rone
Eats Squid
All riding under the belief that they'll be faster.
FINALLY THE 29er 'FAD' IS OVER FOR ANOTHER 5 YEARS !!!! HOORAY
- Thread starter fatarseracing
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Antsonline
Likes Dirt
Its all personal - but lets be clear. The World Cup in the Mens has been dominated by 29ers this year (and before you say "he'd have done it on anything" - he didnt. He rode 26 last year, and was good, but not dominant at all).
The World Champs this year was won on a 29er, and the womans race would certainly have been won on a 29er too - had Maja not punctured.
Pretty much every marathon race of any global level has also been won on a 29er (Cape Epic, World Marathon Champs, Trans Alps, Trans Germany, etcetc.)
I cant beleive I have bitten - this thread made me laugh to start with, but I had to bite!
The global marketing thing is bollox too. People change their bike regularly. They will be buy one or the other. Very few people buy one to supplement the other.
FWIW - I ride both. Race the 29er, and play on the 26er. Seems perfect to me. It would be a cold day in hell before I toed the line of a marathon on a 26" bike.
I don't know if I ride any faster but I do enjoy riding the 29er more than my 26er's!
Bushranger
Likes Dirt
Perhaps some, perhaps some riding under the knowledge that THEY will be faster. Perhaps some riding under the knowledge that they will enjoy the way they ride.
Timmy!!!
Likes Dirt
Twat. Double twat. (I only put the second "twat" because otherwise the message was too short for the bulletin board software. However, now I think about it, it seems strangely appropriate.)
harmonix1234
Eats Squid
wittman13
Likes Dirt
Do you always refer to yourself in the third person? I can refer back to posts in in 2008 where you did? So 2007!
rone
Eats Squid
harmonix1234
Eats Squid
Awesome!
How about 36er unicycle?
[video=youtube;-_QTs42Gbjw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=-_QTs42Gbjw[/video]
Gripo
Eats Squid
For real...and better than a 26r, I know fo show.....boiz....
outtacontrol
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Electric Panda
Likes Bikes
26inch wheel is 7% more efficient than a 29er in race conditions
Much of the comment regarding wheel size being inherently quicker than others is not backed up by repeatable and quantifiable data sets. Most forum commentators rely on their ‘feelings’ to decide inherent speed of one bike type over the other. Many others compare lap times on a brand new lighter more expensive bike and try to compare that time with their older less expensive or heavier bike.
It is marketing that large companies like Specialized refuse to release their power comparisons between different types of bikes… back in the HT v FS times they never released power figures on their Epic FS v HT… instead they just went out and bought the fastest guy on the planet and told him to love the full suss while everybody else rode HT… so the punters would roll up to our LBS and the guy behind the counter would point to the WC champion’s bike and say ‘buy this - it is the fastest bike going’.
If it is that speed is important to you … and that is a big ‘if’… is that speed in a short course XC race?, an enduro?, mucking around with your mates? … is it comfort - or confidence to get down/up a techy track better – lots of reasons to ride a particular bike… but if racing and speed are the principal reasons for using a particular piece of kit why wouldn’t you hunt down measurements/data/objective testing – pretty much every pro team on the planet does.
Power meters have been used for years by professionals to find advantages in equipment and to benchmark fitness. So easy to do... put new gear on bike … do ride on a known test track. Power meter testing is unequivocal. Same rider, same test cct… Which is the most efficient (ie uses less power for same speed/time/effort) – new gear or old gear? If a new bit of kit is a few % more efficient then that’s great. They are so common these days that keen age-groupers are using them. Power meters don’t have feelings. They just give out numbers without fear of financial reward or favour to a particular brand.
It has been done between 26ers and 29ers of course, but very few get published for obvious reasons.
Ed Harris, a sponsored endurance racer in the states, bought a 29er to test but while he ‘felt’ he was going quicker his data said otherwise. So he put powertap hubs on a 26 and a 29 and then published his results on his blog – all the details of the bikes, the raw data from the powertaps hubs etc . The furore it caused on the 29er forums was incredible. So he did them again in a 24hr race – swapping bikes every 2 laps and published those figures. Yep still the same … according to his powertap hubs you are using around 7% more power to get the same speed out of the heavier 29 inch wheel.
AMB magazine did a very similar test with power meters, though not under race conditions, but they got a similar result. They found that the 26inch wheel bike was 7.7% faster/more efficient on a 10minute lap course. The measurements on a 1min 30 sec climb though really brought everything back to reality – the 26er with its lighter wheels killed it - 260w v 386w for the 29er.
You can argue that power data is not valid but figures from an actual 24hr endurance race by a non bike company sponsored rider is about as unequivocal data as you are going to get. That a bike magazine finally – after all these years – had the balls to publish actual quantitative data from its own testing on the 26 v 29 debate says a lot about the power large corporate advertisers have over these marginal narrowly focused magazines.
Harris rides 29ers – he thinks they are fun – but not for racing. The AMB guys ‘felt’ the 29er was faster – but the data showed otherwise.
The argument about hardtail v full suss a few years back went along similar lines… and if you get to beat up in a 6hr then maybe sacrifice efficiency for comfort in some way and maybe a 29er/26 FS is a choice … maybe your race tracks are rocky and technical for you then maybe a 29er or full suss is the way to go…
whatever … but the concept that you have 75mm larger dia wheels that are significantly heavier + the extra weight of the sprung weight - is somehow more inherently efficient is easily debunked by repeatable and quantitative analysis using power data.
Much of the comment regarding wheel size being inherently quicker than others is not backed up by repeatable and quantifiable data sets. Most forum commentators rely on their ‘feelings’ to decide inherent speed of one bike type over the other. Many others compare lap times on a brand new lighter more expensive bike and try to compare that time with their older less expensive or heavier bike.
It is marketing that large companies like Specialized refuse to release their power comparisons between different types of bikes… back in the HT v FS times they never released power figures on their Epic FS v HT… instead they just went out and bought the fastest guy on the planet and told him to love the full suss while everybody else rode HT… so the punters would roll up to our LBS and the guy behind the counter would point to the WC champion’s bike and say ‘buy this - it is the fastest bike going’.
If it is that speed is important to you … and that is a big ‘if’… is that speed in a short course XC race?, an enduro?, mucking around with your mates? … is it comfort - or confidence to get down/up a techy track better – lots of reasons to ride a particular bike… but if racing and speed are the principal reasons for using a particular piece of kit why wouldn’t you hunt down measurements/data/objective testing – pretty much every pro team on the planet does.
Power meters have been used for years by professionals to find advantages in equipment and to benchmark fitness. So easy to do... put new gear on bike … do ride on a known test track. Power meter testing is unequivocal. Same rider, same test cct… Which is the most efficient (ie uses less power for same speed/time/effort) – new gear or old gear? If a new bit of kit is a few % more efficient then that’s great. They are so common these days that keen age-groupers are using them. Power meters don’t have feelings. They just give out numbers without fear of financial reward or favour to a particular brand.
It has been done between 26ers and 29ers of course, but very few get published for obvious reasons.
Ed Harris, a sponsored endurance racer in the states, bought a 29er to test but while he ‘felt’ he was going quicker his data said otherwise. So he put powertap hubs on a 26 and a 29 and then published his results on his blog – all the details of the bikes, the raw data from the powertaps hubs etc . The furore it caused on the 29er forums was incredible. So he did them again in a 24hr race – swapping bikes every 2 laps and published those figures. Yep still the same … according to his powertap hubs you are using around 7% more power to get the same speed out of the heavier 29 inch wheel.
AMB magazine did a very similar test with power meters, though not under race conditions, but they got a similar result. They found that the 26inch wheel bike was 7.7% faster/more efficient on a 10minute lap course. The measurements on a 1min 30 sec climb though really brought everything back to reality – the 26er with its lighter wheels killed it - 260w v 386w for the 29er.
You can argue that power data is not valid but figures from an actual 24hr endurance race by a non bike company sponsored rider is about as unequivocal data as you are going to get. That a bike magazine finally – after all these years – had the balls to publish actual quantitative data from its own testing on the 26 v 29 debate says a lot about the power large corporate advertisers have over these marginal narrowly focused magazines.
Harris rides 29ers – he thinks they are fun – but not for racing. The AMB guys ‘felt’ the 29er was faster – but the data showed otherwise.
The argument about hardtail v full suss a few years back went along similar lines… and if you get to beat up in a 6hr then maybe sacrifice efficiency for comfort in some way and maybe a 29er/26 FS is a choice … maybe your race tracks are rocky and technical for you then maybe a 29er or full suss is the way to go…
whatever … but the concept that you have 75mm larger dia wheels that are significantly heavier + the extra weight of the sprung weight - is somehow more inherently efficient is easily debunked by repeatable and quantitative analysis using power data.
mr chicken legs
Likes Bikes
was suprised how many were at the forrest festival.might have to jump on the band wagon.hate to miss a good fad. s works epic 29er is my next ride.
flamin'trek
Likes Bikes and Dirt
I ride a 26er and test rode 29er s-works epic and camber and they felt like they were rockets, the epic more so. So 29er is faster.
I then got back on my 26er and rode the same course, felt slower in a line, but easier to get through the tight stuff. So 26er is sometimes faster.
If my 12kg 26er was built to the same weight/spec as the 29ers I rode (sub 10kg) it would have been a better comparison. A new better (lighter, running gear etc) bike should feel faster, that's why we spend $$$$ upgrading. I'm not sold on 29ers yet, but if I had a squillion dollars and a massive garage I'm sure I would have one or more in amongst some 26ers. Choose your event, then choose your weapon.
I then got back on my 26er and rode the same course, felt slower in a line, but easier to get through the tight stuff. So 26er is sometimes faster.
If my 12kg 26er was built to the same weight/spec as the 29ers I rode (sub 10kg) it would have been a better comparison. A new better (lighter, running gear etc) bike should feel faster, that's why we spend $$$$ upgrading. I'm not sold on 29ers yet, but if I had a squillion dollars and a massive garage I'm sure I would have one or more in amongst some 26ers. Choose your event, then choose your weapon.
Norco Maniac
Is back!
'nuff said?
harmonix1234
Eats Squid
This thread is so shit.
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