What do you want from a modern LBS?

The Duckmeister said:
I'll respond to this bit:

Part of the problem there is that formal bike mechanics courses are as rare as hens' teeth - the TAFE system doesn't seem to see any value in offering the courses, so they only come up at a handful of places once in a blue moon. This makes it at the bare minimum highly inconvenient but more often downright impossible for anyone to actually get a formal qualification as a mechanic. So the unfortunate offshoot is that there are a lot of people working in shops as mechanics who have been hired because a) they're know at the shop beforehand as being interested in bikes and b) because they can at least hold a spanner.

Virtually all the training is done on the job, but often, because of the lack of formal training, some details get overlooked or lost in translation along the way.

I've been through the chain myself. My skills are virtually all self-taught. I had a decent grasp of the fundamentals when the shop I work at took me on, but a lot of stuff I've picked up on the way just from tinkering, and making the occasional stuff-up. The key is to recognise when you've stuffed something, and learn from it. I'm now in a position where I'm trying to pass on my knowledge to younger colleagues, and let's face it, some people just don't have mechanical aptitude. You can demonstrate until your fingers fall off & tell them until their ears burn, but some just don't get it.

I've been a professional mechanic for nearly 10 years, but don't have the piece of paper that says I know my shit. But I know that I know my shit.
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Most shop can actually offer on-site traineeships through TAFE with prior knowledge being accepted, their 2 years, but you can get through them in 6-8mths (probably quicker if your TAFE man isn't a prick) without hassle if you had prior knowledge, I did mine in my gap year a few years ago.
 
I find the whole qualified bike mechanic very interesting.
Bikes are incredibly simple but they can also be really sophisticated. I wont let anyone work on my bike,

I spoke to 3 bike shops about a wheel build today, when I asked about spoke tension/butted spoke/non eyeleted rim. one suggested "Dt swiss say butted spokes are stronger, I don't know how...."
Why trust my wheel build to these guys, sure you have been building wheels for 25 years.. doesn't mean you know what you are doing.


I think the increase in sophistication in bikes and parts and increase in number of standards has left the industry suffering with alot of under-qualified mechanics.
 
got it so wrong

spoke to a gent from a regional area who tried to order two different boutique bikes (Santa Cruz and Yeti) from two different Melbourne bike shops - now we are talking $7000 - 9000 bikes here. He had a list of everything he wanted - complete spec and credit card on hand ready to go, all they had to do was order it in. Neither shop bothered to ring him back to confirm they had ordered it, couldnt get it for a month, didnt have the colour/size/spec and could make changes - NOTHING.
So he rang an online bike shop based in Sydney and had it on his doorstep within a few weeks, with terrific communication and customer service.
Did he talk to some snotty nosed kid who works 10 hours a week who forgot - twice I dont think so.
 
I'm trying to buy some of the new Sidi Drako mtb shoes. I went to seven bike shops last week and can't find any. I even went to someone who is a stockist but they only do road shoes. I would really prefer to buy these in a shop where I can try them on. But I can't find any and I know if I order them online they will be here in 2 days. If the size is wrong ill send them back.
 
Service with a smile

Easy.

Good service (preferably friendly and with a smile). This means owners training their staff.
Good product knowledge of the products they are selling. Again owners training their staff.
Clean bike after a service without it being covered in oil/grease. Owners having policies and procedures for their mechanics including checklists.
A SMS or phone call to inform you when the bike or part is ready for pickup. P & P's as above.
Bike testing / demo days with a variety of bikes on a real-world trail, not just the local car park!
 
In summary...

People want good service at a reasonable price; if you are not offering good service then you can only compete on price and then you are competing with CRC/Wiggle/Jenson etc...who generally provide excellent sales service but can't provide the other aspects of service such as installation, tuning, fitting, repairs, sizing, advice etc. To me this is the value ad for the LBS and if they do not do it well then they won't be round for long...
 
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Service with a smile, and reasonable product knowledge is all I ask for! I've been going to my bike shop since I was a kid normally with a broken Kmart bike; having done something to it I probably shouldn’t have but they were always more than happy to help. Later in life I’ve brought a few bikes including my old roady which scored an upspec’ed frame because they found a crack in it. Whilst I certainly don’t go there “exclusively” they are always interested to hear various trail stories or see the latest bike that I am riding. Funnily enough they can always get in or find that obscure part I always seem to be looking for.

The kicker for me though is walking into the store and being greeted with a “howdy stranger”, after having not being in there for 4 years due to moving interstate… :dance::dance::dance:
 
I work in a shop where they've accepted the internet boom and realised that we are unlikely to make a good sum of profit from spare parts and repairs. Realistically, we only offer a gear and brake adjustment after three months for our bikes then lead them off to another shop or a place like Ride In Workshop in Sydney's North. Around 80% of out sales are online, so we do a lot of shipping out to other states, but we rarely branch out overseas (Unless a customer is willing to pay freight charges). To me, it seems a little dog to only offer people are very small amount of service opportunity, and it is noticeable with no regulars dropping in on saturday to say hello and get a quick tune up. I work in the Service department so have a lot of dealings with other distro's about warranty issues and thats about it.

I think the way we operate is the way of the future if riders continue to purchase online. We don't rely heavily on servicing, most of our time goes into advertising and checking over new bikes before we send them out. Ride In Workshop in Balgowlah has it right too, no real brand and new bikes, just people roll in, give them the bikes to service, and they are all good enough to get it done right and on time.
 
Sanders. said:
I work in a shop where they've accepted the internet boom and realised that we are unlikely to make a good sum of profit from spare parts and repairs. Realistically, we only offer a gear and brake adjustment after three months for our bikes then lead them off to another shop or a place like Ride In Workshop in Sydney's North. Around 80% of out sales are online, so we do a lot of shipping out to other states, but we rarely branch out overseas (Unless a customer is willing to pay freight charges). To me, it seems a little dog to only offer people are very small amount of service opportunity, and it is noticeable with no regulars dropping in on saturday to say hello and get a quick tune up. I work in the Service department so have a lot of dealings with other distro's about warranty issues and thats about it.

I think the way we operate is the way of the future if riders continue to purchase online. We don't rely heavily on servicing, most of our time goes into advertising and checking over new bikes before we send them out. Ride In Workshop in Balgowlah has it right too, no real brand and new bikes, just people roll in, give them the bikes to service, and they are all good enough to get it done right and on time.
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This is smart thinking by your shop...a different spin on theory "if you can't beat them...join them!"

I understand what you are saying it seems a 'little dog' not to offer full servicing but you've said why you don't in the first sentence - "I work in a shop where they've accepted the internet boom and realised that we are unlikely to make a good sum of profit from spare parts and repairs"

Does your shop 'refer' servicing to the Ride in Workshop? If you did the workshop might refer people looking to buy a new bike to your shop...one hand feeds the other if you will!
 
merc-blue said:
I spoke to 3 bike shops about a wheel build today, when I asked about spoke tension/butted spoke/non eyeleted rim. one suggested "Dt swiss say butted spokes are stronger, I don't know how...."
Why trust my wheel build to these guys, sure you have been building wheels for 25 years.. doesn't mean you know what you are doing.
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Butted spokes are stronger because the lighter gauge section can actually stretch a bit more than a more rigid straight gauge spoke. This makes the wheel a little more supple against road/trail bumps, so you're less likely to break spokes.
 
MARKL said:
In summary...

People want good service at a reasonable price; if you are not offering good service then you can only compete on price and then you are competing with CRC/Wiggle/Jenson etc...who generally provide excellent sales service but can't provide the other aspects of service such as installation, tuning, fitting, repairs, sizing, advice etc. To me this is the value ad for the LBS and if they do not do it well then they won't be round for long...
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spot on.........
 
Big Chuck said:
Bloot, maybe because you and I work in sales makes us look at the world in a different way.

Any LBS that doesn't encourage or even promotes this now days is doing themselves out of a customer. Every time that customer walks into your shop to pay for a service, you have an opportunity to sell them something. It might just be a pair of gloves this time, but it's still a sale and by building that relationship you might end up selling him/her, their friend or relative a new bike or two. Treat them poorly and you'll get nothing.
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Having worked in retail and been shown the value of these techniques and yes they are techniques this makes the most sense to me. Sometimes I feel that a LBS would be better off having a great sales person or customer service representative than someone who is a great rider, or enthusiast about the sport. Yes its great sharing a passion with someone but really I just want great customer service from someone who is knowledgeable, and lets be honest this kind of product knowledge could be gained from simple homework/reading more so than riding.

I would make the assumption that anyone who has purchased a part online has a little bit more knowledge than the average punter, it would be easy to tap into this. Share in the excitement of the purchase, yes it will look great, fit, work well etc etc. Here let me fit it for you, our service prices are xxx, hey we have just got these thingys in and it would look sweet on your ride, work a little better than this, fit nicer etc. Or I notice something here that you will need to look at/replace/service in the future. And on and on and on. Its simple, build the relationship, you may not initially make money from this customer but you can be rest assured they will make impulse purchases, buy more parts that need fitting (who here doesn't rotate through parts regularly) and most importantly refer to their friends int he future. I have done this with a great mechanic and store in Melbourne, I get treated well, not special just well. They take the time to listen and advise on my needs. Yes I buy some things, others I don't, but everyone who asks me about places to go gets told about them. This has resulted in a few bike fits, servicing, a couple of bike purchases for the store and this adds up. If they had treated me like a a-hole the first time I went in to get a headset pressed in then it wouldn't have happened. In fact I went to 3 stores on this occasion, one didn't have the tool, one treated me like an a-hole and the other said no problem, thats a sweet frame. The one who treated me like an a-hole doesn't get a recommendation to anyone and funnily enough I am not the only one who has that to say about this particular store.

In sales you win some and you lose some, but you can certainly do all you can to win them over. If it doesn't happen, that doesn't make the customer an a-hole that deserves prawns in their frame, it just means they decided to do something else and thats ok. If you treated them fairly and were polite, courteous and offered good advice you haven't lost a customer or future sale and potentially more from their friends/acquaintances. Give them a hard time and you've not only lost that sale but all future sales from both their friends and acquaintances.

It may not be feasible but I really think some LBS Owners/Managers need to get some kind of training in sales/retail. After all knowledge alone does not make for good customer service
 
people make a great bike shop

people like to interact - it is natural - the best stores have the most engaging individuals/staff - you want to chat/hang out and spend money (or pay stuff off).

It all comes down to interpersonal effectiveness - it comes down to people.

I have know terrific mechanics but they are social train crashes and cant communicate. The first shop that employs fundament retail /CS/leadership training of staff will be on a winner - oh and set up (seek government funding) mechanic education - apprenterships - certified industry approved certificate training.
I would employ people with more hospitality experience in a bike store - you can teach them about bikes but not the attributes required to serve people well - you either have it or not.
 
Big JD said:
so you can get a spa, a massage with a happy ending and walk out with a book. A book shop disguised as a rub and tug joint -now there is a concept.
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i was actually serious, being a registered Remedial Therapist myself. there was no need for you to be a dick.
 
Honesty, upfront brutal honesty, product knowledge or an uncanny ability to ask a supplier who may know, service and a clear understanding of what we want from each other.

My local shop is quite happy to fit items bought from the internet, he will try and price match or get close where possible and if he cant he will tell me upfront BUT I will always give him the option to price the goods. Of course he has explained if I buy off the net and get him to fit, I pay a little more for it as his profit is reduced by not selling the item in the first place. Often whilst his prices may not be an exact match but are close I will buy them off him to begin with. He obviously doesnt cover warranty on items not purchased through him but will often tune the items after fitting if required.

We both know what is expected in our relationship, I give him a fair go and Im honest about what I am doing, he in turn helps me where he can on either pricing or fitting and lets me know upfront what my costs are either way.

His service is perfect, bikes are always returned on schedule or parts arrive when discussed, unless something out of his control occurs (freight, out of stock etc). If something is going to take 4 weeks, I know that from the get go, not in 2 weeks time.

His take on the net is that it is here to stay and it is only going to get worse, so he needs to do something to maintain his business. He may charge for a few things which he previously hasnt but that is a direct result of his margins and profits being squeezed through the net. I understand that.

I also have a clear understanding of his policy on both items bought instore and items bought on the net. He doesnt advertise this, but if you ask and talk to him, he is open and honest. Some shops probably need to find out their stance and policy/procedures for it, so customers know where they stand.

There has to be give either way to reach a middle ground. Shops who dont budge (on internet prices etc) wont be around for long conversly shops that dont appropriately charge to assist on mechanincal installs, tunes and services, wont be around for long either.

I dont think DIY mechanics areas should be an option, just pay the mechanic and hourly rate or a set fee for installation (part dependant of course) and let the bike shop makes its money. As consumers we cant have everything.

I know my LBS doesnt say 'Salvation Army (charity)' on its front door and it needs to maintain profits to keep the doors open. I know I dont say 'sucker' on my forehead either, so we met somewhere in between and everyone is happy!

This my friend is exactly what I want from my LBS.
 
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