance of the intake window. He said anywhere around 2:1 Carb/Protein and get it in as soon as possible. I'll take his word for it.

He was a supporter of the chocolate milk as a cheap easy option also.

For endurance athletes, he said there have also been studies or research done around the importance of fat intake on top of carb/protein as their insulin sensitivity actually drops significantly after a long event.
Good stuff.
I think his a solid source of information. I know some people do have legitimate studies about the post exercise nutrition but I cant argue for or against them as I have no idea where said information is so cant look at the studies. Where did you do the Strength and conditions course. I have seriously wanted to get into one myself.

cheers
 

cameron_15

Eats Squid
I remember reading a study not that long ago (a few months back) that found that post workout meal timing doesn't really matter that much, so long as you have adequate intake of energy and nutrients in your diet and consume them within a few hours of working out.

Whatever the case may be, I eat immediately (within 30 mins) after workouts because I'm hungry!

regarding protein powder, I just buy whatever the cheapest WPC (I'm not convinced WPI is worth the extra $'s) is online at the time i'm buying. If I can get 5kg's (approx 150-160 shakes) of the stuff for less than $100 I'm really happy. Works out dirt cheap compared to the cost of chicken breast/steak/tuna/fish as a source of protein and it's easy to keep at the office etc.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
I remember reading a study not that long ago (a few months back) that found that post workout meal timing doesn't really matter that much, so long as you have adequate intake of energy and nutrients in your diet and consume them within a few hours of working out.

Whatever the case may be, I eat immediately (within 30 mins) after workouts because I'm hungry!

regarding protein powder, I just buy whatever the cheapest WPC (I'm not convinced WPI is worth the extra $'s) is online at the time i'm buying. If I can get 5kg's (approx 150-160 shakes) of the stuff for less than $100 I'm really happy. Works out dirt cheap compared to the cost of chicken breast/steak/tuna/fish as a source of protein and it's easy to keep at the office etc.
If protein absorption rate is a concern than isolate is a better protein but does protein rate matter?
Those who say you need a ratio of P:C ASAP would argue that yes it matters.

On the flip there does appear to be lots of evidence that meal timing and all that rate stuff means nothing. I am not 100% convinced as I have not looked into it all and there are some functions that I question in the body.

I will add
Isolates tend to be more pure and easier to digest so those with lactose intolerance may have better luck with them. The obvious answer is eat something that is not milk derived however milk is shown to be a great source. Pure concentrates tend to be lower protein percentage wise. This is where the $ per Protein grams is good. Concentrates are most definitely cheaper, most products that are reasonable tend to be a mix of concentrate and isolate.

If you don't have issue with concentrates and the product is good quality for sure it's the cheaper option.

I definitely am not convinced about hydrolysed though that stuff is crazy expensive and I can't see any reason to use it unless you have issues digesting other sources. I will also note that your pre workout nutrition is probably more important as that food will be digested and already broken down for fuel.

I actually have a pre workout shake before lifting but not one after.
Or I'll have half before and then the rest mid way through lifting
 

Mywifesirrational

I however am very normal. Trust me.
Far bit of broscience appearing in this thread :nono:

Ultimately I am not convinced that the body only absorbs 20-30grams per meals because due to digestion rates its all going to change.
Only thing is digestion rates have no effect on protein uptake.

It's not measured at the gut, it's measured at the muscle, proteins are actively transported via the blood stream and then uptaked into the working muscle. There is a finite supply of these transport ions and they can only work at a give pace, and yes exercise, particularly resistive training stimulates them. Only two labs in the world can do this and they don't waste their time or funding on sports performance, but their data appears to corralate to sports performance very well.

You don't need much in the way of carbs with protein post exercise, this 3:1 isn't supported by science. Pre and post work out intakes is a load of crap, intake as soon as possible is a load of crap anything out towards 2 hours is excellent.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19056590
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20519362
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18535123
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12217881
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18056791
 
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