Pre workout, hydration, post ride nutrition

[Dozer]

So, I ride downhill primarily but also do tons of trail rides and commuting. I'm mid thirties and consider myself a strong enough rider to manage the rides I do and can back up the next day and do it all again.
I recently tried a couple of supplements that a friend recommended, one in particular was what he called a pre workout powder that you mix with water and feel it release in your system giving you extra energy, more alert and can stay active longer. I'm unsure of the name but he did say that it's the closest thing to the illegal products being sold in retailers in Australia. My summary? I did a 30km night ride and yeah, it worked pretty good! Considering I have never considered anything like this product (or any supplement other than food) I was pretty impressed. I did ride harder, I did have more energy and I did have lasting energy..........................until I stopped riding and rested for twenty minutes. I got the dreaded come down; the crash if you will. My eyes felt like sandpits and were sore, my body felt like it was about to slump and crumble underneath me and I was wired for hours after it. I've been told people use these products three times a day!!! It isn't for me, not that type of supplement, it was too full on and I felt worse for using it.

My wife sells products from an ever growing company called Arbonne. Primarily, the products available are cosmetic and wellness products that are not tested on animals, created from friendly products that are actually good for you. SHe loves it, she's great at selling the gear and has met so many nice people and made so many friends from it.
At the time I had done my test run of pre workout, Arbonne was scheduled to release a line of products that are not dissimilar to pre workouts and hydration systems. As you'd imagine, I was not really interested in giving the products a go as I found the pre workout I'd used from another store was too much to handle, even for a big tough guy like me. I did try the range though and I'm pretty bloody impressed! See it here for the nitty gritty http://www.arbonne.com/discover/products/phytosport.shtml
My experience with the products has been running for over a month now and I've put the products onto other athletes and people interested in exercise with great results. The first product in the line is the powder to mix to use prior and even during your exercise and it provides a great slow release that prolongs your energy. It isn't a crazy drug like other supplements, it actually tastes good and does not have any after effect. It does prolong what you're doing and you feel great for it.
The next product in the line is my favorite; the hydration system. Again, you just mix it with water and use it during and after your exercise. I've found this great for mountain biking, especially downhilling where I drink a mouthful between runs and feel fresh getting to the start of the run. Where I have found it's biggest benefit is playing basketball. I play a whole game and do not sit on the bench so I need to keep my energy and focus. Prior to using the range I was lagging at the end of each quarter but now I feel like I could run the next game.
The after workout is something I haven't used too much of as I haven't felt the need. I do feel pretty fresh after the exercise I do but intend to try it out pretty soon.
I'm not making this post in the hope of selling the range to the folks on Rotorburn but do wish to share my experience as I think it's something very much worth considering. I have never had any intention or felt a need to aid my body with supplements or aids but this stuff is really bloody surprising! It isn't like the shit I used prior and it is a good tasting thing to have with you instead of some other aids.
Of course I'd happily arrange some samples for you folks to try, it's that good that it's worth sampling. Feel free to hit me up or post any info you have on this type of product.

 

[Minlak]

Doing something is better than nothing give it a go peeps.

 

[poita]

Certainly worth considering what goes in pre, during and post ride. I use various things, but as dozer found out it's VERY important to check what's in them. You can often get similar results from real food if you're careful, and it doesn't cost you the earth. There is a reasonable amount of research out there if people are interested, but if not just try it and see! Everyone is different, but I find post-ride intake rather than pre or during made the most difference for me.

 

[Ky1e]

Not much of a fan of pre workout and cycling, I've tried it and always tank badly. When I train I do use a thermogenic however to help me strip weight, but don't use this for longer rides or any racing.
I do use a post workout recovery protein powder called peptide performance protein which greatly helps me with muscle soreness. Got me through my first stage race a while back without a doubt.

 

[willsy01]

Pre-ride: Bacon & egg roll + coffee
Mid-ride: Whatever i've left in my Camelbak from last ride (Not good if it was as a banana)
Post ride: Whatever I can find in the cupboard/fridge washed down with a 150 Lashes.

 

[Ghostee]

Downside to using a pre workout pre ride is not only the 'crash' a lot of people experience as they are only designed for short term energy, 90 min give or take, but the other main purpose of a pre workout is increased nitric oxide/blood flow or 'pump' in muscle being trained, in this case, obviously legs
Pumped legs when riding is the last thing you want, it is simply painful and restrictive. Energy levels may be higher but muscle fatuigue is generally increased because of the 'endurance factor' opposed to power type movements you would typically be doing in the gym when using a pre workout as it is intended use.
Thermogenics on the other hand can be effective pre rideas they are without nitric oxide enhancers and include fat burning and mental focus based amino acids, but only for a short blast on the bike, anything over 90 min and i wouldnt use anything at all. I usually supplement beta alanine before my ride which is an amino acid for lactic acid dispersal and occasionaly ill pop an energy/focus type pill mid ride to push me through the sceond half...
At the end of the day, nothing can beat a well balanced diet really...
Just my 2c
:ghost:

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Is this some kind of weird advertorial? read the link, has testimonials, no science, rough few weeks at work, freely admit to being grumpy.

Only two things are proven to work, caffeine and glucose supplementation, creatine for more anaerobic pursuits, everything else is a hoax, pre and post workout is a hoax. If it is performance orientated and differs from the AIS guidelines is placebo.

Downside to using a pre workout pre ride is not only the 'crash' a lot of people experience as they are only designed for short term energy, 90 min give or take, but the other main purpose of a pre workout is increased nitric oxide/blood flow or 'pump' in muscle being trained, in this case, obviously legs
Pumped legs when riding is the last thing you want, it is simply painful and restrictive. Energy levels may be higher but muscle fatuigue is generally increased because of the 'endurance factor' opposed to power type movements you would typically be doing in the gym when using a pre workout as it is intended use.
Thermogenics on the other hand can be effective pre rideas they are without nitric oxide enhancers and include fat burning and mental focus based amino acids, but only for a short blast on the bike, anything over 90 min and i wouldnt use anything at all. I usually supplement beta alanine before my ride which is an amino acid for lactic acid dispersal and occasionaly ill pop an energy/focus type pill mid ride to push me through the sceond half...
At the end of the day, nothing can beat a well balanced diet really...
Just my 2c
:ghost:

Struggling to make sense of this?

The crash or hitting the wall will occur to everyone whether supplementation occurs or not. usually takes close to two hours, depending on intensity of effort, has nothing to do with nitric oxide, but glycogen depletion.

Nitro oxide, occurs during exercise to dilate vessels to the working muscles, taking a supplement that increases nitric oxide, will increase systemic blood flow, reducing blood flow to the working muscles, a terrible thing for aerobic activity.

Fat burners are a hoax, unless it is an amphetamine (illegal), mitochondria are the only thing that can process fat into energy, with the by products water, heat and CO2. Doesn't matter what you take, the only thing that will burn more energy is more and larger mitochondria. caffeine can slightly alter % macro nutrition uptake, favour fats slightly more, but even so, carbs are dominate.

Without getting out the studies, haven't taught exercise physiology this semester, beta alanine, often taken with creatine, may help high intensity activities, it takes up lose H+ or phosphates (cant remember) to form lactic back into pyruvate, will make no difference to lactic at the end of an aerobic training session. Anaerobic certainly may help.

nutrition and supplement advice... is pretty much summed up by this link

http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

 

[Ghostee]

Is this some kind of weird advertorial? read the link, has testimonials, no science, rough few weeks at work, freely admit to being grumpy.

Only two things are proven to work, caffeine and glucose supplementation, creatine for more anaerobic pursuits, everything else is a hoax, pre and post workout is a hoax. If it is performance orientated and differs from the AIS guidelines is placebo.



Struggling to make sense of this?

The crash or hitting the wall will occur to everyone whether supplementation occurs or not. usually takes close to two hours, depending on intensity of effort, has nothing to do with nitric oxide, but glycogen depletion.

Nitro oxide, occurs during exercise to dilate vessels to the working muscles, taking a supplement that increases nitric oxide, will increase systemic blood flow, reducing blood flow to the working muscles, a terrible thing for aerobic activity.

Fat burners are a hoax, unless it is an amphetamine (illegal), mitochondria are the only thing that can process fat into energy, with the by products water, heat and CO2. Doesn't matter what you take, the only thing that will burn more energy is more and larger mitochondria. caffeine can slightly alter % macro nutrition uptake, favour fats slightly more, but even so, carbs are dominate.

Without getting out the studies, haven't taught exercise physiology this semester, beta alanine, often taken with creatine, may help high intensity activities, it takes up lose H+ or phosphates (cant remember) to form lactic back into pyruvate, will make no difference to lactic at the end of an aerobic training session. Anaerobic certainly may help.

nutrition and supplement advice... is pretty much summed up by this link

http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

The crash which I was referring to was a caffeine based crash, not necessarily a general crash from prolonged exercise or strenuous activty. The crash is amplied significantly when these both occur around the same time.
"Fat burners are a hoax" is quite a claim though... acetyl l-carnitine, cla, hca, egcg, all these are a hoax?

 

[pharmaboy]

Pre-ride: Bacon & egg roll + coffee
Mid-ride: Whatever i've left in my Camelbak from last ride (Not good if it was as a banana)
Post ride: Whatever I can find in the cupboard/fridge washed down with a 150 Lashes.

Sounds like a mountain biker.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

The crash which I was referring to was a caffeine based crash, not necessarily a general crash from prolonged exercise or strenuous activty. The crash is amplied significantly when these both occur around the same time.
"Fat burners are a hoax" is quite a claim though... acetyl l-carnitine, cla, hca, egcg, all these are a hoax?

Ah ok, the caffeine recommendations are pretty retarded, multiple nodoz for regular sized folks, good for performance, not ideal for health.

Yup, the rest are all hoax, designed to sound sciency for layman to waste their money on.

If they worked, there would be scientific evidence and they would be called medicene and doctors would prescribe them, that obviously does not happen, because they don't work.

There are studies that have broadly indicated that some of these may have an effect, but no evidence, burn fat with a pill and lose weight, prove that and a Nobel Prize would be yours.

 

[pharmaboy]

The crash which I was referring to was a caffeine based crash, not necessarily a general crash from prolonged exercise or strenuous activty. The crash is amplied significantly when these both occur around the same time.
"Fat burners are a hoax" is quite a claim though... acetyl l-carnitine, cla, hca, egcg, all these are a hoax?

Maybe not, Hoax infers the original instigator knew it was bullshit and made it all up - I think not.

It is all pseudoscience without evidence though.

I'm still clinging to beetroot juice though.........

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Maybe not, Hoax infers the original instigator knew it was bullshit and made it all up - I think not.

It is all pseudoscience without evidence though.

I'm still clinging to beetroot juice though.........

Supplement company either knows it doesn't work or sells it claiming it does without evidence, hoax might be to nice a term, scam is better!

 

[Minlak]

Buy supplements from America / Asia then you are getting "Active" ingredients :hungry:

 

[ajay]

Tried a creatine based pre workout once. I felt like I was on a mild amphetamine rush. Never again. I'll stick to cheeseburgers.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Buy supplements from America / Asia then you are getting "Active" ingredients :hungry:

hehe, that is often true, although I have heard stories of AFP and customs taking an interest in this. Depending on the quantity of the order.

 

[steve jobs' pancreas]

does the idea of taking supplements have merit if they are being used as an easy way to get the nutrition you are after? Like having a protein shake after a workout rather than a tasty piece o cow ?

 

[Ghostee]

does the idea of taking supplements have merit if they are being used as an easy way to get the nutrition you are after? Like having a protein shake after a workout rather than a tasty piece o cow ?

Yep, absolutely.
A shake after training, or any physical activity is a great alternative if a full meal is not acheivable, which for most, is not. Preferably a whey protein isolate as it the quickest absorbed of the whey protein family, with carbs in it too to help replenish those glycogen stores that have been depleted.

But you know what else could fill this nutrition quota? a quarter pounder; protein and carbs/sugars. Done. Seriously.

I run a supplement store, it is my job to sell supplements but I cannot emphasize enough to customers that they are in fact, SUPPLEMENTS. They supplement what you cannot acheive in a balanced diet. They are not the answer for most people's problems, it really just comes down to laziness majority of the time with regards to taking the time to prep meals, and of course, knowledge; A lot of people dont even know what a balanced diet is and what they should be eating but that is a whole different topic.

 

[ajay]

Yep, absolutely.
A shake after training, or any physical activity is a great alternative if a full meal is not acheivable, which for most, is not. Preferably a whey protein isolate as it the quickest absorbed of the whey protein family, with carbs in it too to help replenish those glycogen stores that have been depleted.

But you know what else could fill this nutrition quota? a quarter pounder; protein and carbs/sugars. Done. Seriously.

I run a supplement store, it is my job to sell supplements but I cannot emphasize enough to customers that they are in fact, SUPPLEMENTS. They supplement what you cannot acheive in a balanced diet. They are not the answer for most people's problems, it really just comes down to laziness majority of the time with regards to taking the time to prep meals, and of course, knowledge; A lot of people dont even know what a balanced diet is and what they should be eating but that is a whole different topic.

Yeah, and looking at the ingredients on the back of most of those protein shakes, I'd much prefer to eat a quarter pounder! From what I understand (which is very little on this topic) isn't the whole idea of a post work out sup just to reduce the onset of fatigue and repair muscle faster? So basically, just have a pure unflavoured (and foul tasting) BCAA sup? The rest just seems like a whole bunch of chocolate powder to make it palatable /shrug

 

[link1896]

Yep, absolutely.
A shake after training, or any physical activity is a great alternative if a full meal is not acheivable, which for most, is not. Preferably a whey protein isolate as it the quickest absorbed of the whey protein family, with carbs in it too to help replenish those glycogen stores that have been depleted.

But you know what else could fill this nutrition quota? a quarter pounder; protein and carbs/sugars. Done. Seriously.

I run a supplement store, it is my job to sell supplements but I cannot emphasize enough to customers that they are in fact, SUPPLEMENTS. They supplement what you cannot acheive in a balanced diet. They are not the answer for most people's problems, it really just comes down to laziness majority of the time with regards to taking the time to prep meals, and of course, knowledge; A lot of people dont even know what a balanced diet is and what they should be eating but that is a whole different topic.

So can we group order some Jack3d?

i tried Jack3d once, active ingredient is now banned. After 20 minutes couldn't feel my skin. https://www.tga.gov.au/behind-news/tga-decision-ban-dmaa

Scivation Extend is my favourite suppliment now, and Ghostee is spot on, diet and sleep are the biggest performance boosters.

dozer, I'll pm you, keen to try your new powder.

 

[poita]

Yep, absolutely.
A shake after training, or any physical activity is a great alternative if a full meal is not acheivable, which for most, is not. Preferably a whey protein isolate as it the quickest absorbed of the whey protein family, with carbs in it too to help replenish those glycogen stores that have been depleted.

But you know what else could fill this nutrition quota? a quarter pounder; protein and carbs/sugars. Done. Seriously.

I run a supplement store, it is my job to sell supplements but I cannot emphasize enough to customers that they are in fact, SUPPLEMENTS. They supplement what you cannot acheive in a balanced diet. They are not the answer for most people's problems, it really just comes down to laziness majority of the time with regards to taking the time to prep meals, and of course, knowledge; A lot of people dont even know what a balanced diet is and what they should be eating but that is a whole different topic.

Agree wholeheartedly. It's maximising efficiency in the intake department

I also agree, however, that most "special extracts" and supplements etc are complete BS. Protein, electrolytes and carbs however have solid scientific background.