schneller schneller
Likes Dirt
Thanks for posting this, his work is amazing.
Video makers 'post here'
- Thread starter STRETCH JP
- Start date
Thanks for posting this, his work is amazing.
Nick53
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Hey guys,
Is there any particular reason as to why people shoot a mix of 50p/60p and 24p on DSLR's? Why not just shoot it all at 50p/60p? If I had to guess it would be that the 24p would gave it a more natural feel in things such as interviews and the like. How much of a difference does it make. Seems like a fair big pain to conform all the clips to 24p that's all.
In other news I am now close to being bankrupt. This makes me sad.
Is there any particular reason as to why people shoot a mix of 50p/60p and 24p on DSLR's? Why not just shoot it all at 50p/60p? If I had to guess it would be that the 24p would gave it a more natural feel in things such as interviews and the like. How much of a difference does it make. Seems like a fair big pain to conform all the clips to 24p that's all.
In other news I am now close to being bankrupt. This makes me sad.
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Likes Dirt
24 looks more "cinematic". I watched a ski movie ('CLAIM') where they had shot half half, but leaving the 50 footage at 50 and it genuinely did look awful (despite being the sickest ski movie ever). I think people just shoot 50/60 for slo-mo (mainly). Far as I'm aware anyways
Get the camera yet?
Get the camera yet?
Nick53
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Ahh alright then, I'll just look at lots and lots of sample videos that are shot in different frame rates and decide from there.
Ummm as of 5 minutes ago:
-the body and lens are in Lantau Island, Hong Kong. The scheduled arrival date being the 17th (so much for 1-3 days delivery, I ordered it on the 8th). Didn't go anywhere for a few days but it's moving around everywhere at the moment...who knows what's going on.
-all of the extra stuff from 'BH Photo Video' is in Louisville, Kentucky (US) and has an expected arrival date on the 16th.
-the audio stuff I bought from 'Lamba' should be arriving on the 16th also.
Keeeeeeeeeen
Ummm as of 5 minutes ago:
-the body and lens are in Lantau Island, Hong Kong. The scheduled arrival date being the 17th (so much for 1-3 days delivery, I ordered it on the 8th). Didn't go anywhere for a few days but it's moving around everywhere at the moment...who knows what's going on.
-all of the extra stuff from 'BH Photo Video' is in Louisville, Kentucky (US) and has an expected arrival date on the 16th.
-the audio stuff I bought from 'Lamba' should be arriving on the 16th also.
Keeeeeeeeeen
Gluey_trails
Likes Dirt
I shoot 24 mostly, but when I have a slow-mo shot in mind I will shoot at the highest frame rate I can. This does limit the quality, but I am only uploading Web videos and full 1080p videos are just stupid.
Also, BH photo fucked up my shipping for my steadicam, i paid the extra to get it express. It took 21 days (not the 3-5 days)
EDIT:
[video=vimeo;16806418]http://vimeo.com/16806418[/video]
And a little video I was playing with.
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downhillar
Likes Dirt
woah gluey, that was funky!
Downhill Domination
Captyvate Media
Will, what exactly did you do to that clip? It was.. unique?
Not sure whether I like the effect or not.
Not sure whether I like the effect or not.
Mitch.Pierias
Likes Dirt
Stabilized to the goggles.
Looked like you shot in 50p as well and then exported/uploaded in 50p?
Gluey_trails
Likes Dirt
Shot in 24p, should have been edited in 24p, but I might have fucked it up (I'm not very competent with AE yet.
Dreggsy
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Also there are 2 "standards" of video
You have what we see here on the PAL version at 25 FPS
and then there's NTSC @ 30 FPS
then theres 24 FPS which is what FILM cameras shoot at
there's a whole heap of techno babble that goes with this but with the advent of all these new
plasma , led TV's, digitalism, it all seems a bit redundant
In regards to frame rates
On DSLR's there is a trade off. Generally shoot at 25p, if you wanna do nice slowmo's then shoot 50p or 60p. The downside of shooting 50/60p is it's not full HD. It's 720p rather than 1080p. So while your slowmo's will be smoother, you loose resolution. Also, the aliasing is much worse at 720p.
On DSLR's there is a trade off. Generally shoot at 25p, if you wanna do nice slowmo's then shoot 50p or 60p. The downside of shooting 50/60p is it's not full HD. It's 720p rather than 1080p. So while your slowmo's will be smoother, you loose resolution. Also, the aliasing is much worse at 720p.
Dreggsy
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Also there are 2 "standards" of video
You have what we see here on the PAL version at 25 FPS
and then there's NTSC @ 30 FPS
then theres 24 FPS which is what FILM cameras shoot at
there's a whole heap of techno babble that goes with this but with the advent of all these new
plasma , led TV's, digitalism, it all seems a bit redundant
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Likes Dirt
workflow tips
Aight, so I'm (starting) to use both after effects (titles, etc) and premiere pro to edit stuff in, but truth be told I'm not sure what I should be doing when (color correction/etc, like do I do color correction before editing and titles or like a final step before I'm finished the whole thing? And what program is best for each? That kinda deal). When I do titles and such in After effects, I render the file, but if I want to keep 1920x1080, how do I make it around the same size as the source file? I dont understand how AE puts an extra 300MB on a 6 second video clip...
General tips would be appreciated, I'm fatty n00b at editing right now.
Aight, so I'm (starting) to use both after effects (titles, etc) and premiere pro to edit stuff in, but truth be told I'm not sure what I should be doing when (color correction/etc, like do I do color correction before editing and titles or like a final step before I'm finished the whole thing? And what program is best for each? That kinda deal). When I do titles and such in After effects, I render the file, but if I want to keep 1920x1080, how do I make it around the same size as the source file? I dont understand how AE puts an extra 300MB on a 6 second video clip...
General tips would be appreciated, I'm fatty n00b at editing right now.
Nick53
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Hmm well is there a great difference in the image between 24 and 25p? Just thinking and it would in reality make a lot more sense to shoot in 50i and 25p in 720p as the frame rate conversation would be somewhat easier oui? What frame rate timelime would be best to edit and export with?
At the moment I'm thinking of just shooting all the action stuff in 50i and then the lifestyle styled shots in 25p. All in 720p.
Very interested to know about the aliasing problem however and how they compare in the different resolutions.
EDIT: Jake Lucas is this you? Was just wondering as it was at a race in Victoria and the person seems to have a similar set up.
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Re. 24p vs 50/60p:
Q:Why not just shoot 50/60p all the time?
The advantage of shooting 50/60 all the time is that you can choose what to slow down, and what to keep at normal speed. Converting these frames to to fullspeed 24p is relatively straightforward. If you shoot 50p and convert it to 25p, then you just cut out half the frames. It's still proper 25p. 60p - 24p is basically the same principle. (although it would be great if cameras shot native 48p) In this way there is no reason not to shoot everything at 50/60p
However, if you remember, there is only a certain amount of data a camera can record per second. If you are recording at 50p, and then converting down to 25p, you are throwing away half your video information.
if a camera can only record 42mbps, then @ 50p, you divide that by 50 to work out how much data you can squeeze into a single frame.
If you shoot natively at 25p, then you are getting twice as much data through the codec, as you aren't 'throwing away' the wasted frames. The image is less compressed, and is easier to modify in post as it has more information.
Having said that, if you shoot at 720p 50p, then since there are less pixels, you get more data. shoot at 1080p 25p, more pixels and a thinner spread of data.
The differences are pretty hard to notice, so if in doubt, shoot it all at 50/60p.
Additionally, going from 60-24p vs native 24p, the 'look' is very slightly different. 24p will look more like native film framerate.
Q:Why not just shoot 50/60p all the time?
The advantage of shooting 50/60 all the time is that you can choose what to slow down, and what to keep at normal speed. Converting these frames to to fullspeed 24p is relatively straightforward. If you shoot 50p and convert it to 25p, then you just cut out half the frames. It's still proper 25p. 60p - 24p is basically the same principle. (although it would be great if cameras shot native 48p) In this way there is no reason not to shoot everything at 50/60p
However, if you remember, there is only a certain amount of data a camera can record per second. If you are recording at 50p, and then converting down to 25p, you are throwing away half your video information.
if a camera can only record 42mbps, then @ 50p, you divide that by 50 to work out how much data you can squeeze into a single frame.
If you shoot natively at 25p, then you are getting twice as much data through the codec, as you aren't 'throwing away' the wasted frames. The image is less compressed, and is easier to modify in post as it has more information.
Having said that, if you shoot at 720p 50p, then since there are less pixels, you get more data. shoot at 1080p 25p, more pixels and a thinner spread of data.
The differences are pretty hard to notice, so if in doubt, shoot it all at 50/60p.
Additionally, going from 60-24p vs native 24p, the 'look' is very slightly different. 24p will look more like native film framerate.
Dreggsy
Likes Bikes and Dirt
ok, you want to do all your colour correction once your finished and happy with your final edit, that said you will have your titles done seperately to your "final edit".
also there are 2 types of colour correction
The first is called colour timing, this is where you adjust your highlights, shadow, mid-tones, gamma and gain of all your clip to look like they were all shot at the same time of day.
The other is called a colour grade where you will give your clip a certain colour "Feel"
as seen in movies like the matrix, the aviator and Sin city, Children of men just to name a few.
your file sized depends on which CODEC you are exporting to, all have their pros and cons.
personally I would go for
if your on a mac
an uncompressed .mov (quicktime)
if your on a PC .tga sequence or if your a bit limited for HDD space a .png sequence ( both of these can also hold alpha channels) whereas the .mov file wont,afaik.
for more help try creativecow.net, videocopilot.com
there should be dayd and days of reading there for you
hope that helps
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Likes Dirt
Thanks man,
I should have said that I meant titles that are motion-tracked to a point in the footage (names of riders for instance), but yep that all makes sense.
.movs are working fine (W7 and quicktime installed), just massive filesize, my computer can't handle like 400MB in 10 seconds hahah. Will try out sequences though.
Off to read now....
Oliver. said:
Doesn't quite work that way.
The differences in compression are not worth worrying about between 25p and 50p. 25p in a DSLR has twice as much resolution as 720p but refreshed half as frequently. 720p has almost half the resolution but refreshed twice as frequently. The codec is working slighty differently but you shouldn't base your decision on what frame rate to shoot on the compression differences. The results between the two are negligible and there are more important factors.
Also, don't think that because we live in a PAL country you have to shoot in 50p or 25p. PAL and NTSC relate to a colour system that does not apply to HD video when progressive. Yes, I would generally shoot 25p or 50p but for a better slow mo feel free to shoot at 60p.
As I mentioned, DSLR use a rather crude form of line skipping to downsample from their large 15-20MP sensors to the rather low red HD video we shoot. This crude dowsample gets noticeably worse when shooting at 720p.
Do a test and use what's suits best. Unless you have a camera that shoots 1920x1080 50p (top end cam) then there will always be a trade off. You need to decide what that trade off is.
Dreggsy
Likes Bikes and Dirt
you can do this in AE fairly easily, provided you have the information
IN AE you can matchmove your titles to your footage given your stabilization information.
it's too long winded for me to post here, but what you want to do is create 2 x tracking points with position, scale and rotation turned on, then you link this information to your titles.
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Likes Dirt
Don't worry, I got that all sussed out. Even did a bit of matchmoving with 3D objects made in Maya (actually look like it was originally in the scene). It's just the sequence of what I do in which programs that was bugging me out a bit as I wasn't so sure what's the most efficient way of doing it. Thanks for help though, that color correction stuff was spot on what I needed