2010/2011 vic state cross country series

[felixmtb]

Ok, so just to get the ball rolling on the upcoming vic state cross country series '10/'11, anybody got any questions? other than mine...
Yes, it is a fair way away, but I'm sure there are meetings etc going on throughout the upcoming months about the series.

Does anybody know dates and venues?
Is there a website by any chance, like the VDHS?

 

[akashra]

Felix,

It's a little premature to say anything about the upcoming series. All I can really say is that any details are still quite some way off, as it's only now being worked on to ensure we don't get a repeat of the 2009/2010 season. While there may be meetings involving the club presidents, not much will be said publicly until it's been decided everythings ready. This applies for the three major state series.

There will be a unified website, there will likely also be a unified website bringing the DH, XCE and XCO series together, something Matt (DH), the XCO series co-ordinator, and myself will work on together.

 

[felixmtb]

ok that sounds really good.
I was just asking because the dh series has already been finalised and is ready to roll...

 

[el~rio]

Anybody got any questions??

Not sure where to post this so I did in few different places but anyway.

I was filling in dates of event I'm interested in on my calender and noticed that Round 2 of the National XC Series and the Victorian State XCO Championship are on the same weekend at the same venue.

Can anyone explain how this is going to work. Eg incorporate into 1 race or national races on Saturday, Vic races on Sunday?

 

[akashra]

Not sure where to post this so I did in few different places but anyway.

I was filling in dates of event I'm interested in on my calender and noticed that Round 2 of the National XC Series and the Victorian State XCO Championship are on the same weekend at the same venue.

Can anyone explain how this is going to work. Eg incorporate into 1 race or national races on Saturday, Vic races on Sunday?

It will be the same race. The highest placegetter in the Nationals race who resides in Victoria will be declared the Victorian State Champion.

 

[el~rio]

Wow that was quick and thanks for clearing that up.

Oh well, looks like I can kiss goodbye my hopes of another top 5 finish for the Vic Champs like last time
Unfortunately I live on the NSW/Vic border, just on the NSW side, so do all the Vic series and champs (less travel than the NSW series!) and was hoping to do well as this is my last year as a junior (U19).

How about making competitors enter one or the other ie enter the Vic Champs or enter the National Round, but still have them at the same time?

 

[akashra]

Wow that was quick and thanks for clearing that up.

Oh well, looks like I can kiss goodbye my hopes of another top 5 finish for the Vic Champs like last time
Unfortunately I live on the NSW/Vic border, just on the NSW side, so do all the Vic series and champs (less travel than the NSW series!) and was hoping to do well as this is my last year as a junior (U19).

How about making competitors enter one or the other ie enter the Vic Champs or enter the National Round, but still have them at the same time?

Uhm. No.

The result of that would be something like the 22nd place Victorian gets called the State Champion, that's just BS. If we wanted to do that, the event would just be run at another venue altogether on the same weekend.

 

[el~rio]

This is all getting a bit complicated but how about Victorian riders being an exception and entered in both.

And aren't State races suppose to be a stepping stone to National races, not the same.

Anyway this has probably discouraged me from racing although I'll probably race anyway, don't know what its going to do to mine, or other state level racers self esteem.

Or just forget I said anything and I'll crawl back under the nearest rock

Rant over, I'm sure there's more to come but I'll shut my trap for now.

 

[Bodin]

Subscribe

I don't have any questions, but I reckon this will become the "official thread" on this topic, so keen to see when dates/venues come up, etc...

Good luck to the organisers - I really enjoyed the 3 races I did last season and have been looking forward to making up for the broken arm that stopped me from completing it.

 

[akashra]

This is all getting a bit complicated but how about Victorian riders being an exception and entered in both.

That's a different question to what you asked before, and the answer is they are.

 

[el~rio]

That's a different question to what you asked before, and the answer is they are.

Yes, but other riders able to enter that instead of the National round, say the ones that are state level.

Or could I get an exception for living 5 minutes from Vic and doing all the Vic XC races last season

EDIT: Was just think and realized that there is probably not that many people that would travel from out of Vic for the Vic Championship and I'm making a big issue out of a small one

 

[Knut]

Victorian XC direction

What we are proposing to do at this stage is make it as simple as possible by attempting to achieve a few things at once. This has not yet been formally decided and will be up to the club presidents to agree upon.

1 November to 28 Feb Introductory races
1 March to 30 June Club and Inter Club races
1 July to 30 October State races
1 November to 28 Feb National races


A year ago XC was dead. So we tried a new format, a series called something fun, involving fun clubs. We called it another name instead of inter-club. Inter Winter has been a huge success so far. So we are considering incorporating this format into the yearly calendar.

What the proposal is at the moment is to have a progression of events over the year. Summer rounds will be tied up with Entry level format i.e. No Frills/Dirt Crits/Chase the Crits.

1 March to June 30 will be club and inter club races. So that regional riders have a gradual introduction to increased intensity. There could be Western, Northern and Eastern interclubs running at the same time to culminate into a preparation for a state series.

1 July to October 30 could be State level races. Again the level of competion is raised. Gradually though and controlled. In November the State Xc champs will be held to finish off the State year of racing and allow riders to be prepared and not distracted by National races. These will be held over November to February.

This concept frees up weekends for Introductory, Club and State level races and is well clear of National events. This allows mountainbikers to also enjoy summer and spend time with their families. There will be less races but of higher quality. As proven in the interwinter series.

A championship event should emilate its' superior round in difficulty. Therefore it is a simple equation to have the State XC run in conjunction to the National round. Other states are following suit. The fastest Victorian at the You Yangs in November will be the State champ of that catagorie. It will be exactly the same race as last years Champ event with a bit more glamour and a few interstate riders.

You will have to be a resident of Victoria to be eligible for Victorian State Champs.

It will be our oppportunity to ride against interstate riders on our home trails and guage where we are as a state. So get out ther and train so we can kick butt.

 

[serowe]

A championship event should emilate its' superior round in difficulty. Therefore it is a simple equation to have the State XC run in conjunction to the National round. Other states are following suit. The fastest Victorian at the You Yangs in November will be the State champ of that catagorie. It will be exactly the same race as last years Champ event with a bit more glamour and a few interstate riders.

With respect Steve - IMHO this is where the thinking is flawed.

To say that the State Championship Event should 'emulate' the next higher level is simply wrong. Each grade should be set at level slightly BELOW the one above - so your Intro races should be just below Club, Club just below State and State just below National which in turn are just below International. Otherwise you might just as well forget about the differing level of competition and just throw the rider into that higher grade straight away.

This is what progression is all about - mastering the one level before you tackle the next, not thoriinw people in at the deepo end without adequate preparation.

As an outsiders POV, incorporating the State and National races together is also a big mistake - your State Championship should be known/decided BEFORE your national series or championship (don't get me started on this BS of having both a National Series AND a National Championship!). And the thought of holding TWO State Championships in the same year is - well, try explaining that to potential sponsors and their riders - regardless of WHAT you call him/her (2011 Champion, Next Years Champion) you STILL end up with two State Champions crowned in the one year - effectively demeaning one or both of them.

Finally - you say 'a year ago XC was dead'. Well of course it appeared to be that way - no communication, no advertising and (the most importatn) absolutely NO follow up after events (here's an exercise for you - anyone - try to EASILY find results of the 2009/2010 Victorian State XC Series - points and final standings. MTBV don't have them available any more - if they did in the first place).

The point here is - don't go blaming the wrong things because this won't fix the problem. How many times did I hear, during the last 12 months, complaints about 'small entry fields' when the club concerned only had to answer a simply question: 'How did you advertise the event?' In most cases it was either 'We didn't need to' or 'The riders already knew' or (the favourite) 'It was on Rotorburn....'

[/soapbox]

 

[jakecycles]

bodin

Good luck to the organisers - I really enjoyed the 3 races I did last season and have been looking forward to making up for the broken arm that stopped me from completing it.[/QUOTE]

Broken arm ? all this time I thought you had a broken bike.

 

[Benizmo]

(here's an exercise for you - anyone - try to EASILY find results of the 2009/2010 Victorian State XC Series - points and final standings. MTBV don't have them available any more - if they did in the first place)
[/soapbox]

Agree that it's not as easy as it should be to find but it is still there on the second page of news items

http://www.mountainbikevictoria.com/News.aspx?Page=1

 

[johndh]

So the idea is to have the 2011 State Champs in 2010, before the State Series starts?
The idea of running the National series inconjunction with the State Champs is maybe a good idea, maybe this should happen in other states also? Would mean MTBA having to work with the state "bodies" ?? Might save $$ and make them better attended events?? might not too?

 

[el~rio]

el~rio dad here, sorry I don't have my own sign on. Hope the moderators don't mind too much.

I would like to pass on my extreme disappointment at the statement that you have to live in Victoria to have a chance at winning the Victorian State Title.

This makes all State title's closed events!

To start with I don't believe the 2 events should be run on the same day, this does not promote the State title in any way shape or form. It's will be seen as an event that will be tacked on to a National event.

There was mention of different tracks for different level events and yet here we have a National event and a state event being held on the same track, go figure!

And a couple more reason's reasons for my extreme disappointment and they are as follows:

As a member of the Albury(NSW)-Wodonga(Vic) MTB club that took time of work to help organize the recent Victoran Enduro round at the Nailcan Hill track in NSW and also being involved in the running of the State XC round a couple of years ago again on the NSW Nailcan Hill track, we are now being told that because we live in NSW we dont qualify for the Victorian Title. We are 2klm from the river and that makes us unworthy. Members of our AWMTB club that live in Wodonga do. This is a ridiculous situation.

Clubs that are on the Vic- NSW border would undoubtedly support the Victorian races simply because of the distance required to travel to NSW events.

Solution, riders that are licensed through border clubs should be able to compete in Victorian events. What I mean here is that I am a registered member of AWmtb and I purchase my license through our club. I am not a licensed rider from say Wagga joining AWMTB to compete at Vic events.

Our family traveled to the Victorian XC series and the State title last(this) year with our daughter winning the WU17 VIC State title in both disciplines. If we are not eligible, is their any point in competing? We will not be traveling all over NSW chasing a series or State title. The cost of travel and accommodation is overwhelming.

I would like to see the State Title held 2-3 weeks before the National title giving those that want to go to the National's a good hit out with out having to do the Nat series, and let's go right out on a limb here and select a track for the State title that is as close to the National Title track as can be. Allowing those the chance to practice the terrain that they might encounter at the National race. Fast flowing, lot's of rock garden's or what ever the organizers dream up.

Cheers
Doug Rose

 

[akashra]

The general idea is that a club championship be the same level as a state round, a state championship the same level as a national round, a national championship the same level as a uci world cup round.

The issue of riders from Albury has been discussed briefly, but there are two issues.
1. We need to ensure in fairness that any rider can only be eligible for one state championship. It would be unfair to allow them to contest, say, the NSW state champ, come second, and then decide "okay, I'll try for Vic instead". If we decide to hold the State Championships in Mildura or Portland next year, but NSW decides to hold them in Albury, I can see a back-flip occurring.
2. In the long term we want to re-develop a program with VIS. This may pose problems with interstate riders.
3. The timing of events is an on-going evolution and for this year isn't ready for the full cycle of change. That change will require at least a full season to properly plan, so we can't just stick a state champ event on in October at this late stage. There are also major events on all but one week of October this year.
4. This is entirely in line with the National championships - international riders can enter, but can/will not be declared national champion for winning the race. This has happened, btw.
5. They're not closed events, any rider can participate, but there is eligibility criteria for the title of state champion.
6. If you're unhappy with the location and venues of the NSW state series, then that's an issue that you need to address with them.

 

[serowe]

3. The timing of events is an on-going evolution and for this year isn't ready for the full cycle of change. That change will require at least a full season to properly plan, so we can't just stick a state champ event on in October at this late stage. There are also major events on all but one week of October this year.

I think the point being made before though, and johndh also stated it - this is STILL 2010 so why is the 2011 State Championship event being held (or proposed to be held) only SEVEN months after the 2010 Championship event was held? Just when it looks like the XC series is starting to get itself organised and back on its feet again a ludicrous idea like this gets put forward.

And have to be honest and say that I know of no other sporting event where each level of competition is aimed as has been suggested - that state courses should be set to national level expertise. What this basically says is that there is no such level as state (oh sorry it is - is is called club!)

 

[el~rio]

2 issues: Easily solved

Border clubs nominate which State they wish to be aligned with and that is the only State title they can compete at.

Whilst living in NSW I have represented Victorian country in waterpolo and hockey because the associations for both sports were aligned with Victoria.

There is no reason the same could not be done for cycling. That is if promoting cycling is the aim here. 3 hours from Melbourne, 6 hours from Sydney. Which institute of sport would you be able to be involved with?

As for October, not sure what you are on about there. I suggested the State Title be held 2-3 weeks before the National Title. Which I think is in February is it not?

Nice crack about NSW events when Vic mtb run events in NSW.

This is a fine way to reward AWMTB members that live on the wrong side of the river for the work that went into the recent Vic State Enduro round.

Another Border anomaly, it should not be this hard!

Doug Rose