FOUND Starling MegaMurmur

[Oddjob]

Not announcing the race of the people who taxed your bike is not the same thing as denying that some indigenous communities have social problems. I don't understand how one implies the other.

Some predominantly white areas have social issues, some areas with lots of Lebanese have issues and in the 1980s the Vietnamese areas had issues. All societies and cultures have problem communities. I've never seen anyone on here say "A white guy stole my bike", or "A Sudanese kid flogged my ride". I'd bet it's because that when all races and cultures have thieves and problematic communities the phenotype of the person who did the act is redundant information. Yet being explicit about that information can cause harm in some situations.

Like I said, I get where you are coming from.

But I don't remember anyone getting run over and killed for stealing a motorbike in Cabramatta.

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[johnny]

Like I said, I get where you are coming from.

But I don't remember anyone getting run over and killed for stealing a motorbike in Cabramatta.

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Sure, I don't know how outing a thieve's race on an internet forum does anything to fix a problem that we're all aware of either.

I can see how it might have a negative impact on others who are totally unrelated to the theft, though.

 

[clockworked]

How likely is it that members of the indigenous community are frequenting this site? Purely on population statistics and geographic distribution alone, it may not be very likely that the nexus of recreational mountain bikers, and pedantic internet nerds is represented in the community.
Seems like the effort being put in here might be better spent closing the gap elsewhere.

 

[johnny]

How likely is it that members of the indigenous community are frequenting this site? Purely on population statistics and geographic distribution alone, it may not be very likely that the nexus of recreational mountain bikers, and pedantic internet nerds is represented in the community.
Seems like the effort being put in here might be better spent closing the gap elsewhere.

Yeah, not what I'm getting at.

The problem isn't that people might be offended. The problem is that @Wake Jake didn't feel like the fact of whether the people were male, female, old, young, skinny, short or anything else was worth mentioning, but he felt like the fact of their race was worth mentioning. That might imply he felt that their race was relevant to the theft, otherwise he would hve mentioned all the other facts about the people he got the bike off, right?

However, the real problem that I'm trying to address is that mentioning their race, when it's not really relevant, might contribute to issues around racism and creating unfair biases against other indigenous folk that had nothing to do with the theft. And that won't fix any of the actual problems facing the community he lives near might experience.

 

[oldcorollas]

hopefully the theft of the bike will be added to their charges.... (regardless of it being recovered)

they are getting charged right? and that will discourage them from doing it again next week?

(the guy that broke into my house years ago was never charged, despite cops DNA identifying them from the claret left behind due to squeezing through a small broken window)

 

[Oddjob]

hopefully the theft of the bike will be added to their charges.... (regardless of it being recovered)

they are getting charged right? and that will discourage them from doing it again next week?

(the guy that broke into my house years ago was never charged, despite cops DNA identifying them from the claret left behind due to squeezing through a small broken window)

Sorry admins, feel free to move.

I used to work in this policy area. Indigenous Australians are massively over represented in all of the crime/justice statistics to the point that they stand out a couple of standard deviations from every one else. To harp on @johnny's point, it's difficult to correlate crime in a lga with any particular racial group, except indigenous Australians.

Does this mean that indigenous Australian's are well served by the justice system? No. Does this mean that indigenous Australian's are innocent of all the crime they have been accused of? Also no. If anything, if there was more consistent enforcement, the prison system would have even more indigenous Australians in them. But crime is only the most visible symptom of a much deeper problem.

I'm not a psychologist, but the research tells me that happy, healthy, well educated people in a well functioning community don't tend to end up committing crimes and in the justice system. Guess how most indigenous communities look by comparison.

So, if there is a huge spike in crime in regional areas with a high proportion of indigenous Australians following COVID, due to a whole cohort of indigenous kids dropping out of school during the lockdowns, and having even less prospects than usual. And there continues to be patchy policing and no real progress on dealing with the ultimate causes of disadvantage. Leading to a lot of bad blood in regional areas and vigilantism.

I think Wake Jake's efforts to get his bike back without resorting to violence like his neighbour, should be applauded.

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[Cardy George]

However, the real problem that I'm trying to address is that mentioning their race, when it's not really relevant, might contribute to issues around racism and creating unfair biases against other indigenous folk that had nothing to do with the theft. And that won't fix any of the actual problems facing the community he lives near might experience.

I'm of the opinion that we are still a full generation away from being able to start to resolve this.

I don't know Jake from a bar of soap, but I do know my Good Ol' Uncle Pete. Unky Pete is over 70, is an absolute legend of an uncle, volunteers for numerous groups, could never have kids so absolutely adores mine and others, an absolute pillar of society. But Unky Pete was brought up in far far west NSW, in a town that still has systemic issues with its indigenous community, so purely as a result of his life experience, he sees nothing wrong with calling them darkies etc.

It's obviously not right, but it is ingrained in his persona, so I think until that generation has passed, and the current generation of kids who are being taught the right way of life start to have an influence, it's going to be a hard battle.

 

[Oddjob]

Back to our usual programming.

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[oldcorollas]

Sorry admins, feel free to move.

I used to work in this policy area. Indigenous Australians are massively over represented in all of the crime/justice statistics to the point that they stand out a couple of standard deviations from every one else. To harp on @johnny's point, it's difficult to correlate crime in a lga with any particular racial group, except indigenous Australians.

Does this mean that indigenous Australian's are well served by the justice system? No. Does this mean that indigenous Australian's are innocent of all the crime they have been accused of? Also no. If anything, if there was more consistent enforcement, the prison system would have even more indigenous Australians in them. But crime is only the most visible symptom of a much deeper problem.

I'm not a psychologist, but the research tells me that happy, healthy, well educated people in a well functioning community don't tend to end up committing crimes and in the justice system. Guess how most indigenous communities look by comparison.

So, if there is a huge spike in crime in regional areas with a high proportion of indigenous Australians following COVID, due to a whole cohort of indigenous kids dropping out of school during the lockdowns, and having even less prospects than usual. And there continues to be patchy policing and no real progress on dealing with the ultimate causes of disadvantage. Leading to a lot of bad blood in regional areas and vigilantism.

I think Wake Jake's efforts to get his bike back without resorting to violence like his neighbour, should be applauded.

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I deliberately didn't refer to race, w/r to being charged. Rather, the prospect of a future deterrent, or not, from this incident. (Justice system should be seen as both deterrent and punishment no?)

If i must, the guy that broke into my house was very white, with a shade of meth

I ponder whether "stealing for need" eg to buy food/drugs, is better or worse than "stealing for fun" eg nicking bikes, or joyriding cars...

 

[johnny]

Sorry admins, feel free to move.

I used to work in this policy area. Indigenous Australians are massively over represented in all of the crime/justice statistics to the point that they stand out a couple of standard deviations from every one else. To harp on @johnny's point, it's difficult to correlate crime in a lga with any particular racial group, except indigenous Australians.

Does this mean that indigenous Australian's are well served by the justice system? No. Does this mean that indigenous Australian's are innocent of all the crime they have been accused of? Also no. If anything, if there was more consistent enforcement, the prison system would have even more indigenous Australians in them. But crime is only the most visible symptom of a much deeper problem.

I'm not a psychologist, but the research tells me that happy, healthy, well educated people in a well functioning community don't tend to end up committing crimes and in the justice system. Guess how most indigenous communities look by comparison.

So, if there is a huge spike in crime in regional areas with a high proportion of indigenous Australians following COVID, due to a whole cohort of indigenous kids dropping out of school during the lockdowns, and having even less prospects than usual. And there continues to be patchy policing and no real progress on dealing with the ultimate causes of disadvantage. Leading to a lot of bad blood in regional areas and vigilantism.

I think Wake Jake's efforts to get his bike back without resorting to violence like his neighbour, should be applauded.

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No problem with that content at all, also happy that @Wake Jake got his bike back seemingly through positive means. But it's this kind of context that's required otherwise a simple "black kids flogged my bike" content is likely to do more harm - pretty minor harm in the greater context, but harm none the less.