$400 = A life!

[V10]

What do you guys think of the fine of $400, the Hell rider got for running a red light and killing someone? Absolute garbage, I rekon. Im sorry i dont have the whole story available, but the inital incident was covered on here a while back. The cyclist was charge today, with running a red light. Incuring a $400 fine. Even the maximun fine of $550 wasnt dealt. He was not charge with the death of the pedestrian. What a load of crap.

 

[LIAM?!]

ridiculous, i would of defiantly put him in jail.

 

[Topple's]

I was just about to post the same thing. Very very ordinary. He should be behind bars.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...ll-ride-cyclist/2007/08/08/1186530408206.html

 

[Plow King]

Why do you want to lock him up? The guy has to deal with the emotional tramua of knowing he killed someone his whole life, which is alot worse than having a 100 000 fine. or being locked up.


I can gaurentee alot of riders on this site have run red lights. It's one of those things that happens, very unlucky. We all know he shouldn't have done it, but how many deaths are caused my cyclists running red lights? I'm guessing very few.

Stuff like this happens all the time, like cyclists constantly getting mowed down, and pedestrians always getting hit by unaware drivers.

My $0.02

 

[LIAM?!]

It's the fact that he ran a red light, disobeyed the law, if it was green and the person was doing wrong, then maybe a little gratitude, but i mean break the law and get punished.

 

[heath_92]

Yeah not right. And it puts a bad name on other road cyclist that just mosey along keeping out of everyones way.. Just my $0.000002 (twice what i have left after buying my bike)

 

[demo man]

Yeah, I dunno. I'm kind of over the whole 'hard punishment to go with a hard crime' thing - if punishment is still meant to be about prevention, then not too much really needs to be done here - it was a total accident, the occurrence itself may have some impact on the Hell Riders (lets hope!) and will certainly make the police more aware of them (possibly try and do something about it), and assuming the rider is feeling the way I imagine I would feel if I'd done that, well, he won't be a Hell Rider ever again.

So, I don't see the point of jail time. It's not like he's an overall menace to society or anything, he ran a red light, and he was unlucky.

Although, I suppose if a driver was fined $400 after running a red-ight and killing a cyclist I'd be beside myself, stereo-typing him as a classic anti-bike driver in a big 4WD and all that, so, yeah, I dunno.

 

[floody]

We have had a driver "look away" from the road, T-bone a family car and kill an occupant, and get penalised a whole 3 points and $110 recently.

 

[Garrath]

I believe he was charged with running a red light and only a red light. He pleaded guilty and copped the fine.

 

[mtb1611]

Why do you want to lock him up? The guy has to deal with the emotional tramua of knowing he killed someone his whole life, which is alot worse than having a 100 000 fine. or being locked up.


I can gaurentee alot of riders on this site have run red lights. It's one of those things that happens, very unlucky. We all know he shouldn't have done it, but how many deaths are caused my cyclists running red lights? I'm guessing very few.

Stuff like this happens all the time, like cyclists constantly getting mowed down, and pedestrians always getting hit by unaware drivers.

My $0.02

Mate no offence but that's an extremely subjective post. If a driver ran a red light and inadvertently killed a cyclist, what would your stance be? We can't expect the same respect and rights as vehicle drivers if we aren't subjected to appropriate consequences when we err. Let's be frank here, this guy KILLED SOMEONE.

 

[Ryan]

Mate no offence but that's an extremely subjective post. If a driver ran a red light and inadvertently killed a cyclist, what would your stance be? We can't expect the same respect and rights as vehicle drivers if we aren't subjected to appropriate consequences when we err. Let's be frank here, this guy KILLED SOMEONE.

Agree 100% with that one. He didn't accidentally run a red light either for those of you claiming that. He deliberately and knowingly ran a red light to stay in a bunch and keep up with an illegal street race.

Defence lawyer Michael Sharpley said Raisin-Shaw found himself in the middle of a pack, some who yelled "rolling, rolling" to indicate their intention to run the red light.

If it was two hoons street racing their Skylines who deliberately ran a red light and killed a cyclist I'd like to see what your responses were.

If we want respect and tolerance on our roads from drivers, we have to be seen to be held to the same standards of responsible driving that they are. Next time you're commuting in peak hour, consider the fact that the idiot who cuts you off or nearly kills you is probably thinking "Stupid bloody cyclists, don't pay taxes, don't follow the road rules AND get away with killing people".

I say; jail the bastard.

 

[-Elliot-]

I live on the Mornington Peninsula and regularly see the hell ride take place. The only thing i can liken it to is the running of the bulls, because once it starts it doesn't stop. When you have a stream of cyclists over 100m long half of them aren't even aware of a red light when one occurs. Knowing this I don't understand how that old man stepped in front of all those bikes at the pace they were going at. I mean if you were crossing a road and you saw a car that wasn't going to stop you wouldn't step out in front of it to prove a point would you? I do believe that the peanalty for the cyclist that struck the man was weak, but i also believe something should be done about the hell ride, and pedestrians common sense.

 

[johnny]

Why do you want to lock him up? The guy has to deal with the emotional tramua of knowing he killed someone his whole life, which is alot worse than having a 100 000 fine. or being locked up.

Well that pretty much means that anyone who maims or kills anyone out of negligence is allowed to get away with a slap ont he wrist. Which then means that I can set up to manslaughter the dickhead down stairs who was hammering away at 9am this morning...., I'm on holidays.

If some one causes grief through negligence, they must pay for their negligence. As to how, I won't go there.

Yeah, I dunno. I'm kind of over the whole 'hard punishment to go with a hard crime' thing - if punishment is still meant to be about prevention, then not too much really needs to be done here - it was a total accident, the occurrence itself may have some impact on the Hell Riders (lets hope!) and will certainly make the police more aware of them (possibly try and do something about it), and assuming the rider is feeling the way I imagine I would feel if I'd done that, well, he won't be a Hell Rider ever again.

So, I don't see the point of jail time. It's not like he's an overall menace to society or anything, he ran a red light, and he was unlucky.

Although, I suppose if a driver was fined $400 after running a red-ight and killing a cyclist I'd be beside myself, stereo-typing him as a classic anti-bike driver in a big 4WD and all that, so, yeah, I dunno.

Whilst I agree that tough punishment isn't always the answer, I wonder how much crime rates would rise if things were done differently. From what I remember, he purposefuly ran the red, as Ryan has stated. That means he knowingly put the public at risk and came up trumps. That deserves something, community service every weekend to the family for 20 years, I don't know. Maybe they should just give him to Ryan.

 

[Drew.]

WHAT THE FUCK!

I get $900 worth of fines for (X) reasons, just usual teenage stuff, and this cunt gets $400 for that?

fuck the police and the law. bunch of corrupt mother fuckers!

 

[arpit]

It seems fairly normal to me.

Police generally charge people with offences they KNOW can be proven, rather than offences which they have a high chance of proving. This means they like the simple, strict liability offences. They don't have to prove recklessness or intention. They just don't have the resources to do otherwise.


Thus, the defendsant went to court charged with an non-serious offence. The max penalty was 550 dollars. A court won't award a custodial sentence - that would be undemocratic. The wishes of the elected legislature must be adhered to.

As for not giving the maximum penalty, the article made it quite clear why that was - there were mitigating factors.

 

[demo man]

If we want respect and tolerance on our roads from drivers, we have to be seen to be held to the same standards of responsible driving that they are. Next time you're commuting in peak hour, consider the fact that the idiot who cuts you off or nearly kills you is probably thinking "Stupid bloody cyclists, don't pay taxes, don't follow the road rules AND get away with killing people".

I don't really agree with that. I mean, to me that sounds like using one guy for almost political reasons, rather than trying to create justice.
If you want justice, ban him from Hell-Rides, fine him for the traffic infringement, and know that he won't do it again. No point in causing more harm to more lives when it's not going to do anything useful - I don't think making 'examples' out of people is necessarily a good thing.

again, I'm not condoning what he did or trying to trivialise the death, my condolences to the family a friends of the poor man. what a crappy way to die eh.

I live on the Mornington Peninsula and regularly see the hell ride take place. The only thing i can liken it to is the running of the bulls, because once it starts it doesn't stop. When you have a stream of cyclists over 100m long half of them aren't even aware of a red light when one occurs. Knowing this I don't understand how that old man stepped in front of all those bikes at the pace they were going at. I mean if you were crossing a road and you saw a car that wasn't going to stop you wouldn't step out in front of it to prove a point would you? I do believe that the peanalty for the cyclist that struck the man was weak, but i also believe something should be done about the hell ride, and pedestrians common sense.

Yeah some good points there. Sounds like the whole Hell ride thing is a very dangerous thing that should be looked into by police, as it sounds like anyone of them could have hit the old man - why make one rider cop the blame when it was only chance he was the one out of the pack that hit the man.

 

[demo man]

That deserves something, community service every weekend to the family for 20 years, I don't know. Maybe they should just give him to Ryan.

That's a punishment that seems just to me.

I'm not trying to say he shouldn't be punished, just that I don't think usual punishment would be particularly useful here is all - except in deterring others perhaps, like other Hell-Riders, but like I said above, I'm not sure if I like the idea of making an example of someone when it's almost dumb luck they were the one who got caught out.

 

[Drew.]

Maybe they should just give him to Ryan.

Yeah. I hear pygmies have poison darts.

 

[Mojo]

i bet he had that awsome lawyer from boston legal on his case, man that guy can close. i feel so much warmer everytime i hear him write off the opposition

 

[arpit]

That's a punishment that seems just to me.

I'm not trying to say he shouldn't be punished, just that I don't think usual punishment would be particularly useful here is all - except in deterring others perhaps, like other Hell-Riders, but like I said above, I'm not sure if I like the idea of making an example of someone when it's almost dumb luck they were the one who got caught out.

Yeah, its the classic moral luck argument.
Two people drive to work, both speeding negligently. By pure chance, someone runs onto the road in front of one of the cars. The runner is killed. If the driver hadn't been driving negligently, he would have been able to avoid the collision.

Our law generally punishes the driver who crashes far more seriously than the driver who doesn't crash, purely due to their bad luck.

Logically, it is difficult to explain how the driver who crashes is more culpable than the driver who isn't.

I think that the people who are calling for a jail sentence underestimate the consequences of a non-custodial sentence. They can be very serious indeed. I'm not arguing that a 400 dollar fine was appropriate ; I am arguing that a custodial sentence would be inappropriate.