2012 Scott Spark 29er

Jubas

Likes Dirt
Wonder if this thread will go as long as your Anthem 29er one?!!
haha - who knows.. although i suspect probably not. I'm still rather happy with my AX29er so won't be posting too frequently - although you've reminded me that I should do a thread tidy-up! I think mtb101 is right.. the Spark will no doubt come at a relative premium to the AX29er, although i'll be interested to see how it performs!

The upcoming Ibis FS 29er on the other hand.. may stir some bike envy in me! :eek:
 

jathanas

Likes Bikes and Dirt
if it's around the 3 grand mark ... sure it will.
I'm sure you'll be able to buy the frame alone for just a couple of grand more than that...:)

BTW: The seat tube profile is so like the Epic 29er. Imitation - flattery, sort of thing:

 
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toby

Likes Dirt
Going to see alot of new FS 29er this year I think... and this will be one of the best!
 

iscarrr

Likes Dirt
Really like the look of these. And yeah very similar to the pic, less brain, more DT swiss shock.

I dont need a new 29er, but me likey.

Interesting they went straight to carbon too, most other big market manufactures obviously made Alu duallie 29ers first before going to carbon. Then again Scott's always been known as one of if not 'the' best brand around when it comes to carbon frames.

Some more info here:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/06/08/2012-scott-spark-full-suspension-mountain-bike-26-and-29er/

 

Bushranger

Likes Dirt
if it's around the 3 grand mark ... sure it will.
my mail is the prices are going to be super competitive, and indeed the ones I've been told bleeeew me away....

Think I'm going to get in line for one of these.

6 29er models are going to be released. 3 Carbon and 3 Aluminium.
 

SummitFever

Eats Squid
Shame about the suspension design. Just another faux-bar design with the usual brake jacking, chain growth etc... It certainly won't ride like a AX29. It'll probably be a weight weenies wet dream though.
 

SummitFever

Eats Squid
Those faux-bar suspension designs like this scott where the axle is directly connected to the swingarm are really just single pivots with a linkage actuated shock. This design has some fundamental problems. Braking forces are not isolated from suspension movement, so putting the rear brakes on actually stiffens the rear suspension which creates the "brake jacking" effect. The path of the rear axle also changes in distance from the chainrings so you get the effect when you hit a bump and are pedalling that the rear suspension pulls on the chain and makes it harder to pedal through the bump.

These designs also don't have any of the anti-squat type features of the DW-link, maestro etc designs so they rely on the platform tuning in the shock to stop pedal bob. This inevitably results in poor small bump compliance.
 

mcdoned

Likes Dirt
Those faux-bar suspension designs like this scott where the axle is directly connected to the swingarm are really just single pivots with a linkage actuated shock. This design has some fundamental problems. Braking forces are not isolated from suspension movement, so putting the rear brakes on actually stiffens the rear suspension which creates the "brake jacking" effect. The path of the rear axle also changes in distance from the chainrings so you get the effect when you hit a bump and are pedalling that the rear suspension pulls on the chain and makes it harder to pedal through the bump.

These designs also don't have any of the anti-squat type features of the DW-link, maestro etc designs so they rely on the platform tuning in the shock to stop pedal bob. This inevitably results in poor small bump compliance.
Shame about the suspension design. Just another faux-bar design with the usual brake jacking, chain growth etc... It certainly won't ride like a AX29. It'll probably be a weight weenies wet dream though.
If you want to think about this stuff clearly...
a) don't read marketing blurbs
b) draw a static free body diagram
c) draw a dynamic diagram

For the sake of disambiguation:

There's only one dual suspension 29er out there with zero chain growth - Lenz Milk Money. To achieve zero chain growth,the rear axle must move on a constant radius arc around the bottom bracket (sometimes referred to as a "concentric pivot"). It's only a useful concept if you want to run a dually single speed - and is otherwise detrimental.

Most suspension designs will utilise a rearward axle path early in the stroke. This means that chain tension resists the compressive force on the shock and prevents "squat" or "bob" characteristics, which would be when chain tension acts as an additional compressive force. Chain power is provided by the rider and is regulated through the spring and cage on a derailleur. There's no way that chain growth can make it harder to pedal. It's not like the suspension actually tries to make your chain go backwards - it just increases chain length, the derailleur adjusts tension accordingly, and your legs will never know the difference.

The whole selling point of multi-link setups like DW/Maestro is a variable axle path, so that the influence of chain tension is varied throughout the travel.

Brake jack is a force and moment created by the caliper that can act through a linkage to produce a force at the rear shock that tries to extend it. It looks like Scott have slotted the brake mount on the chainstay... this changes the braking dynamic compared to traditional seatstay mounts. Where did the phrase "isolating" a force come from? Forces don't disappear, they have to be resolved somewhere.... the force involved is tiny on short travel bikes with small rotors anyway.
 

Bushranger

Likes Dirt
I'm trying to follow guys, thanks for the input and would certainly welcome more...

I take it that basically there are two/three approaches to dreaded pedal bob:
1) Design suspension around double pivot type set ups
2) Handle at the shock itselt
3) the Brain

Is pedal bob really that bad of an issue - what I mean is, does it really slow you down or is it just a pain/uncomfortable?

From looking at this years scott pictures to the new models it does appear they've changed to locations of the pivot points and bought them further back near the seat tube? The remarks in articles give the impressions of a new suspension design.

I had a look at the giant and can't see what they've done to make it any different. Compared to say pivot or niner you can clearly see what they've done but Giant looks stock standard much like merida one twenty.

I guess proof will be in testing.

Cheers.
 

jathanas

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I've owned single pivot, Horst, maestro, you name it.

It's hard to buy a turkey these days, especially given pedaling platforms. Much comes down to not stomping on the pedals.

You can safely ignore any opinion claiming one as superior over the others.
 

mtb101

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Those faux-bar suspension designs like this scott where the axle is directly connected to the swingarm are really just single pivots with a linkage actuated shock. This design has some fundamental problems. Braking forces are not isolated from suspension movement, so putting the rear brakes on actually stiffens the rear suspension which creates the "brake jacking" effect. The path of the rear axle also changes in distance from the chainrings so you get the effect when you hit a bump and are pedalling that the rear suspension pulls on the chain and makes it harder to pedal through the bump.

These designs also don't have any of the anti-squat type features of the DW-link, maestro etc designs so they rely on the platform tuning in the shock to stop pedal bob. This inevitably results in poor small bump compliance.
ah ha, thank you, yeah I"m keeping with the X29, aren't going to spend 6gs on a track plower.:):):):)

but seriously would want to test ride bikes of this level so you can find out for yourself.

If I were Scott etc, I would make sure I had my new models at events for test rides, which I'm sure they do.
 

Bushranger

Likes Dirt
I've owned single pivot, Horst, maestro, you name it.

It's hard to buy a turkey these days, especially given pedaling platforms. Much comes down to not stomping on the pedals.

You can safely ignore any opinion claiming one as superior over the others.
I'm starting to think that. Everyone find faults with either the design they don't have on their bike (if they are an owner) or everyone elses designs if they are a manufacturer.
 

Ivan

Eats Squid
I've owned single pivot, Horst, maestro, you name it.

It's hard to buy a turkey these days, especially given pedaling platforms. Much comes down to not stomping on the pedals.

You can safely ignore any opinion claiming one as superior over the others.
I just had to chime in to say how much I agree with this post.:cool:
 
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