10spd?

[Bonnet]

well its been done with Dura-ace and now even Ultegra, when do you think the advent of 10spd XTR or XT will take place?

thats not too say that we need it or even want it, but i remain confident that shimano will introduce it sometime or other, and in saying that, people will be buying it.

i know this is a fairly DH and freeride orientated forum, so many of the huckwits views may be negative on this topic, but what about the XC'ers. what are their views on this? is the addition of an extra gear going to be much more of an advantage? considering that the range of 11-32, 34 or 12 32, 34 will most likely remain the same and just mean a closer ratio (to find the perfect cadence for the terrain). will the narrow 10spd chains be strong enough for off-road abuse? (bear in mind that roadies are pushing big rings and putting alot of torque through 10spd chains to the freewheel).

i'm just curious to see peoples views on this matter.

ASH

 

[naz]

on dh with a skinner chain it could be more suceptable to skipping and bouncing onto diff gears...

my thought...

 

[wombat]

How about they wait until they can make a decent 9spd system.

Viva la devolution!

 

[Grover]

i think it would be nice to have a smaller jump between gears and so shimano will try and bring 10spd xtr out.

i don't think it'll take off though, like their dual control, as if you want smaller jumps on your cassette you use a 20/30/42 chainring setup with a 12-27 road cassette and you have your small granny and nice gear jumps.

on the other hand no one will buy it, except companies that spec it on their bikes, because it'll still use dual control and sram's better anyway.

cya, john.

 

[Spooky]

I don't think 10 speed for MTB will take off. It will happen and it will be on stock standard XC bikes soon. Simply for the fact of the chains are getting so thin and becoming ever so weaker i think is the reason people are turned off the idea.
As a roadie myself, there is no need IMO for 10 gears. I use 9 speed Ultegra and thats fine, it is the perfect gear ratio for me .
My 2c anyway.....what do you downhiller's think? would you use it?

 

[junior]

I don't think 10 speed for MTB will take off. It will happen and it will be on stock standard XC bikes soon. Simply for the fact of the chains are getting so thin and becoming ever so weaker i think is the reason people are turned off the idea.
As a roadie myself, there is no need IMO for 10 gears. I use 9 speed Ultegra and thats fine, it is the perfect gear ratio for me .
My 2c anyway.....what do you downhiller's think? would you use it?

gear ratio.......... where on dam junior gears Luke.
and the 10spd dura ace chains only hold up to about 3000km of abuse most of the elite riders around here reckon. I will be going to 10spd dura ace soon because they have nearly wiped out the old 9spd dura ace and is quit hard to get. the 10spd levers are the go to.

 

[Rik]

I'd rather see something innovative done with drivetrains (ie, internal gearing), not this current fad of compromising other aspects of the bike (ie, wheel dish, chain width) just to allow another sprocket.
A 2x9 setup gives me all I could ask for in a drivetrain, I doubt an extra gear would be worth the compromise.
Although, that said, it might be somewhat viable on 150mm rear wheels, the extra width there could cope with another sprocket without making everything else narrower, but the question still begs... why?

 

[toodles]

10 speed? I still want a decent 8 speed back....

 

[Spooky]

I don't think 10 speed for MTB will take off. It will happen and it will be on stock standard XC bikes soon. Simply for the fact of the chains are getting so thin and becoming ever so weaker i think is the reason people are turned off the idea.
As a roadie myself, there is no need IMO for 10 gears. I use 9 speed Ultegra and thats fine, it is the perfect gear ratio for me .
My 2c anyway.....what do you downhiller's think? would you use it?

gear ratio.......... where on dam junior gears Luke.

Maybe so, but i don't need 10 gears....its not that big of a jump between some gears..but yeh :?

 

[Bonnet]

its interesting, there does seem to be a lot of negative thoughts, where there is a lot of praise for the 10spd dura-ace. this is mainly due to the significant weight reduction of older 9spd (i mean come on! cranks that float!). personally i wouldn't be buying 10spd MTB products, but i wouldn't be buying XT or XTR der.s anyway.

as far as i know, wheel dish doesn't play a big part in the introduction of 10spd when converted from 9spd. it uses the same freehub and the cogs are just packed a little tighter.

what Grover said about the 12-27 road cassette stands true, you can get some nice smooth gear shifts, and depending on how you set it up, jumps of only 1 tooth at a time (to an extent).

maybe a good area to use the 10spd xtr would be in cyclo-cross or off road touring. especially in mountainous regions in Europe and such.

the reason i asked this question was, i fitted a 10spd dura-ace set to a fuel 90 custom spec frame( replaced the 9spd XTR). At the moment its spec'd for commuting, but is used quite often for MTB legs of off-road triathlons and MTB XC races, etc.

ASH

 

[Rik]

What shifter did you use? I'm guessing you're stuck with 10spd STI shifters?
I'm pretty sure wheel dish has been changed, I'll confirm tonight. It's pretty much irrelevant on road bikes, but us MTB'ers have quite different demands.
As for the weight reduction, that's because quite a few changes came at once (ie, hollowtech II), the 10 speed bit had nothing to do with it. If you want weight reduction, pick up the new Token fully cnd'd billet aluminium 9 speed cassette. One piece of aluminium, machined down, holy shit it's light :shock:
Cyclocross racers get muddier than most XC racers do, I wouldn't want to think of the drivetrain hell that'd break loose when a 10speed system packs with mud! And tourers need a wide range of gears, not neccesarily a close range of gears, so a triple chainring set combined with a broadly spaced cassette would be better than having a 10spd sprocket. Although you could do both, which would give advantages, the narrower chain business still scares me.
Yes, I'm being openly negative about it, but I'm with wombat, I'd wait until 9 speed has the bugs ironed out before wanting to change to 10 speed.
If every MTB went to 150mm or 165mm rear end, we could probably run a 10 speed system with 8 speed spacing/chain/dimensions, and that'd be sweet... except for the mess at the chainring end of it all :? but as I said, internal gearing is where it's at, not a bandaid slap-on solution.

 

[Bonnet]

thats fair enough Rik, in my view its fine to have a negative view on this. i hope that the industry does some R+D before implementing a 10spd system and find out that its not warranted (as seen by the end users).

the shifters i used were the 10spd bar end shifter (http://www.dura-ace.com/publish/con...ifting.ExtraMainContentPar.0002.Image.0.0.gif), on the end of some syntace tri-bars. at first i jerry rigged it onto a set of cheapo avenir bar ends, so that he didnt have to get onto the tri-bars everytime he wanted to shift (especially round corners) but it was two messy, i might have another go at it and drill some better pilot holes for the cables. the cluster just went straight onto a set of shimano wh-m540 wheels. im not sure but the 10spd Campag Record might be a little different. i'll get some pics if i hook it up to the bar ends, just for a novelty.

i didnt get to go, being over in perth and all, but was there anything at the trade show that might indicate a vast improvement in drivetrain technology, such as internal and what not?

ASH

 

[Arran]

My initial thought was that Shimano wouldn't do a 10 speed MTB drivetrain but the more I think about it the more I reckon they'll do it. I remember scoffing when 'The Big S' brought out XTR in 8 speed! The murmer around the traps was that 8 gears was excessive. :shock:

 

[bighitter]

heres a 10 speed mountain groupset set from a small company called Recon,

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[Grover]

heres a 10 speed mountain groupset set from a small company called Recon

interesting, especially the number of teeth on the cassette, 11-36. that'd be the end of granny rings forever.

 

[luckyphil]

does that mean you have to use a road rear deurilluer?
also, would there be an issue with front d. compatibility?

 

[Grover]

does that mean you have to use a road rear deurilluer?
also, would there be an issue with front d. compatibility?

there are two reasons for not using a road rear derailleur:

1- you don't have to use one as 8, 9 and 10 speed cassettes are all the same width, they just have different gaps between cogs and therefore a skinnier chain. any 8, 9 or 10 speed rear derailleur will work as long as the shifter has the same number of gears as the cassette. the rear derailleur only moves as far or as little as the shifter allows.

2-it would be impossible to use a road rear derailleur as they'd have no chance of spanning an 11-36 range, i don't even know of any mtb rear derailleurs that are made to span 11-36. most state the biggest cog they're compatible with is a 34.

no issues with front derailleur due once again to the spacing issue, the cassette isn't any wider so the front derailleur cage doesn't have to be any wider. if you're referring to cable pull ratio's then that's not a concern either as all front mech's use the same, sram or shimano.

cya, john.