Yes, how crazy is that? I simply want to join my local club to do social rides etc but I have to fork out money to MTBA as well.
MTBA AGM- presidential vote
- Thread starter frenchie
- Start date
leftieant
Likes Bikes and Dirt
This probably needs a little clarification. If you wish to join a club via the MTBA site, yes you need to buy the race (or social) licence.
Howver it is my understanding that you can still approach a club directly and join without having to be a member of MTBA.
Someone please correct me if this is wrong.
Akashra,
As I see it it I have complied with all relevant legislation in terms of declaring potential pecuniary interest (the associations incorporated act 1991 section 65). MTBA currently contracts my company Dirt Art to deliver TD services to the National Series- this is not something I have attempted to hide.
In terms of a real world answer; I believe I can complete both roles successfully- though this would ultimately be up to the incoming committee to decide. Thus I would not be intending to step down immediately. Perhaps the administration of the role may require reworking, though this is certainly not difficult to adjust. I am currently contracted for the role, not withstanding any performance issues (for which there is none that I am aware of), I have declared that contract, why then should this contract be terminated?
As I see it it I have complied with all relevant legislation in terms of declaring potential pecuniary interest (the associations incorporated act 1991 section 65). MTBA currently contracts my company Dirt Art to deliver TD services to the National Series- this is not something I have attempted to hide.
In terms of a real world answer; I believe I can complete both roles successfully- though this would ultimately be up to the incoming committee to decide. Thus I would not be intending to step down immediately. Perhaps the administration of the role may require reworking, though this is certainly not difficult to adjust. I am currently contracted for the role, not withstanding any performance issues (for which there is none that I am aware of), I have declared that contract, why then should this contract be terminated?
Unfortunately frensham consideration must be given for the people organising the ride- they need to be protected from a potential law suit if you were to injure yourself on a ride organised by an incorporated body. This is the result of the litigious society we live in, it is not really the fault of MTBA.
skwiz05
Likes Bikes and Dirt
So if its all so cheap then: why is the next Vic DH series event charging $40 for a day Liscense?;
From the website:
Round 4 of the 2010-2011 Victorian Downhill Mountain Bike Series
YOU MUST PICK UP YOUR NEW SEEDED RACE PLATE AT EVERY VDHS EVENT
Online registration is now available through You Yangs MTB Inc website, just head to their site and click on the link to register.
Note: The cost of a day license is $40, however you can only pay $20 via the online link, the other $20 will need to be paid at rego at the event. (previously $30 but ALL MTBA fees increased from the 1st January). Also note, the day licence does not offer the same insurance coverage as a full membership does. Get yourself an MTBA membership from one of our supporting clubs.
Ambulance cover is also HIGHLY recommended
Ha, Im liscenced through the Value added ADCC Defence option, and I only paid $60 for the year. But $40 for one event? Come on........And then theres the actual entry fee........
harmonix1234
Eats Squid
Same, I just started riding with a bunch down my way doing casual social rides on the local roads and was told I had to join bicycle NSW to be a 'member' of the group. That's a $95 membership just to hit the tarmac. Which I ride for free if I ride solo anyway. Off topic though, non MTB related.
BTW - My vote is with Simon. I spent the last two years in Tassie and saw first hand the positive influence and work that he has done for the greater cycling community. His dedication to the sport, recreation, and advocacy and the momentum he has created can only be commended.
I have ridden first hand the trails that he has had a major role developing and they are truly world class sustainable networks which are laying the foundations for the future of our sport to bloom.
I also volunteered a while back at the nationals in Hobart and I can vouch for his professionalism and commitment the the greater overall picture that makes up the mountain biking culture. He is focussed, dedicated, experienced, and lives and breathes every aspect of this great sport.
Thanks to the work he has done locally, the non mountain biking community such as City Council and the general public have begun to embrace and support mountain biking as a legitimate and positive recreation and have backed the sport that was once seen by the greater 'green' Tasmanian community as a destructive and unsustainable menace to the local flora and fauna.
Simon has really done some great work down there, and he has changed the face of mountain biking to a large community. For the better. Permanently.
Hat's off.
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So why is it I have a plethora of choices joining Bicycle User Groups without having to give money to CA? Surely local clubs can organise their own public liability insurance?
akashra
Eats Squid
Two things:
- You DO NOT have to join MTBA to become a member of a club, unless that club only accepts membership by way of MTBA memberships. For example, I have my MTBA membership with one club, and am also a member of another club for the purpose of having a CA license.
- I had a discussion with the DH guys about charging a day license for both days, or higher fees, etc - originally they weren't aware that a 'day' license covers you for up to five days of a single event, and (with the discussion I had) the wording was going to be changed such that it's not "$30 for a day license" but "an additional $15 for non-members, plus $15 for a day license", as there were issues with charging a value other than $15 for the actual day license. (this is back when it was $15).
Either way, they wanted to charge more specifically because they wanted to encourage riders to be members.
Personally - I have no problem with what they're trying to do, it's just the wording is a little bit 'ugh'.
Personally, I would have no argument if a policy was introduced that you can't participate in state level events without a full license. Day licenses kinda should be for club level racing, IMO.
- You DO NOT have to join MTBA to become a member of a club, unless that club only accepts membership by way of MTBA memberships. For example, I have my MTBA membership with one club, and am also a member of another club for the purpose of having a CA license.
- I had a discussion with the DH guys about charging a day license for both days, or higher fees, etc - originally they weren't aware that a 'day' license covers you for up to five days of a single event, and (with the discussion I had) the wording was going to be changed such that it's not "$30 for a day license" but "an additional $15 for non-members, plus $15 for a day license", as there were issues with charging a value other than $15 for the actual day license. (this is back when it was $15).
Either way, they wanted to charge more specifically because they wanted to encourage riders to be members.
Personally - I have no problem with what they're trying to do, it's just the wording is a little bit 'ugh'.
Personally, I would have no argument if a policy was introduced that you can't participate in state level events without a full license. Day licenses kinda should be for club level racing, IMO.
skwiz05
Likes Bikes and Dirt
So just who is getting the extra $15? The club organising the event? MTBA? Someones back pocket?
And everyone pays the $90 or so event fee.......whats it to you if someone has a full liscence or buys a day liscence. Shouldnt matter to the club running the event. Why charge the extra ( seemingly unjustified) fee to "encourage" you to buy a full liscense? Best way I see to "discourage" people from coming to an event. Is this against MTBA policy?
Does the day liscence just cover one day, or the event?
swanny
Likes Dirt
AS for the Day License fee for the Vic DH Series. This is something that has been done to specifically encourage FULL MEMBERSHIP for any interested people. It is quite clear that Full Membership is far more beneficial from at least an insurance point of view. Our series is 100% Club run and volunteer based so we really want to see the Clubs gaining members, who potentially become committee members, and then get their friends/families interested in racing and ultimately VOLUNTEERING. No one makes money out of our series except for the riders, so we need these volunteers. If we didnt care about membership, we wouldnt have any people to run the races = no races = no riders = no champions = no sponsorship = even less Australian bike industry = no fun for all!! You see, its the circle of life...........
Now, Iv been a MTBA member since the very start, and it certainly started of with great intentions, and still has them. Interestingly enough, some of the very issues and criticisms of MTBA today, are the very same ones that caused MTBA to be created in the beginning. So what happened????
Now I dont know either of the candidates for President very well, but whichever way you look at it, its a tough gig. As for Simon's Dirt Art company, there may be a conflict of interest, in plain terms, but surely Simon will know that he and his business will be scrutinized and watched very carefully if he is elected. If he starts rolling into races in his private helicopter, Im sure we can figure out whats going on. The issue at hand is, will the candidates of any role do the job to the best of their ability. Lets stop the criticism and and business bashing and get on with the job.
Trust me, i have learned a thing or two about perceived conflict of interest, and it is quite black and white. You have it or you dont. But the thing is, you can manage the situation properly and be open and transparent, and everyone will learn that your a good guy (if you are), cos if your not, it will be really obvious and people will be able to prove you are dishonest and conflicted, and your out. Lets face it, in the bike game, no one really makes any money anyway. Its a love job.
MTBA has a lot of ground to make up, its no walk in the park, I would like to help by putting my hand up to be the DH rider rep, if still available.
Matt.
Now, Iv been a MTBA member since the very start, and it certainly started of with great intentions, and still has them. Interestingly enough, some of the very issues and criticisms of MTBA today, are the very same ones that caused MTBA to be created in the beginning. So what happened????
Now I dont know either of the candidates for President very well, but whichever way you look at it, its a tough gig. As for Simon's Dirt Art company, there may be a conflict of interest, in plain terms, but surely Simon will know that he and his business will be scrutinized and watched very carefully if he is elected. If he starts rolling into races in his private helicopter, Im sure we can figure out whats going on. The issue at hand is, will the candidates of any role do the job to the best of their ability. Lets stop the criticism and and business bashing and get on with the job.
Trust me, i have learned a thing or two about perceived conflict of interest, and it is quite black and white. You have it or you dont. But the thing is, you can manage the situation properly and be open and transparent, and everyone will learn that your a good guy (if you are), cos if your not, it will be really obvious and people will be able to prove you are dishonest and conflicted, and your out. Lets face it, in the bike game, no one really makes any money anyway. Its a love job.
MTBA has a lot of ground to make up, its no walk in the park, I would like to help by putting my hand up to be the DH rider rep, if still available.
Matt.
skwiz05
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Well I accept that the intentions of this may be long term membership, but the reason that there is (or seemingly was) such a thing as a "cheap" day liscence, is partly to encourage the youngsters to try racing. I'd hate to be a parent whos kid is entering his first race to be paying $140 (or however slightly less kids fees are) for an event he isnt likely to be great at first time, or not enjoy and not come back to the sport cause its too expensive.
Yes i accept it costs to run an event, but Entry fees have been charged for that, this extra fee is just bull in my eyes. The liscensing fee is a separate issue to the event entry fee. I wonder if the "candidates " for MTBA presidency have a view on this? Its punishing people, or lets say, as is the catch word in this thread, "perceived dishonest misdirection of inappropriately charges LISCENCE fees"......
Next there will be a surchage because Im not a member of the Host club? Want to encourage me to be a member of that too? Oh hell, why not charge me $100 for a day liscence.....oh wait....that is a full years MTBA liscense...
Can anybody here (including any MTBA commitee) not see something wrong with this strategy?
A.G.Thomas
Banned
I want the job the money and the title
Akashra AKA Mr Timothy Rowe
Any employee answers to an executive. A board of management in MTBA's case 15,16 or 17? people, so the reality is that not one committee member is in control.
A president of any incorportated association does not boss around the executive, so a I am ya boss and you are my boss relationship does not exist. That's the real world and Rotorburners are smart enough not to be lead astray by unbased inuendo.
From memory, Mr Baker asked to be paid $40,000 as president MTBA - which has to make him an employee ergo he would then become answerable to the executive and boss of the executive according to your statements.
Of course Mr Baker can now state that this was defeated and that he no longer has this belief in his monetary value. Ah but he also slowed way way down on his plans so slow that .............. well I have not seen thousands of mountain bikers scrambling to join MTBA because of him.
Politicians often do back flips and I reckon that everyone of them loses much more than they gain. Trust and integrity sacrificed for a vote or two ............ I respect people who ...... are credible even if flawed in not agreeing with everything I think - lol.
Keep up the dancing .......... kids always enjoy a puppet show (and performing clowns) - but they can usually see who is pulling the strings. And mountain bikers have a great bullshit sniff meter.
Akashra AKA Mr Timothy Rowe
Ah talking about trolling.
Any employee answers to an executive. A board of management in MTBA's case 15,16 or 17? people, so the reality is that not one committee member is in control.
A president of any incorportated association does not boss around the executive, so a I am ya boss and you are my boss relationship does not exist. That's the real world and Rotorburners are smart enough not to be lead astray by unbased inuendo.
From memory, Mr Baker asked to be paid $40,000 as president MTBA - which has to make him an employee ergo he would then become answerable to the executive and boss of the executive according to your statements.
Of course Mr Baker can now state that this was defeated and that he no longer has this belief in his monetary value. Ah but he also slowed way way down on his plans so slow that .............. well I have not seen thousands of mountain bikers scrambling to join MTBA because of him.
Politicians often do back flips and I reckon that everyone of them loses much more than they gain. Trust and integrity sacrificed for a vote or two ............ I respect people who ...... are credible even if flawed in not agreeing with everything I think - lol.
Keep up the dancing .......... kids always enjoy a puppet show (and performing clowns) - but they can usually see who is pulling the strings. And mountain bikers have a great bullshit sniff meter.
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Australia
Likes Bikes and Dirt
So, you support Simon. Thats fine. He seems to be a likable guy, but there is no need to chew Tim's ear off for asking a reasonable question. Why not just say that you do not think that Mr French's status as a contractor used by the MTBA is not an issue with regard to his potential accession to the Presidency.
Personally, I agree that its not an issue - but thats my opinion.
-Andrew
DaGonz
Eats Squid
if it's anything like the NSW guys, it's because handling day licences and on the day entries is a pain in the arse. If you're going to go race in a state series, you should be an MTBA member anyway IMHO
Cheers
Spoonie
Day licences, I am unsure about, does the DH series go over two days? If so, maybe two day licences are required??
As for event fees, DH, if shuttles are provided, they are always expensive events. Unless there a tick box option that allows you to ride your rig uphill for another run!! Fees might be cheaper then!
Back on topic, I am a little annoyed that neither candiates have addressed questions regarding the recreational/participant MTB rider. Please address.
As for the president position, I applaud both Simon and Russ for sticking their hands up for it, lots of hours, travel, criticism and loss of personal time. Someone needs to do the job, however, the person doing that job needs to ask for, listen and ACT to their membership expectations.
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normdouglas
Likes Dirt
This topic actually came up in a Victoria Presidents meeting a little while ago. For the record, a DL covers you for the duration of an event... therefore technically there could be just one sold. However each race promotor can do as they please, unlike what happens in Road Cycling circles where CSV dictates what you can and can't do.
And... considering that the Vic DH series is probably one of the most successful series of any type in the country right now, I think they are entitled to do as best they see fit.
Norm Douglas
Vice President MTBA
Ergo nothing.
No different to the board of a public company being paid directors fees. They are not answerable to the executive, they are answerable to the shareholders (which in this case would be the members).
dinosaur_mtb
Likes Dirt
Maybe what is needed is for MTBA to become the representative body for all MTBers interested in racing, in all its guises and for all non racers be encouraged to join IMBA-aus. (Maybe when a MTB is sold at a bike shop to social only rider, that an IMBA membership is waved before the bike purchaser's eyes and persuasive encouragement of all the benefits that IMBA-aus is bringing to the recreational rider in trail advocacy etc ). IMB-aus would then become the body with the bigger political, trail advococy role and MTBA the body solely responsible for racing development. management etc. MTBA cannot hope to be all things to all people. So Russ probably needs to stop worrying about a membership drive for all those non or one or twice a year competition riders and to hand over the social, recreational riders to IMBA-aus.
thecat
NSWMTB, Central Tableland MBC
Yep absolutley but should they be encouraged to try their first race at a state or national level or should they be trying club level first?
I maintain it should be the latter.
In NSW we haven't allowed Day Licenses at State champs for several years. The last 2 years we haven't allowed Day Licenses at all at state level DH. Entry numbers have grown and events have run more smoothly.
DLs at state level really are a pain in the arse for clubs and, as I said, State level isn't the place to "try it out to see if you like it"
If young johnny wants to try racing to see if he likes it go to a club race and take out a "cheap" day license. be aware that it offers you pretty much no insurance at all. It's kind of like compulsory thrid party, it covers others against you but not yourself.
If little johnny wants to continue then buy a full license, MTBA now offer a discount off a yearly license if you've previously bought a DL.
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akashra
Eats Squid
I tend to agree with this stance - however to my knowledge there are no club level downhill races in Victoria, everything goes straight to state level. If these club level downhill races do exist, clearly I'm not aware of them - maybe they're like some kind of underground sport.
As said, I'm also not exactly against the idea of requiring a full license for state level racing.
Personally, I still like the BMXA model - you can't race state unless you race club, you can't race national unless you race state, and are nominated by your club, etc.