The election thread - Two middle-late aged white men trying to be blokey and convincing..., same old shit, FFS.

[mike14]

If your employer offered you an extra 15k to take home or 1k and some story about how some cunt you dont know now can live in the inner suburbs for cheap, I highly doubt youd take the second option.

Like I said. Leave my tax cuts alone.

Meh, as someone who will benefit from the tax cuts I'd much rather they were cancelled and the $4 used elsewhere.

I also understand that would involve failed projects and waste, because we are at a point where our governments can't seem to get out of its own way, exacerbated by special interest groups with far too much clout. But I'd rather they try and fail to make this a more livable country for more people, than just help me buy the kids more crap for xmas.

You're free to do you, I'm just pointing out that your doubts about whether people would take the 2nd option aren't entirely accurate, and I know I'm not alone with people in a similar situation

 

[MasterOfReality]

I'll benefit from the tax cuts, like I'm going to knock that back. More money in my pocket is better for me, and I said it years ago in this political thread, I look after number one. The tax cuts aren't like what the idiots in the UK were trying to push through, at least here its spread across a substantial portion of the workforce. Naturally higher income earners will get a bigger cut, it makes total sense. They pay a higher proportion of tax to start with.

The question should be is whether the government can afford it, not whether "rich" people deserve it. If the tax cuts aren't affordable (which is most likely) then it makes sense to postpone to a later date when conditions are more favourable.

 

[Haakon]

Who knows. I'd open a soup kitchen.

What a waste of money and time… Society relying on ineffective and inefficient charity is not a society - it’s serfs and lords.

 

[Haakon]

I'll benefit from the tax cuts, like I'm going to knock that back. More money in my pocket is better for me, and I said it years ago in this political thread, I look after number one. The tax cuts aren't like what the idiots in the UK were trying to push through, at least here its spread across a substantial portion of the workforce. Naturally higher income earners will get a bigger cut, it makes total sense. They pay a higher proportion of tax to start with.

The question should be is whether the government can afford it, not whether "rich" people deserve it. If the tax cuts aren't affordable (which is most likely) then it makes sense to postpone to a later date when conditions are more favourable.

Don’t delay it as such, just put it in its proper place in the queue for things the money needs to be spent on. Ie about 45590 down the list…

 

[Scotty T]

You're free to do you, I'm just pointing out that your doubts about whether people would take the 2nd option aren't entirely accurate, and I know I'm not alone with people in a similar situation

Recent polling suggests most of us who will benefit are happy to not have money we never had, and it seems economic circumstances of the country and the world are a big driver. I won't cry if I don't get a tax cut, and it's not about whether I deserve it, for me it's a bit whether I need it and a bit whether the gov can afford it, the answer to both is no.

My self interest is around whether it will drive up interest rates and inflation because I have a mortgage that's about to get bigger in the next year or so as we renovate our home. It might be money that goes straight to the bank so they can continue to profit if interest rates are pushed up by the cuts.

 

[Squidfayce]

You're free to do you, I'm just pointing out that your doubts about whether people would take the 2nd option aren't entirely accurate, and I know I'm not alone with people in a similar situation

If your benefit stands to be $4, sure. I assert that those that would benefit in the +10k range would likely rethink their position when faced with it. Theres no shame in it either.

In hypothetical scenarios its not uncommon for most people to take up a virtuous position. And its easier when the loss or percieved loss is lesser. I'm fairly certain I recall reading about studies into human behaviors that shows that statistically significant portions of humans act differently in real life than how they think they would when presented with hypothetical scenarios. Really common one is coming to someone's aid - people think they would put themselves in danger to stand up for a stranger being attacked, but how often does that happen? It happens, but the vast majority watch on, some even film it. Its crazy.

A lot of people don't like how the thought process makes them feel. I think that's why people get angry about people openly just saying shit like "fuck that, I'm not risking getting stabbed to help some rando" or in this case" fuck that, ill take the money".

The question should be is whether the government can afford it, not whether "rich" people deserve it.

this is valid.

I do think you've hit a nail on the head with the comment about whether rich people "deserve" it. That sentiment always comes up when someone or a class misses out or doesn't stand to directly benefit. How dare rich people be more rich, right? No one is stopping you from being wealthy.
The LITMO (lamington) recipients aren't complaining about an extra 2k in their pockets last couple years. Rich people who didn't qualify certainly aren't upset that lower/middle income people got the cuts. I doubt anyone complained about Rudds 700 buck stimulus during the GFC. Interesting human dynamics at play for sure.

What a waste of money and time… Society relying on ineffective and inefficient charity is not a society - it’s serfs and lords.

These are necessary because of the inefficient use of government resources over decades to solve these problems. If these didn't exist, people would literally starve or resort to crime (many already do, but many don't because these services exist). Ive made use of these services myself when i was a teenager and i can tell you being able to get a hot meal once a day really makes a difference.

 

[Squidfayce]

Recent polling suggests most of us who will benefit are happy to not have money we never had,

are you referring to the statistically insignificant sample of people in this thread or is there a poll open to all the 90% of the population who doesnt personally benefit has voted? Both would be skewed. Id love to see polling of statistically significant sample from those that stand to benefit a 10k or greater cut. Im certain the results wouldn't surprise.

 

[Haakon]

If your benefit stands to be $4, sure. I assert that those that would benefit in the +10k range would likely rethink their position when faced with it. Theres no shame in it either.

In hypothetical scenarios its not uncommon for most people to take up a virtuous position. And its easier when the loss or percieved loss is lesser. I'm fairly certain I recall reading about studies into human behaviors that shows that statistically significant portions of humans act differently in real life than how they think they would when presented with hypothetical scenarios. Really common one is coming to someone's aid - people think they would put themselves in danger to stand up for a stranger being attacked, but how often does that happen? It happens, but the vast majority watch on, some even film it. Its crazy.

A lot of people don't like how the thought process makes them feel. I think that's why people get angry about people openly just saying shit like "fuck that, I'm not risking getting stabbed to help some rando" or in this case" fuck that, ill take the money".



this is valid.

I do think you've hit a nail on the head with the comment about whether rich people "deserve" it. That sentiment always comes up when someone or a class misses out or doesn't stand to directly benefit. How dare rick people be more rich, right? No one is stopping you from being wealthy.
The LITMO (lamington) recipients aren't complaining about an extra 2k in their pockets last couple years. Rich people who didn't qualify certainly aren't upset that lower/middle income people got the cuts. I doubt anyone complained about Rudds 700 buck stimulus during the GFC. Interesting human dynamics at play for sure.


These are necessary because of the inefficient use of government resources over decades to solve these problems. If these didn't exist, people would literally starve or resort to crime (many already do, but many don't because these services exist). Ive made use of these services myself when i was a teenager and i can tell you being able to get a hot meal once a day really makes a difference.

Wow. That’s a pretty abhorrent set of views… Im almost impressed!

 

[Squidfayce]

Wow. That’s a pretty abhorrent set of views… Im almost impressed!

Well i guess large majoritiy of wealthy nations peoples are abhorrent then. These things are uncomfortable to hear, but this is the world.

 

[Haakon]

Well i guess large majorities of wealthy nations people are abhorrent then. These things are uncomfortable to hear, but this is the world.

Indeed. What’s your point?

 

[Squidfayce]

Indeed. What’s your point?

whats yours? my points were clear

 

[Scotty T]

are you referring to the statistically insignificant sample of people in this thread or is there a poll open to all the 90% of the population who doesnt personally benefit has voted? Both would be skewed. Id love to see polling of statistically significant sample from those that stand to benefit a 10k or greater cut. Im certain the results wouldn't surprise.

Knock yourself out.

Polling – Stage 3 income tax cuts - The Australia Institute

Key results The Australia Institute surveyed a nationally representative sample of 1,409 Australians about their views on the stage 3 income tax cuts. The results show that the stage 3 tax cuts are not widely supported. • Respondents were most likely to correctly identify that high income...

australiainstitute.org.au

 

[Flow-Rider]

Wow. That’s a pretty abhorrent set of views… Im almost impressed!

I think we have Tony Abbot's son here.

@Squidfayce I hope you never fall from grace, all the cunts you backstabbed in the corporate world will probably knife you on the way down.

 

[Squidfayce]

Knock yourself out.

Polling – Stage 3 income tax cuts - The Australia Institute

Key results The Australia Institute surveyed a nationally representative sample of 1,409 Australians about their views on the stage 3 income tax cuts. The results show that the stage 3 tax cuts are not widely supported. • Respondents were most likely to correctly identify that high income...

australiainstitute.org.au

a "nationall;y representative" sample includes people who don't stand to personally benefit. That wasn't what i asked you for, is it?

That sample will include MORE people who dont stand to benefit by virtue of being nationally representative. So no surprise that more would vote to repeal.

Like i said, show me a poll representative of only those that stand to benefit +10K.

 

[nathanm]

Australia has certainly seen a pretty big divide over the last decade due to Liberal policy which has created people like SquidyFace who are in it for themselves and would sell their own grandmother to increase their personal wealth.
Jayne told me about an interesting discussion with some friends of hers who moved to Australia from Iran. The Husband is a Doctor who dedicated years to retrain to become qualified again in Australia.
He is the only wage earner for the family and is concerned about rising cost of living and interest rates like the rest of us. They are also upset by the ongoing issues in their home country Iran and the unrest currently happening.
But here's the kicker.....................his concern is because he has several rental properties which they owe a small amount on and own their $2million dollar property in an exclusive part of Hobart. The rising interest rates means that he will now need to contribute towards the mortgage on their rentals which will mean a reduced income. Of course they are not using any of their wealth to actual help anyone back in Iran or move any of their family to Australia, preferring to adopt "Western Ways" of focusing on their own wealth building, whilst sending thoughts and prayers.

What.The.Fuck has happened to Australia? Millions of people will struggle to keep their homes, many will lose their jobs, homes and everything they worked for just so big business and banks can make billions and the rich lament that their wealth will slow without care or concern for people who will struggle and some even fail to afford basic human rights such as food and accommodation. Of course people doing it tough know what it's like to struggle and are the most willing to share anything extra they may have.

Its a disgrace that the Liberals created such an adversarial divide between the have and have nots. You can only hope that when people start stealing to live, they take Squidys bikes first.

 

[Squidfayce]

@Squidfayce I hope you never fall from grace, all the cunts you backstabbed in the corporate world will probably knife you on the way down.

Lots of assumptions there. but ok. I understand that these views or conversations are uncomfortable and people dont like their sensibilities being challenged , but at least im not resorting to thinly veiled or direct insults.

 

[slowmick]

So a poll of people who earn above $200k+ per year?

 

[Squidfayce]

Australia has certainly seen a pretty big divide over the last decade due to Liberal policy which has created people like SquidyFace who are in it for themselves and would sell their own grandmother to increase their personal wealth.
Jayne told me about an interesting discussion with some friends of hers who moved to Australia from Iran. The Husband is a Doctor who dedicated years to retrain to become qualified again in Australia.
He is the only wage earner for the family and is concerned about rising cost of living and interest rates like the rest of us. They are also upset by the ongoing issues in their home country Iran and the unrest currently happening.
But here's the kicker.....................his concern is because he has several rental properties which they owe a small amount on and own their $2million dollar property in an exclusive part of Hobart. The rising interest rates means that he will now need to contribute towards the mortgage on their rentals which will mean a reduced income. Of course they are not using any of their wealth to actual help anyone back in Iran or move any of their family to Australia, preferring to adopt "Western Ways" of focusing on their own wealth building, whilst sending thoughts and prayers.

What.The.Fuck has happened to Australia? Millions of people will struggle to keep their homes, many will lose their jobs, homes and everything they worked for just so big business and banks can make billions and the rich lament that their wealth will slow without care or concern for people who will struggle and some even fail to afford basic human rights such as food and accommodation. Of course people doing it tough know what it's like to struggle and are the most willing to share anything extra they may have.

Its a disgrace that the Liberals created such an adversarial divide between the have and have nots. You can only hope that when people start stealing to live, they take Squidys bikes first.

the liberals didn't force people to over extend on their mortgage or force 30% of them to to lie on their mortgage applications.

Nothing wrong with the iranian doctor pulling himself up from the worst of possible situations and becoming wealthy. He should be celebrated for his successes. Not ragged on because he worked hard to get where he is.

 

[Squidfayce]

So a poll of people who earn above $200k+ per year?

Yes. My position is that the majority that stand to directly personally benefit wouldn't vote to give it up.

 

[Scotty T]

a "nationall;y representative" sample includes people who don't stand to personally benefit. That wasn't what i asked you for, is it?

That sample will include MORE people who dont stand to benefit by virtue of being nationally representative. So no surprise that more would vote to repeal.

Like i said, show me a poll representative of only those that stand to benefit +10K.

Seriously? Poor people vote too. Why would anyone just ask people who benefit, when this is a whole country issue that affects everyone? Why should the wealthy get the say?