Hope Tech3 V4s - how are they better than Sram?

[Nautonier]

I've recently swapped out some Guide RSCs for the Hope V4s and I'm not loving them. The issues I have are:

1. They don't seem to have as much power as the RSCs
2. When freshly bled they pump up really well and the lever throw is quite short, which I like as I can run the levers closer to the bars. After a few runs, the bite point has to be wound all the way in as the lever throw increases dramatically. I end up having to wind the levers too far out from the bars in order to not have the engagement right in by the bars.
3. I really don't like the lever design - the 'knob' on the end crushes the middle finger unless the levers are wound a really long way out. Sram and Shimano have tapered this out for this very reason (see pic).

So yeah, basically really underwhelmed at this stage, but wondering if I'm missing something. They are super easy to bleed though. Is there any way I can reduce the lever throw?

 

[Mywifesirrational]

V4 are awesome:

In regards to point number 1: they should be significantly more powerful than a Guide. Is they issue they way the power comes on - hope are great for modulation, hence the initial lever stroke wont throw you over the bars, I found this unsettling on my initial rides. However, if you pull the lever a bit harder the power is there (or should be).

In regards to point number 2: sounds like a bleed issue, air in the caliper moving through the lines maybe as the brakes are used and heat up a bit. All the hopes I have ridden have been very consistent at the lever even when trying to melt a rotor down the delatite for lols.

In regards to numeber 3: I run the levers in a fairway (towards stem) no issues here with squishing other fingers, personal thing.

 

[pink poodle]

^ I like wise have the levers a long way in towards the stem and back to the bar. I don't have any hand crushing issues.

Did you get the braided cables? It sounds like you didn't and really should have. They make a massive difference to power and feel.

 

[Minlak]

^ I like wise have the levers a long way in towards the stem and back to the bar. I don't have any hand crushing issues.

Did you get the braided cables? It sounds like you didn't and really should have. They make a massive difference to power and feel.

It makes a difference tour wallet and perception not the actual braking effectiveness...

*and cue debate ..... go .... maybe he needs bigger rotors too?

 

[pink poodle]

It makes a difference tour wallet and perception not the actual braking effectiveness...

*and cue debate ..... go .... maybe he needs bigger rotors too?

I was going to suggest a cable splitter and dual rotors.

 

[Nautonier]

I've tried bleeding them several times and always end up with too much lever throw. Non-braided cables, 200mm/180mm Hope floating rotors.

I guess the power does come on a lot later, making them feel gutless compared to Sram. I just don't like how the power comes on about when the lever is starting to crush my middle finger... I've tried running them in further towards the stem, but that feels all wrong in terms of leverage.

 

[Sethius]

The hope comes all down to the bleed. Taking the time to do all the smaller steps really pays off. Rolling the seals on etc. They should blow the guides out of the water in terms of bite. The BPC should really come down to nearly zero throw.

 

[Oddjob]

1. The Hopes should kill the guides for power, but you really need the braided lines. I know that Hope say it doesn't make a difference, but my fat arse says otherwise.
2. Multipots are a pain to bleed. I run 6 pots and two different sets of 4 pots are they are all a shit to bleed. If you find the Hopes easy, then you're doing something wrong.

If you get the perfect bleed then you won't need to bleed again for a long time.
3. Hope, Straitline and a few aftermarket makers make different style levers.
4. Shimano Saints/Zees are cheaper and better.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[link1896]

Check this out http://enduro-mtb.com/en/best-mtb-disc-brake-can-buy/2/
E4's are more powerful then Guide RS. There is no leverage difference between RS and RSC, so expect same force exerted values.

V4 is even stronger then E4.

What pads were in the Guides? What pads in the V4's?

Bleeding multi piston calipers can be a bitch, your issues of throw/bite point/pump up are bad bleed related. Even vacuum bleeding guides can be tricky.

 

[schred]

Are there other pad options for them? Doesn't seem to be well developed with pushy brake pads (the old resin vs sintered seems to stump 90% of people) but they can engineer different characteristics of the pads pretty easily e.g. higher braking coefficient early on (sharper initial bite) vs incremental feel over time & temperature

 

[link1896]

Are there other pad options for them? Doesn't seem to be well developed with pushy brake pads (the old resin vs sintered seems to stump 90% of people) but they can engineer different characteristics of the pads pretty easily e.g. higher braking coefficient early on (sharper initial bite) vs incremental feel over time & temperature

I'm not talking from experience here, no hope on my bikes. A quick look at the product page, Hope offers standard and sintered.

Standard is hard to discover what it actually is via a quick google.

Kookstop seems to have resin. I'd go resin personally, wears mega fast, crap in the wet, but I love the initial bite.

 

[pink poodle]

Have you looked into hybrid systems?

 

[slider_phil]

I'd say something's gone wrong somewhere. I went from guide RS to Hope E4s with 180mm floating rotors f+r and I'll never go back. Better modulation and more power. But I actually like how it takes a bigger throw to get maximum power. Keep in mind in only 76kg so your milage may vary.

Edit: my guides have needed bleeding a few times and the other week I needed to replace the sticking pistons as they became basically unrideable. Basically once I can be bothered they will be replaced on the spare bike too

 

[Nautonier]

Thanks for the replies, great to get some different perspectives and insight into what might be going on. Interesting that nobody has found Sram brakes to be better than Hopes, although I haven't heard from anyone with the new Sram Code RSCs.

I had metallic sintered pads in my RSCs and not sure what are in the V4s. I suspect they might be crap pads as they look different to the (spare) Hope branded pads that came with them when I got them. I'll revisit the bleed process as I suspect that they might still have air in the system. Not sure about "rolling the seals on" as they appear to be attached to the reservoir cap. I think this step relates to older models? I've heard that sucking air out of the callipers can give a better bleed than pumping fluid through the system, so I'll give that a go. The 2 or 3 bleeds I've done so far have be exactly according to the Hope instructions/video.

I rode them at Bright today on World Cup and Mystic and was bonding with them a lot more. The power seemed better on long and steep runs and the modulation was excellent. I'm getting used to the longer lever throw and fortunately it stays really constant - even on long runs with lots of heavy braking.

 

[slider_phil]

That was my finding too after long downhill runs. My Guides would be fading towards the bottom but the Hopes have been super consistent on even the longest runs. I'll also mention that I hate the Sram Vacuum bleeding procedure lol. Shimano and Hope are much more user friendly in my experience there.

 

[teK--]

Assuming you have had a good bleed and no air stuck behind a piston, or a leak in the lines (use a crows foot attachment on a torque wrench to properly tighten the hose connectors), it is just going to be a case of acclimatising to the different feel. Although the Guides are fairly well modulated they are still geared towards coming on quite hard off the top. Hopes are fairly linear which mean if you want to lock up you really have to squeeze hard. The good thing though is that it is not easy to accidentally lock up causing you to lose traction.

If the lever is hitting your middle finger then you need to wind your lever out further to start off or reduce your BPC setting. I can lock mine up with the lever stopping about 3-4mm short of hitting my finger but it is still within comfortable reach of my index finger.

 

[Nautonier]

Assuming you have had a good bleed and no air stuck behind a piston, or a leak in the lines (use a crows foot attachment on a torque wrench to properly tighten the hose connectors), it is just going to be a case of acclimatising to the different feel. Although the Guides are fairly well modulated they are still geared towards coming on quite hard off the top. Hopes are fairly linear which mean if you want to lock up you really have to squeeze hard. The good thing though is that it is not easy to accidentally lock up causing you to lose traction.

If the lever is hitting your middle finger then you need to wind your lever out further to start off or reduce your BPC setting. I can lock mine up with the lever stopping about 3-4mm short of hitting my finger but it is still within comfortable reach of my index finger.

You're spot on regarding the more linear nature, which takes a bit of getting used to. I've reduced the BPC setting to the absolute minimum amount of lever throw and now have the levers wound out to a point where they also come within a hair of hitting the finger. With these settings, my levers are significantly further out than with my RSCs, which is doable, but only just. I had a run with them further out and they felt truly horrible.

I'm still wondering how people do a bleed that gives them less lever throw. Ideally I'd like to have my BPC set somewhere in the middle, so there's room to move.

 

[Boom King]

Do some creative lever blade shaping. My newly remodeled Formula RO blade comes nowhere near my knuckles....

 

[pink poodle]

I'm still wondering how people do a bleed that gives them less lever throw.

I'm pretty lazy with my hope bleeds...pop the reservoir and top it up...with my xt brakes I wind the adjustments all the way out for reach and bpc. The run the juice through and firm them up. Close off and wind the adjustments to where I like them. This might work on the hopes. I'll likely try something like that next time I bleed them. If I can be bothered. I haven't felt the need before as they work so well as is.

Do some creative lever blade shaping. My newly remodeled Formula RO blade comes nowhere near my knuckles....

I'll bet you don't like him anywhere near them!

 

[link1896]

The gap between the end of the grip and the brake lever clamp is huge. How long are those levers when not crumpled?