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Thread: "natural body building supplements" vs anabolics

  1. #81
    Senior Member Mywifesirrational's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cameron_15 View Post
    Day 1 - Heavy Bench press (work up to 3 reps as heavy as we can, then drop down to do some more volume sets), 3x8 OHP, Super sets barbell row and pull ups, then some accessory lifts (Dips, flys, rear delts, maybe some machines)

    Day 2 - Deadlifts - heavy + lots of sets, calves and biceps

    Day 3 - Heavy back (barbell rows, to at least max bench press weight), more pullups (weighted), bench press (maybe pause reps/higher rep sets), OHP and some other shoulder excercises + tricep pull downs

    Day 4 - Random leg day - Front squats, lunges, calves, some more biceps work

    Day 5 - Heavy shoulders, Bench press, supersets of barbell rows and pullups, more accessory lifts

    Day 6 - Heavy Squats, calves and biceps

    Day 7 - Rest (bikes!)
    This is a weird schizophrenic program I am struggling to make sense of, with a weird over-focus on biceps in this program, many accessory muscles are being used nearly every day. Rest periods between training are when muscles grow, not during the actual training.

    Issues:

    Legs – Mon/Wed/Fri
    You say heavy, your heavy might be different to my heavy, or you’re a beginner (low load), or perhaps you’re on the gear.
    48 hours between leg sessions is not long enough to recover if it is an actual heavy session, 3-4 days (64+ hrs) is the norm. But volume or intensity will dictate this to a large degree. A longer break between retraining legs, means more hypertrophy and strength more is not better.

    Biceps:…
    You realise you are training biceps on Mon (rows / pullups), and on Tues (biceps), and in Weds (pullups), and on Thurs (biceps), and on Fri (rows and pullups), and sat (Biceps), and I wager some sneaky bike curls on Sun.
    If you train the same muscle every day, it gets a little bigger then it completely plateaus, it also pre-fatigues the muscle, so in compound lifts, its able to lift less weight, resulting in less load on the primary agonist, which is gets less ‘gainz’ because of this.

    Shoulders:
    You may have put these in a random order, but Fri, shoulders prior to bench press? Delts is an accessory muscle to bench, you do this after the main compound lift. Post. Delt, is also working everytime you do bicep curls, and deadlifts, pullups, its not getting any rest in this program.

    Triceps:
    Why do triceps on a back day (wed)? It compliments bench, although you aren’t doing bench the next day which is good.

    Heavy back day after a deadlift day:
    Both days are using many of the same muscles, the spinal muscles get flogged (in a good way) from deadlifts, and upper back is used heavily in deadlifs, barbell rows the following day is an issue.

    Cycling:
    Why do heavy squatting the day before cycling? Aerobic activity attenuates protein synthesis from resistance training, this is called concurrent training. You’re only getting 24hrs tops of growth when you could be getting >48 hrs for the same effort.
    Maybe modify program to do upper body the day before.
    Quote Originally Posted by jarrod839 View Post
    All three were not wearing neckbraces and its all most impossible to determine if paul and sams outcomes would of being different if they were wearing one.
    Agree completely, there is no evidence!

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by safreek View Post
    man up so the family and myself can be proud, job will be achieved at 100kg
    Is something your family have stipulated as a requirement for them becoming proud of you?

  3. #83
    Senior Member cameron_15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mywifesirrational View Post
    This is a weird schizophrenic program I am struggling to make sense of, with a weird over-focus on biceps in this program, many accessory muscles are being used nearly every day. Rest periods between training are when muscles grow, not during the actual training.

    Issues:

    Legs – Mon/Wed/Fri
    You say heavy, your heavy might be different to my heavy, or you’re a beginner (low load), or perhaps you’re on the gear.
    48 hours between leg sessions is not long enough to recover if it is an actual heavy session, 3-4 days (64+ hrs) is the norm. But volume or intensity will dictate this to a large degree. A longer break between retraining legs, means more hypertrophy and strength more is not better.

    Biceps:…
    You realise you are training biceps on Mon (rows / pullups), and on Tues (biceps), and in Weds (pullups), and on Thurs (biceps), and on Fri (rows and pullups), and sat (Biceps), and I wager some sneaky bike curls on Sun.
    If you train the same muscle every day, it gets a little bigger then it completely plateaus, it also pre-fatigues the muscle, so in compound lifts, its able to lift less weight, resulting in less load on the primary agonist, which is gets less ‘gainz’ because of this.

    Shoulders:
    You may have put these in a random order, but Fri, shoulders prior to bench press? Delts is an accessory muscle to bench, you do this after the main compound lift. Post. Delt, is also working everytime you do bicep curls, and deadlifts, pullups, its not getting any rest in this program.

    Triceps:
    Why do triceps on a back day (wed)? It compliments bench, although you aren’t doing bench the next day which is good.

    Heavy back day after a deadlift day:
    Both days are using many of the same muscles, the spinal muscles get flogged (in a good way) from deadlifts, and upper back is used heavily in deadlifs, barbell rows the following day is an issue.

    Cycling:
    Why do heavy squatting the day before cycling? Aerobic activity attenuates protein synthesis from resistance training, this is called concurrent training. You’re only getting 24hrs tops of growth when you could be getting >48 hrs for the same effort.
    Maybe modify program to do upper body the day before.

    There's definitely a few mistakes in the above, we certainly don't do deadlifts and heavy back on consecutive days.

    Regarding Legs, my heavy is 160kg's for squats and 210kg's for deadlifts. On these days we start with sets of 5 and progressively increase from there, with the heaviest set being 2 to 3 reps. The mid-week leg day is usually front squats or box squats at 100kg's 3x8 or 3x8 lunges.

    Biceps are thrown in with legs as we weren't training those in isolation at all and on some days we don't train them due to fitting workouts around study and other commitments. In my previous workout split biceps were done on back day.

    I do train shoulders before bench once per week with OHP followed by bench. On these days we'll again work up to a max set of 2 or 3 reps, then follow it up with bench press for 3x8. Consistently benching first made it hard to progress my OHP for months, when we do OHP first we can hit heavier weights.

    I sneak in a mountain bike ride wherever I can - it's rarely once a week and more like once a month at the moment :( I take any chance I can get!

    I do welcome your feedback though and will acknowledge that my workouts are a little ad hoc. The main premise is to spend a good amount of time performing the compound lift at the start. Do you think it'd be better to revert back to a more traditional Chest/back/legs split?


  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by cameron_15 View Post
    Do you think it'd be better to revert back to a more traditional Chest/back/legs split?
    I'd say it's time to revert back to more time riding...

  5. #85
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    Well I was out walking Burt this morning and it suddenly dawned on me that I am choking my body foodwise.. I eat well from around 11ish but from 10 or 11 at night to 11 in the morning all I have is a bowl of cereal with almond milk and a proto shake, well under 500 calories, feel quite mongish actually. More gains coming me thinks.

    To those wondering why I am doing this on a MTB site instead of a bodybuilding site, well everyone on bb sites have a different idea of what works, on this.site most only comment with proper knowledge. Also this should allow non bodybuilders to see what changes you can achieve even in your 50s, my determination to prove building a big solid body is easily attainable without steroids ( I will let you know if I go that path, just fair I think).
    To be honest the 100kg mark is only a goal for me, the family won't disown me if I don't get there (I will)

    Have also been inspired by a bloke in his 20s, he started out at 70kg around 3 years ago (3kg more than me, same height)and benches 130, I intend on.beating this young pup by march at the latest, how is this possible you ask, well to be honest I don't feel like my test levels have gone down as much as they should, or else how is it possible to be catching up so quickly to a youngster.
    People can use whatever excuses they want as they get older but the plain fact is laziness holds them back more than anything

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by safreek View Post
    on this.site most only comment with proper knowledge.
    You really should read more of what's on this forum.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by safreek View Post
    Well I was out walking Burt this morning and it suddenly dawned on me that I am choking my body foodwise.. I eat well from around 11ish but from 10 or 11 at night to 11 in the morning all I have is a bowl of cereal with almond milk and a proto shake, well under 500 calories, feel quite mongish actually. More gains coming me thinks.

    To those wondering why I am doing this on a MTB site instead of a bodybuilding site, well everyone on bb sites have a different idea of what works, on this.site most only comment with proper knowledge. Also this should allow non bodybuilders to see what changes you can achieve even in your 50s, my determination to prove building a big solid body is easily attainable without steroids ( I will let you know if I go that path, just fair I think).
    To be honest the 100kg mark is only a goal for me, the family won't disown me if I don't get there (I will)

    Have also been inspired by a bloke in his 20s, he started out at 70kg around 3 years ago (3kg more than me, same height)and benches 130, I intend on.beating this young pup by march at the latest, how is this possible you ask, well to be honest I don't feel like my test levels have gone down as much as they should, or else how is it possible to be catching up so quickly to a youngster.
    People can use whatever excuses they want as they get older but the plain fact is laziness holds them back more than anything
    I think you have to work out what you're trying to prove, who you're trying to prove it to and why you're trying to prove it. Sounds like it goes much deeper than an interest in weightlifting.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by rednightmare View Post
    I think you have to work out what you're trying to prove, who you're trying to prove it to and why you're trying to prove it. Sounds like it goes much deeper than an interest in weightlifting.
    Nar. Not really. No difference than people posting photos of their bikes and.telling people how their day was when they went mtbing today
    I think that you are seeing too much in it.
    If I can get one lazy fuck to change their lives, job done. I also ride bikes, maybe that is a substitute penis, I don't know. Don't over think think things dude

  9. #89
    Vealcake
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    Quote Originally Posted by rednightmare View Post
    I think you have to work out what you're trying to prove, who you're trying to prove it to and why you're trying to prove it. Sounds like it goes much deeper than an interest in weightlifting.
    But yes I am intent on smashing through past the gains of the young pup

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